Apparently Lebron James Thinks Basketball Started in 1984 (Merged)

[PosImpos]

LeBron is not changing his number for tribute to MJ.  Last night he realized that Miami already retired #23, so next year when he goes to Miami he wouldn't be able to wear it anyways.  So he just made up this excuse.

Very astute! TP

[Donoghus]

Sounds like the NBA has some sanity on this issue.

NEW YORK (AP) -- LeBron James may persuade NBA players to give up their No. 23s, but a leaguewide retirement of Michael Jordan's number seems unlikely.

James said on Thursday that he is considering switching his number next season and wants other players to do the same in honor of Jordan, the Hall of Famer who is often regarded as the league's best player ever.

Major League Baseball retired Jackie Robinson's No. 42 and the NHL did the same with Wayne Gretzky's No. 99, but that hasn't been done in the NBA. Spokesman Tim Frank said on Saturday that "retiring a player's number is a decision that has been made by the teams" and not the league.

The NBA has no policy preventing every player wearing No. 23 from petitioning for a change, but players generally have to wear a number five years before they can switch.

There are 13 No. 23s in the NBA, though James is the only superstar. Oklahoma City rookie Byron Mullens ended up with the number after finding his preferred No. 32 was retired by the organization for Seattle SuperSonics great Fred Brown, and would be open to a switch.

"I don't have a problem," Mullens said. "I'm a rookie so I don't have no say-so. It's Jordan, man. His number should be retired from the NBA. If it is, then congratulations and good for him. If it's not, then I guess I'll stick to it. I was kidding around with my teammates, though. I told them, 'Jordan's going to have to pay me out."'

Knicks rookie Toney Douglas wasn't so sure, saying he's worn No. 23 since he was 3 years old because Jordan was his favorite player.

"It really doesn't matter to me what he said about the number thing. I don't really have no comment about it to tell you the truth," he told reporters Friday. "I've had that number my whole life, since I was 3 years old. Of course I'm going to want that every time out."

Any players wanting to switch would have to officially notify the league by early March. James, who said he would probably change to No. 6, his number with the U.S. Olympic team, would not need permission to change if he leaves Cleveland as a free agent.

James first made his comments during an on-air interview on TNT following the Cavaliers' victory over the Heat. Jordan was at the game in Miami -- where Heat president Pat Riley retired the number in 2003 even though he never played for the franchise. No Miami player has worn No. 23 since Cedric Ceballos in 2001.

Lakers coach Phil Jackson, who coached Jordan in Chicago, endorsed the idea, though noted it might be "a little step on the toes for a guy like Magic (Johnson) or (Larry) Bird."

That seems to be one reason for disagreement with James' plan. Charles Barkley said after James' interview that Johnson and Bird "had a greater impact on the game than Michael Jordan."

Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy believes there are too many other deserving players besides Jordan to start retiring numbers.

"Pretty soon our players will be wearing 373. All the two-digit numbers will be taken," he said.

The other players wearing No. 23 are: Kevin Martin (Sacramento), Stephen Graham (Charlotte), C.J. Watson (Golden State), Marcus Camby (Los Angeles Clippers), Jodie Meeks (Milwaukee), Devin Brown (New Orleans), Lou Williams (Philadelphia), Jason Richardson (Phoenix), Martell Webster (Portland) and Wesley Matthews (Utah).

[Jay G]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/14/jordan.23.ap/index.html

Any players wanting to switch would have to officially notify the league by early March. James, who said he would probably change to No. 6, his number with the U.S. Olympic team, would not need permission to change if he leaves Cleveland as a free agent.

"Pat Riley made it known years back, when he said that every team should retire Michael Jordan's number," said Detroit's Richard Hamilton, who played with Jordan in Washington. "He's the most dominant player that every played the game, the most exciting player that ever played the game. Nobody changed the game like he did."

Do i even have to say anything?

[chelsearules]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml1X03_MjF4

[Hila]

I think Bill Russell has done more for the Celtic Franchise than anyone not named Red.

But Jordan has done more for the game of basketball and more for the NBA than any other player, period.

If any player deserves to have his old jersey number retired throughout the league, it's Jordan.

Jordan did more for the Bulls and Nike than any player not named Jordan.  He was the first commercial juggernaut for the NBA and was his decade's most dominant player.  He made more money than anyone before and raised the amount players could make with shoes and endorsements.

