Patriots vs Colts (11/15/09)

[Toine43]

Colts-Saints SB = Cavs-Lakers Finals.  The NFL will find ways to make it happen.

Wait - a Cavs-Lakers final happened? When?

[LB3533]

I think that application of the"bobbling" rule is really stupid. It basically cost the Pats the game on a technicality. Also, I thought the initial spot sucked whether or not they moved it after a challenge (did that happen? I missed that part of the game).

I don't think it's a technicality.  Where did he catch the ball? 

They said on TV that the play was reviewed, but I didn't see any announcement or anything to that effect.

Isn't it true that every catch has to be "completed" or "finished" after the receiver hits the ground?

If so, then "forward progress" should never be given out, the yard gained should be "at the spot" where the receiver lands or is "downed".

[xmuscularghandix]

I think that application of the"bobbling" rule is really stupid. It basically cost the Pats the game on a technicality. Also, I thought the initial spot sucked whether or not they moved it after a challenge (did that happen? I missed that part of the game).

I don't think it's a technicality.  Where did he catch the ball? 

They said on TV that the play was reviewed, but I didn't see any announcement or anything to that effect.

Isn't it true that every catch has to be "completed" or "finished" after the receiver hits the ground?

If so, then "forward progress" should never be given out, the yard gained should be "at the spot" where the receiver lands or is "downed".

Agree, even if they gave him the forward progress (which i would have liked) i would have thought it was soft.

[Rondo2287]

This was basically the '06 AFC title game condensed into 4.5 minutes of football, minus the refs essentially handing the Colts the game with two atrocious calls.  Or, it could also be the Grady Little game v2.0, but the key decision more defensible (leaving Pedro in vs going for it on 4th and 2) and on a smaller scale.  I am really confused.

I dunno, I am perfectly ok with the decision to go for it.  Do you want the ball in your best players hands with the game on the line or the colts best players hands.  Let alone the fact that they should have gotten the first down.  It was one of those plays where if it works hes the hero, doesnt hes the goat. 

especially after seeing the colts go 80 yards with no time outs in what like 1:50 the drive before?  Course that was aided with the phantom Pass interference call on Butler.  But still the Pats completely outplayed them for 56 minutes.  I think we should have confidence that they can do it again in the playoffs. 

[twistedrico]

The Patriots defense is going to kill them when its said and done. NOT a super bowl team.

[Rondo2287]

The Patriots defense is going to kill them when its said and done. NOT a super bowl team.

They were the second ranked defense in the league going into last night and held that colts to 21 points for the first 56 minutes.  And that was with some key injuries.  Turnovers in the Red Zone really lost that game.  You dont win many when you come out with no points in the red zone twice.

[Roy Hobbs]

I've seen at least two Pats fans complain about that pass interference call.  Really?  The video is below (starting at around the 4:25 mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC2YecIx8u8

I don't get it.  Doesn't Butler clearly try to clear out Collie, and in fact physically moves him? 

[Rondo2287]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

He knocked the guy back a half-yard before going for the ball, though.  Basically, he used Collie as leverage to make a lunge at the ball (which he missed).

[Rondo2287]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

He knocked the guy back a half-yard before going for the ball, though.  Basically, he used Collie as leverage to make a lunge at the ball (which he missed).

I thought Collie jumped into him and iniated the contact.  But my work blocks videos so i cant watch, so Im going off what I saw at midnight

[Roy Hobbs]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

He knocked the guy back a half-yard before going for the ball, though.  Basically, he used Collie as leverage to make a lunge at the ball (which he missed).

I thought Collie jumped into him and iniated the contact.  But my work blocks videos so i cant watch, so Im going off what I saw at midnight

I don't see it that way, and when Al Michaels (I think) was at first suggesting he "jumped" into him, it made no sense, since Collie's feet are on the ground when contact is made.  I've never seen a player running, and then somehow have the ability to jump backward without coming to a full stop first (which Collie didn't).

As I see it, Collie slowed up a little, and Butler basically elbowed him out of the way.  It was far from a phantom call; he knocked the guy back about a half-yard before attempting to make a play on the ball.

[Rondo2287]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

He knocked the guy back a half-yard before going for the ball, though.  Basically, he used Collie as leverage to make a lunge at the ball (which he missed).

I thought Collie jumped into him and iniated the contact.  But my work blocks videos so i cant watch, so Im going off what I saw at midnight

I don't see it that way, and when Al Michaels (I think) was at first suggesting he "jumped" into him, it made no sense, since Collie's feet are on the ground when contact is made.

As I see it, Collie slowed up a little, and Butler basically elbowed him out of the way.  It was far from a phantom call; he knocked the guy back about a half-yard before attempting to make a play on the ball.

But wasnt he facing the ball?  In otherwords if he was the receiver would it have been called offensive?  And how many seconds in the video before the flag comes in?

[Roy Hobbs]

Turned around though and was trying to make a play on the ball.  As much as i know the rule when you turn your back and are looking at the ball you have the as much of a right to the ball as the receiver. 

He knocked the guy back a half-yard before going for the ball, though.  Basically, he used Collie as leverage to make a lunge at the ball (which he missed).

I thought Collie jumped into him and iniated the contact.  But my work blocks videos so i cant watch, so Im going off what I saw at midnight

I don't see it that way, and when Al Michaels (I think) was at first suggesting he "jumped" into him, it made no sense, since Collie's feet are on the ground when contact is made.

As I see it, Collie slowed up a little, and Butler basically elbowed him out of the way.  It was far from a phantom call; he knocked the guy back about a half-yard before attempting to make a play on the ball.

But wasnt he facing the ball?  In otherwords if he was the receiver would it have been called offensive?  And how many seconds in the video before the flag comes in?

If it was in reverse, I think that yes, that's the type of play that should be offensive pass interference.

On the video, it takes between 2 and 3 seconds for the flag to hit the field after the play.  I don't think that's an unreasonable time.  (The play occurs at 4:30-31, the flag is on the field at 4:33.)

[Rondo2287]

Here is the rule Roy, which is what im talking about with whether or not Butler is in position to, "play the ball."

Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.
(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.

[Roy Hobbs]

Here is the rule Roy, which is what im talking about with whether or not Butler is in position to, "play the ball."

Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.
(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.

It's kind of pointless to argue without you having access to the video, but he clears the receiver out of the way with his arm before the ball gets there.  You're not allowed to do that.  Subsection "d" and "f" essentially says you're not allowed to do that, even if making a play of the ball (which Butler wasn't yet.)