Author Topic: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)  (Read 23141 times)

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Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2009, 06:21:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I Beg to Differ, The Magic/Bird rivalry was great for the game no question, but it was a product built from their college rivalry and really didn't increase the image internationally. Jordan did, he really made the game a true international success. Through endorsements no question, but being the most well known member of the dream team at the '92 olympics. Jordans' games of the 90's were the first true exposure to NBA basketball and the reason I can see every single game of a Domestic league from the other side of the world live from my computer and TV. The NBA owes plenty to having a player like Jordan for making their product an international success story. I think most international fans will agree with me on this.

I don't know where to begin to say how historically inaccurate and just plain wrong this statement is. In 1980, when Magic and Larry first hit the NBA and their 1979 rivalry from the NCAA Championship hit the NBA, the NBA was maybe the 4th most popular sport on television. Understand this, at the same time the NHL was still a very popular sport and was getting nationally televised games.

Now, remember, this is before ESPN, before 500 different channels, before the internet or fantasy sports or the cell phone. Following the Celtics or any other NBA team on a daily basis meant going to games or listening to Johnny Most on the radio or reading the newspaper the next day. There was no station televising every single Celtics game. That didn't exist.

But what did exist was the NBA on CBS on Sunday afternoons. And their ability to televise the emerging rivalry of two young and completely different players and the tremendous growth of talent and athleticism throughout the league, got bigger and bigger and bigger ratings every week and then year. Eventually CBS gave the NBA a huge contract to televise their games.

Simultaneously, the technology of cable television took off worldwide and one of the programs that would be shown in repeat versions across the world was the NBA on CBS and young players across the world suddenly became huge Larry and Magic fans and Celtics and Lakers fans. The popularity of the NBA soared in the US and worldwide kids stopped playing soccer and started playing basketball.

Ask the greatest of the greatest foreign players why they decided to play basketball instead of soccer or who inspired them and the answer is always Bird and Magic or Celtics and lakers. Olajuwan, Motumbo, Schremp, Smits, Sabonis, Stojakovic, Petrovic, Nowitski, Kokoc, Nash, Divac, Ilgauskas, Turkoglu, Radja, Diaw, and Muresan all will say that their influences were from the Bird/Magic era.

Bird and Magic sparked interest in the game of basketball worldwide like no other. The quality of basketball play overseas was sparked by these players. Before their exposure to a generation of foreign stars at an early age, the NBA was just an American phenomenon, much like the NFL of the 90's. Without Bird and Magic and cable television and the NBA on CBS introducing a generation of foreign children to basketball, Michael Jordan and Nike would have had no one to sell to but the American public.

The Dream Team idea was more about Team USA losing international basketball events because we only sent college players. Before, that was okay because the foreign competition was pathetic and our amateur college players could kill other countries. But because of Bird and Magic's influences, the foreign game got better because the best athletes abroad gave up on soccer and started playing basketball. That generation started making the foreign national squads in the mid to late 80's and they started beating the Americans.

Team USA couldn't put up with that anymore. Foreign countries sent their professionals to international sporting competitions so the USA decided that it was time we stopped losing these national competitions and take back our sport, basketball. That MJ was part of the team was huge, as he was then the league's biggest star.

But the foreign ticket buying audience that watched the Dream Team was there for their childhood heroes, Larry and Magic. Larry at the time had a bad back and the concept of the Dream Team almost feel through because Larry almost had to pull out. If he did, word was Magic would pull out too and the marketing and sale of this Team was going to fall apart. Overseas, the DRAW was Larry and Magic. That's who were the big draws.

So you see, without Larry and magic, MJ doesn't have a worldwide marketplace to sell Nike products to. He doesn't have the influx of foreign talent that helped to grow the NBA. He wouldn't have even had the Dream Team as the entire project was centered around the aging superstars that were giant icons overseas.

That is the history of what happened and it needs to be understood for young people to understand just what really happened and who was responsible for what.

Michael Jordan was, without a doubt, one of the greatest basketball players that ever lived. Real old timers will say he was Oscar Robertson in a watered down league and if the Big O had played in an expansion league with 26 teams he would have won 5 MVPs and 6 titles as well. He might be, might be, the best ever but that is extremely debatable.