As for contributions to the league, Bird and Magic did more for the league than Jordan.  The league was in far worse shape when they arrived and made it into national tv.  They brought a ton of college fans to the NBA with their rivalry.  Bill Russell did more historically than Jordan, being the first black head coach in major sports and winning a crazy number of titles.  Jordan's number should be retired by the Bulls, not by the rest of the league. 

I know this is a young versus old debate, with the guys who grew up watching Jordan struggling to imagine why people would disagree, so let me put it this way, say the Lakers go on a crazy run, stay healthy, and are blessed with divine grace to win four more championships (five in a row).  Do we all of a sudden retire Kobe's number league wide for his contributions to the sport? 

   

I Beg to Differ, The Magic/Bird rivalry was great for the game no question, but it was a product built from their college rivalry and really didn't increase the image internationally. Jordan did, he really made the game a true international success. Through endorsements no question, but being the most well known member of the dream team at the '92 olympics. Jordans' games of the 90's were the first true exposure to NBA basketball and the reason I can see every single game of a Domestic league from the other side of the world live from my computer and TV. The NBA owes plenty to having a player like Jordan for making their product an international success story. I think most international fans will agree with me on this.

Did that team need Jordan though?  He was the star who took front stage on it and the one that tried to grab the headlines (the covering the logo with the flag still irks me a bit).  But that team with out him would have grabbed as much attention.   It signaled to the world that the US professionals were miles better than anyone else. Our winning margin might have gone down by 4 points, but they still would have destroyed everyone.  I think this is more of an age/exposure to the sport thing.   

Read about some of the basketball clinics the pro teams (including the Celtics) went on years before to spread the sport internationally.  There were a lot of goodwill trips that taught local coaches and players the game well before those Olympic games.     

That's sort of the point I am trying to make, he did take the limelight on a team with 10 of the 50 greatest players on it. The dream team wasn't just Jordan obviously, but if you asked an average person what basketball player they knew from that team, I'd say the majority would point to Jordan. (This is coming from an International viewpoint, of course )

The International Camps are all well and good, but they didn't bring the NBA to the mainstream conscience of world like Jordan did in the 90's. The mass selling of nike and subsequently the Jordan brand, The showing of NBA games abroad the Dream Team of the 92 olympics all have one thing in common, can you guess what that is? 

(Just to clarify, I am fully aware the legacy players like Robinson, Russel, Magic and Bird brought to the NBA and sport in general in the U.S., my point is being made by its progression to a Global game like football.) 

Slightly off topic, but I found that very interesting because I don't especially remember Jordan out-shining the rest of the Dream Team. Yes, he and his allegiance to Nike were one storyline, but I thought it was pretty much shared with a last hurrah for Magic/Bird, the absence of Isiah Thomas, the fact that pros were going at all, and Charles Barkley's mouth. From a viewpoint within the US, I thought Sir Charles was the biggest star and got the most marketing out of those Olympics.

I do agree that Jordan was the greatest of that era and of all time. But there's a thing about being greatest of all time... "all time" really means "thus far." If Jordan is going to get something for being the greatest of thus far, so should those who preceded him as greatest, including Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, Dr. J, Magic, Bird, etc., etc. Alternatively, when someone surpasses Jordan as greatest of thus far, Jordan should be stripped of the retired number and the new greatest of thus far should have his number retired everywhere. Except that would be stupid. As is the idea of retiring 23 everywhere to begin with.

[greg683x]

I'm gonna throw my name in the hat with the folks that say NO ONE should have their number retired league wide.  The Van Gundy comment in the article says it best, if were gonna start doing this, then where does it stop?  Jordan being the greatest player ever in the NBA is a topic of opinion and debate, and even though the majority favors it being Jordan, thats always subject to change.

I know lots of people scoff at the idea of someone ever being better than Jordan, but it CAN happen.  So then we'd have to retire that guys number, then the next guy and so on, and find reasons to retire other players numbers.

It only works in cases like Jackie Robinson in baseball because you cant argue that some guy broke the color barrier better than he did, because it doesnt make any sense.  Thats 100% true and is not subject to change, not to mention the color barrier is much bigger deal on so many more levels.

