Patriots vs Colts (11/15/09)

[Atzar]

Don't know if this has been touched on, but for all the bashing of Bill, I haven't heard a lot about whether it was actually a first down or not.  While I'll concede that the ball was bobbled, Faulk had possession closer to the first down marker than the refs gave him credit for.  I don't know if it would've been enough, but it definitely would've been a enough for a measurement.  Thoughts?

That Faulk bobble and catch was most certainly a 1st.

If seen from the QB's view (Brady's) after the initial bobble by Faulk, he regains control and has both feet touching the ground as the Indy defensive player brings Faulk down to the ground.

Now that we've established Faulk as control after the initial bobble and that he has two feet on the ground we can proceed at see the play from the side line view and watch where Faulk's feet were on the field and, clearly both feet were passed the 1st down yellow marker.

Forward progress should have been given, it's always given when it is known or determined that the receiver "completes" or "finishes" the catch.

1st down all the way.

Field position is determined by the spot of the ball, not his feet.

Star, it's BELICHICK.  Not Bellicek.

Also...



I was looking for a shot of one of the wrestling chicks holding up a "Round 2" sign, but this gets the point across well enough, I think.

[Aeacus]

Don't know if this has been touched on, but for all the bashing of Bill, I haven't heard a lot about whether it was actually a first down or not.  While I'll concede that the ball was bobbled, Faulk had possession closer to the first down marker than the refs gave him credit for.  I don't know if it would've been enough, but it definitely would've been a enough for a measurement.  Thoughts?

That Faulk bobble and catch was most certainly a 1st.

If seen from the QB's view (Brady's) after the initial bobble by Faulk, he regains control and has both feet touching the ground as the Indy defensive player brings Faulk down to the ground.

Now that we've established Faulk as control after the initial bobble and that he has two feet on the ground we can proceed at see the play from the side line view and watch where Faulk's feet were on the field and, clearly both feet were passed the 1st down yellow marker.

Forward progress should have been given, it's always given when it is known or determined that the receiver "completes" or "finishes" the catch.

1st down all the way.

I think it was closer than they gave him but I didn't see him regaining control that quickly.  I think it would have been hard to overturn the spot much either way, but I only saw it 2 or three times.  There might have been a better angle, since I don't remember seeing a view over Brady's shoulder.  

That is why you really need to save at least one timeout though....    

[LB3533]

Don't know if this has been touched on, but for all the bashing of Bill, I haven't heard a lot about whether it was actually a first down or not.  While I'll concede that the ball was bobbled, Faulk had possession closer to the first down marker than the refs gave him credit for.  I don't know if it would've been enough, but it definitely would've been a enough for a measurement.  Thoughts?

That Faulk bobble and catch was most certainly a 1st.

If seen from the QB's view (Brady's) after the initial bobble by Faulk, he regains control and has both feet touching the ground as the Indy defensive player brings Faulk down to the ground.

Now that we've established Faulk as control after the initial bobble and that he has two feet on the ground we can proceed at see the play from the side line view and watch where Faulk's feet were on the field and, clearly both feet were passed the 1st down yellow marker.

Forward progress should have been given, it's always given when it is known or determined that the receiver "completes" or "finishes" the catch.

1st down all the way.

Field position is determined by the spot of the ball, not his feet.

Star, it's BELICHICK.  Not Bellicek.

Also...



I was looking for a shot of one of the wrestling chicks holding up a "Round 2" sign, but this gets the point across well enough, I think.

Both feet were passed the 1st down marker, he caught the ball in his chest, the ball is between both feet.

[star18]

I want to know when somebody like Trent Dilfer talks about Bellichick, that we ever see the same kind of talking about a particular call. Dilfer drilled Bellichick and embarrassed him publicly by his decision.  Yes there have been talks about calls in the past, in the last few years it seems everybody gave up and now always go by what is called and that is a change from how sports games used to be.   IMO if you don't talk about calls by refs like calls by coaches it will give the refs almost complete power over a ball game, because no one will question them.

IMO Game 3 of the 2009 World Series was a bigger game and had a bigger call than this Patriots Colts game.     Bellicheck had to deal with reporters, the media and people on TV, and everybody 2nd guessed and wondered what the other scenario would have been if Bellicheck only got the call "right". Everybody replays in their head what would have happened if Bellichek punted, but nobody replays in their head what would have happened if Cole Hamels kept his shoutout up until Posada's at bat.  Bellicheck is being held responsible, and grilled by the media in questioning, interviews the papers, etc.  And whether or not it was a first down, it was so close that they didn't give it to the Patriots.  It may have been a 1st down. Yet when A-Rod's camera home run is a mere inches even though that play is just as close as this 1st down play, they automatically give it to him with no 2nd guessing or questioning.  After Game 3 of the 2009 WS nobody talked about the camera play, they talked about how the Phillies faded.  And nobody gave a 2nd guess about where the Phillies could have been in the ball game if the play was ruled a double.  When Bellicheck was questioned by the media, he was basically being asked questions already assuming his guilt and responsibility in the call.  Yet when Gerry Davis was questioned by the media, the media backed off any possible 2nd guessing or questioning and took Gerry Davis's word as gold, 100% the truth.

[Cman]

For what its worth, now Wetzel is chiming in on Bill's side
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkOUDENIZ4ikHNsB_cDKN6pDubYF?slug=dw-belichickpats111609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

One thing he says bears repeating:

Let’s mention a few other things. No one play wins or loses a 60-minute football game. The Patriots twice turned the ball over in the Colts; end zone – one a Brady interception, one a Laurence Maroney(notes) goal-line fumble. Avoid that and the game is over. There are 50 other examples.

[Bahku]

I have to admit, if the Pats had made first down on that play, we'd all be praising Bill for his "genius" and gutsy calls ... unfortunately, it wasn't to be, and in retrospect, (which is easy for us), it was a terrible call, because it ultimately cost us the game. On the upside, though, we'll be seeing Indy again soon, and we'll be the "underdogs" ... I like that.