What he was was the best all-time single marketed NBA basketball player ever. With the expansion of worldwide markets and with Larry and Magic opening those markets, he brought a ton of cash into the game and into the pockets of other players. But his legacy is no more or less important than those that came before him.

He deserves his number retired in Chicago. But he is not a figure like Jackie Robinson who transformed an entire society and succeeded and excelled where no others had ever tread. He did not change the way an entire race was perceived or opened up opportunities for millions.

Michael showed the very select few who followed him who are able to play NBA basketball how to make gobs and gobs of cash. That's his great, non playing accomplishment to the game. He made it richer. But without the accomplishments of those that came previously, he might not ever have had that happen.

Younger fans need to understand that Michael is one of the best ever but he deserves no more or less accolades than any other NBA player that was also one of the best ever. Like Cousy, Russell, West, Chamberlain, Robinson, Jabbar, Walton, Bird, Johnson or Erving.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:36:42 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2009, 06:33:10 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Bird and Magic also helped ESPN. In 1979, ESPN was being planned and was to go on the air in the fall. They signed a deal to televise the early rounds of the NCAA, which weren't on tv at that tome. Shortly after they signed the deal, the 1979 NCAA tournament took place. They key match-up: Magic versus Bird. Highest rated college game ever and the event credited with creating March Madness. What was ESPN's early popularity built on? College basketball.

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2009, 06:37:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Bird and Magic also helped ESPN. In 1979, ESPN was being planned and was to go on the air in the fall. They signed a deal to televise the early rounds of the NCAA, which weren't on tv at that tome. Shortly after they signed the deal, the 1979 NCAA tournament took place. They key match-up: Magic versus Bird. Highest rated college game ever and the event credited with creating March Madness. What was ESPN's early popularity built on? College basketball.
True dat.

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2009, 06:44:30 PM »

Offline jackson_34

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I Beg to Differ, The Magic/Bird rivalry was great for the game no question, but it was a product built from their college rivalry and really didn't increase the image internationally. Jordan did, he really made the game a true international success. Through endorsements no question, but being the most well known member of the dream team at the '92 olympics. Jordans' games of the 90's were the first true exposure to NBA basketball and the reason I can see every single game of a Domestic league from the other side of the world live from my computer and TV. The NBA owes plenty to having a player like Jordan for making their product an international success story. I think most international fans will agree with me on this.

I don't know where to begin to say how historically inaccurate and just plain wrong this statement is. In 1980, when Magic and Larry first hit the NBA and their 1979 rivalry from the NCAA Championship hit the NBA, the NBA was maybe the 4th most popular sport on television. Understand this, at the same time the NHL was still a very popular sport and was getting nationally televised games.

Now, remember, this is before ESPN, before 500 different channels, before the internet or fantasy sports or the cell phone. Following the Celtics or any other NBA team on a daily basis meant going to games or listening to Johnny Most on the radio or reading the newspaper the next day. There was no station televising every single Celtics game. That didn't exist.

But what did exist was the NBA on CBS on Sunday afternoons. And their ability to bring the emerging rivalry of two young and completely different players and the tremendous growth of talent and athleticism throughout the league got bigger and bigger and bigger ratings every week and then year. Eventually CBS gave the NBA a huge contract to televise their games.

The technology of cable television took off worldwide and one of the programs that would be shown in repeat versions across the world was the NBA on CBS and young players across the world suddenly became huge Larry and Magic fans and Celtics and Lakers fans. The popularity of the NBA soared in the US and worldwide kids stopped playing soccer and started playing basketball.

Ask the greatest of the greatest foreign players why they decided to play basketball instead of soccer or who inspired them and the answer is always Bird and Magic or Celtics and lakers. Olajuwan, Motumbo, Schremp, Smits, Stojakovic, Petrovic, Nowitski, Kokoc, Nash, Divac, Ilgauskas, Turkoglu, Radja, Diaw, and Muresan all will say that their influences were from the Bird/Magic era.