....and not to mention that as egotistical as Lebron is, I'm sure in the back of his mind some where he's made himself aware of the fact that if he got Jordans number retired league wide, he could open to the door for his to be retired once his careers over some day.

[Bahku]

I'm gonna throw my name in the hat with the folks that say NO ONE should have their number retired league wide.  The Van Gundy comment in the article says it best, if were gonna start doing this, then where does it stop?  Jordan being the greatest player ever in the NBA is a topic of opinion and debate, and even though the majority favors it being Jordan, thats always subject to change.

I know lots of people scoff at the idea of someone ever being better than Jordan, but it CAN happen.  So then we'd have to retire that guys number, then the next guy and so on, and find reasons to retire other players numbers.

It only works in cases like Jackie Robinson in baseball because you cant argue that some guy broke the color barrier better than he did, because it doesnt make any sense.  Thats 100% true and is not subject to change, not to mention the color barrier is much bigger deal on so many more levels.

....and not to mention that as egotistical as Lebron is, I'm sure in the back of his mind some where he's made himself aware of the fact that if he got Jordans number retired league wide, he could open to the door for his to be retired once his careers over some day.

Thanks, Greg ... you just saved me a bunch of typing. This is such a bad idea on so many levels ... and it's such an obvious Nike stroke-fest. Really hope it's not even seriously considered. (TP)

[seeingreen34]

I'm gonna throw my name in the hat with the folks that say NO ONE should have their number retired league wide.  The Van Gundy comment in the article says it best, if were gonna start doing this, then where does it stop?  Jordan being the greatest player ever in the NBA is a topic of opinion and debate, and even though the majority favors it being Jordan, thats always subject to change.

I know lots of people scoff at the idea of someone ever being better than Jordan, but it CAN happen.  So then we'd have to retire that guys number, then the next guy and so on, and find reasons to retire other players numbers.

It only works in cases like Jackie Robinson in baseball because you cant argue that some guy broke the color barrier better than he did, because it doesnt make any sense.  Thats 100% true and is not subject to change, not to mention the color barrier is much bigger deal on so many more levels.

....and not to mention that as egotistical as Lebron is, I'm sure in the back of his mind some where he's made himself aware of the fact that if he got Jordans number retired league wide, he could open to the door for his to be retired once his careers over some day.

Thanks, Greg ... you just saved me a bunch of typing. This is such a bad idea on so many levels ... and it's such an obvious Nike stroke-fest. Really hope it's not even seriously considered. (TP)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/star00/full37.htm

Wayne Gretzky's number is retired league wide in the NHL. I think he also falls into the "greatest ever, but debatable" category with Jordan, unlike Jackie Robinson. This was the only time. But then again, I don't know if anyone else should be since I'm not really a hockey fan.

Also, Jackie Robinson's number being retired is more about race than anything else and it can be argued "if we retire the first African-American's number then why not first hispanic, first asian, etc.?" In the same year Jackie Robinson first played in the National League, Larry Doby was the first African-American to play in the American League, less than 3 months later. Larry Doby is in the hall of fame. So should his number be retired if not only in the American League?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1947a.shtml

I don't want to turn this post into a race debate or anything but I'm just pointing out other instances that go along with what Van Gundy said (is Jordan, then where does it stop?). It hasn't continued in hockey or baseball. Even for similar situations.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Lebron James is amazing.  Every time I start to come around and think "he's not that bad of a guy.." he says something like this. 

Unfortunately his "decision" is on par with what has happened in the league over the past decade, since Jordan's height.  Everything is forced, especially the marketing.  Rules are changed to help build star players, and jersey/shoe/etc sales are the driving force behind most motives these days.

I'd love it if Stern and the NBA just let things pan out because reality often times creates a much better drama than any forced script.  He doesn't realize that the storyline and marketability would become better as a result.

Having said that, Jordan's # should not be retired by the NBA, whatsoever.  Jordan had two major accomplishments, in order:

1)  He propelled the marketability of a player (not a team) to a level undreamed of at the time, and

2)  He won 6 championships. 

They are great accomplishments, but they aren't deserving of retiring his # for any team other than the Bulls & Nike.

[Donoghus]

Besides the fact that I'm totally against retiring Jordan's number league-wide, if this were ever done it would create a dangerous  dangerous precedent. 


What if, 20 years from now, another kid comes through and can be thrown into the greatest of all-time dicussion.  Perhaps, a compelling argument can be made that he's better than Jordan.

Then, what do you do?  You got yourselves a slippery slope.

Its a dumb idea, plain and simple and I'm glad that it appears the league has no interest in doing it.  (Not to mention its a slap in the face to those who came before Jordan that were the best in their respective eras)

[Redz]

Besides the fact that I'm totally against retiring Jordan's number league-wide, if this were ever done it would create a dangerous  dangerous precedent. 


What if, 20 years from now, another kid comes through and can be thrown into the greatest of all-time dicussion.  Perhaps, a compelling argument can be made that he's better than Jordan.

Then, what do you do?  You got yourselves a slippery slope.

Its a dumb idea, plain and simple and I'm glad that it appears the league has no interest in doing it.  (Not to mention its a slap in the face to those who came before Jordan that were the best in their respective eras)

Not to mention if the NBA is around in a thousand years.  They'll have to go to 3 digit numbers because all the low ones will have been retired.

(Celts have similar issues already  )

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm gonna throw my name in the hat with the folks that say NO ONE should have their number retired league wide.  The Van Gundy comment in the article says it best, if were gonna start doing this, then where does it stop?  Jordan being the greatest player ever in the NBA is a topic of opinion and debate, and even though the majority favors it being Jordan, thats always subject to change.

I know lots of people scoff at the idea of someone ever being better than Jordan, but it CAN happen.  So then we'd have to retire that guys number, then the next guy and so on, and find reasons to retire other players numbers.

It only works in cases like Jackie Robinson in baseball because you cant argue that some guy broke the color barrier better than he did, because it doesnt make any sense.  Thats 100% true and is not subject to change, not to mention the color barrier is much bigger deal on so many more levels.

....and not to mention that as egotistical as Lebron is, I'm sure in the back of his mind some where he's made himself aware of the fact that if he got Jordans number retired league wide, he could open to the door for his to be retired once his careers over some day.

Thanks, Greg ... you just saved me a bunch of typing. This is such a bad idea on so many levels ... and it's such an obvious Nike stroke-fest. Really hope it's not even seriously considered. (TP)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/star00/full37.htm

Wayne Gretzky's number is retired league wide in the NHL. I think he also falls into the "greatest ever, but debatable" category with Jordan, unlike Jackie Robinson. This was the only time. But then again, I don't know if anyone else should be since I'm not really a hockey fan.

I think the two differences between Gretzky and MJ are that 1) it's not really debatable that Gretzky is the best ever; and 2) very few players have traditionally worn #99.

[davemonsterband]

Lebron gives respect to the G.O.A.T. and gets grief for it? The numbers don't matter, they can go to 3 digits, it's just a matter of time. I think it's pretty cool.

[freshinthehouse]

In all fairness, the guy wasn’t born until December 30, 1984.

I don’t expect athletes to be historians of their respective sports. It’s great when you see it and enhances your appreciation as a fan, but I don’t think it should be expected.

In regards to the #23 thing, take it for what it’s worth, a twenty four year old saying that Jordan is the best ever and therefore he wants to institute a tribute to him.

This is a complimentary statement on Lebron’s part. I don’t see where it should be criticized. With a lot of other negative things happening in the NBA, I don’t view Lebron anointing MJ and Dr. J the best to be an insult or a sleight on someone else.

If he said “Bill Russell is the greatest of all time.” Chicago would resent him for not saying Jordan. LA would resent him for not saying Wilt, Jabbar, or Magic. Miami would resent him for not saying Seikley…maybe not the last one.

But, I look at this simply as a young player trying to pay compliments to his idols. Nothing but good stuff if you ask me…

Thank you.  I was waiting for common sense to kick in. 

If you asked the league what number michael jordan wore, 99% of the players would know the answer.  if you asked them what number Bill Russell wore, i'd guess around 10% would know (and that's being generous).

Bill Russell hasn't played pro basketball in over 40 years.  None of these guys saw him play.  None of these guys grew up idolizing him.  You know who most of these guys grew up idolizing?  Michael Jordan.

This thread seems like a real reach to find yet another thing about Lebron James to complain about.

[moiso]

Someone with a green colored 23 would seem to have nothing to do with MJ.  His number should be retired in Chicago only.