Bird and Magic sparked interest in the game of basketball worldwide like no other. The quality of basketball play overseas was sparked by these players. Before their exposure to a generation of foreign star at an early age, the NBA was just an American phenomenon, much like the NFL of the 90's. Without Bird and Magic and cable television and the NBA on CBS introducing a generation of foreign children to basketball, Michael Jordan and Nike would have had no one to sell to but the American public.

The Dream Team was more about Team USA losing international basketball events because we only sent college players. Before, that was okay because the foreign competition was pathetic and our amateur college players could kill other countries. But because of Bird and Magic influences, the foreign game got better because the best athletes abroad gave up on soccer and started playing basketball. That generation started making the foreign national squads in the mid to late 80's and they started beating them Americans.

Team USA couldn't put up with that anymore. Foreign countries sent their professionals to international competitions so the USA decided that it was time we stopped losing these national competitions and take back our sport, basketball. That MJ was part of the team was huge as he was then the league's biggest star.

But the foreign ticket buying audience that watched the Dream Team was there for their childhood heroes Larry and Magic. Larry at the time had a bad back and the concept almost feel through because Larry almost had to pull out. If he did, word was Magic would pull out too and the marketing and sale of this Team was going to fall apart. Overseas, the DRAW was Larry and Magic. That's who were the big draws.

So you see, without Larry and magic, MJ doesn't have a worldwide marketplace to sell Nike products to. He doesn't have the influx of foreign talent that helped to grow the NBA. he wouldn't have even had the Dream Team as the entire project was centered around the aging superstars that were giant icons overseas.

That is the history of what happened and it needs to be understood for young people to understand just what really happened and who was responsible for what.

Michael Jordan was, without a doubt, one of the greatest basketball players that ever lived. Real old timers will say he was Oscar Robertson in a watered down league and if the Big O had played in an expansion league with 26 teams he would have won 5 MVPs and 6 titles as well. He might be, might be the best ever but that is extremely debatable.

He was the best all-time single marketed NBA basketball player ever. With the expansion of worldwide markets and with Larry and Magic opening those markets he brought a ton of cash into the game and into the pockets of other players. But his legacy is no more or less important than those that came before him.

He deserves his number retired in Chicago. But he is not a figure like Jackie Robinson who transformed an entire society and succeeded and excelled where no others had ever tread. He did not change the way an entire race was perceived or opened up opportunities for millions.

Michael showed the very select few who are able to play NBA basketball who followed him how to make gobs and gobs of cash. That's his great, non playing accomplishment to the game. He made it richer. But with the accomplishments of those that came previously, he might not ever have had that happen.

Younger fans need to understand that Michael is one of the best ever but he deserves no more or less accolades than any other NBA player that was also one of the best ever. Like Cousy, Russell, West, Chamberlain, Robinson, Jabbar, Walton, Bird, Johnson or Erving.

Well I guess I have my facts wrong, but as child of the 90's all I ever saw basketball wise on TV was that CBS game of the week showing mostly the Bulls games, in Australia at least the rise of the games popularity (attendance and viewing wise) was due to in the most part Jordan there is no question. I knew who Bird and Magic were but they didn't have the phenominal exposure (hard to believe) as Jordan.

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2009, 07:27:44 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I'm sure I have nothing to say about this that hasn't already been said, but I've just gotta vent: LeBron James is being ludicrous. Larry and Magic had already revived the NBA before Jordan came along, and Bill Russell's where it all started for blacks in the NBA.
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Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2009, 07:36:12 PM »

Offline Kwhit10

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LeBron is not changing his number for tribute to MJ.  Last night he realized that Miami already retired #23, so next year when he goes to Miami he wouldn't be able to wear it anyways.  So he just made up this excuse.

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2009, 07:50:31 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I'd like to backtrack just a little and I may get a little slack for it but so be it.   Bill Russell was a great winner and one of the greatest winners.   I wasn't alive during that era however I know he won his championships in a league that ranged from 8 to 14 teams during his time and played with several hall of famers in a non salary cap era that helped his cause.  If Jordan didn't take his 2 year hiatus it's quite possible he could have won 8 titles in a row, in a 30 team league, in the salary cap era, with just 1 hall of famer playing alongside him.  

Now with that said I'm not saying Jordan is the greatest winner just saying there is argument for debate.  

I'm with the group that Jordan did not help the NBA at the extent of Bird and Magic.  I was too young to remember the pre Bird/Magic era however the history books show the NBA was in woeful shape in the 70s with attendance and drug problems.   Much worse shape than when Jordan ascended into stardom.  

Now as a kid in the 80s I remember all everyone wanted to talk about was Bird verse Magic Celtics verse Lakers.   The NBA was back on the map after falling off in the 70s.   Jordan just made the map bigger.

I totally disagree that Jordan should have his number retired league wide because in some peoples minds he is the greatest ever.   Should Ruth's number, Gretzky's number, Jim Brown's number be retired league wide in their respective leagues.  No pure stupidity.  



Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2009, 07:54:41 PM »

Offline jdub1660

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Okay. Totally not defending Lebron, but I bet the no.6 was a coincidence. And not that it's enough, but Bill Russel does have the finals MVP trophy named after him, and Jerry West has the logo. Lebron clearly isn't a big Russel fan not to know about his no 6 jersey. BUT...

Let me put it here first! _ I think Lebron goes to Chicago next year. I think the whole jersey thing might have been some sort preliminary "let me get out of this before it starts" kinda thing so he can go to Chicago, be great, but not ever be Jordan as no 23. There he'll end up with Dwade too, and they'll be sick duo. Also expect the Bulls to trade a contract or 2 to make room, b/c right now they have about 30 mil expiring...
Can't stop, Rondo!

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2009, 08:03:01 PM »

Offline Stu

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I totally disagree that Jordan should have his number retired league wide because in some peoples minds he is the greatest ever.   Should Ruth's number, Gretzky's number, Jim Brown's number be retired league wide in their respective leagues.  No pure stupidity.  


Actually, Gretzky's number has been retired by the NHL: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/star00/full37.htm

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2009, 08:27:47 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I totally disagree that Jordan should have his number retired league wide because in some peoples minds he is the greatest ever.   Should Ruth's number, Gretzky's number, Jim Brown's number be retired league wide in their respective leagues.  No pure stupidity.  


Actually, Gretzky's number has been retired by the NHL: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/star00/full37.htm

oops.  TP.  Well I still don't agree.  It should be left up to the teams whether or not a number should be retired. 

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2009, 08:30:51 PM »

Offline BirdNerd

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There are very few current pro athletes that appreciate the history of their sport.    And Lebron and his generation were only born in 80s, Jordan is their only point of reference.   And why should they be shrewd historians, these guys are busy working on their games trying to be the best they can be, working out, studying CURRENT film.   Its full time, and they put in much more than the avg fan realizes.    And when they're not putting in the work, they're hanging out like typical dudes in their 20s.  

It may come as a surprise, but these guys are not hanging out in blogs, reading historical NBA references, analyzing the game like a fan.    Some do, but most are LIVING the game.    

That said, its a knucklehead statement in that the "King" is trying to impose his agenda on others, and there is absolutely some reason for it, for his personal gain.  

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2009, 09:16:31 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'd make a deal with the league. You retire Bird and Russell's number for the entire league and we'll retire 23.

"Citing respect for MJ, LeBron wants to shed No. 23"
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2009, 02:04:15 PM »

Offline ACF

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Re: "Citing respect for MJ, LeBron wants to shed No. 23"
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2009, 02:07:51 PM »

Offline crownsy

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http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/13/lebron.jersey.ap/index.html

I like the idea. Thoughts?

I don't mind the sentiment but he's going about it in a typical lebron diva way.

1. Why does EVERYONE have to change from 23 because lebron wants to?

2. is logic is flawed. Follow his thought process here. People wearing 23 is a sign of disrespect to MJ. Lebron want's to switch to 6 to honor doctor J.

Wait....what? won't this dishonor doctor J, a man who lebron cites as one of the greats in the article?

3. Lebron claims to be "a great historian of the game" yet doesn't seem to realize that 6 is Bill Russell's number. A man who won 11 championships, defined team player, and went on to be an important leader for the African American community in breaking the color barrier in coaching.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2009, 02:13:05 PM »

Offline ACF

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Ah, someone already posted this. Sorry.