Thabeet and Carroll for Perkins and Giddens

[Eeyore III]

Perk actually defends people.  Thabeet looks like he's going to be far closer to a Chris Andersen type than a Dikembe Mutombo type.  No way.  And why take a long term gamble that would waste the title oportunities that we have the next couple of years?

Ecch!  Don't defame Chris Andersen.  I watch every Grizzlies game (I know, I know ...) and can say that Thabeet is "El Busto II."  The Shawn Bradley comparison was better.  He is a total statue.  Heisley, the meddling cheapskate Griz owner (Donald Sterling East), insisted that the team take him, over the objections of every b-ball guy on the staff.  Thabeet at #2 makes the Darko and (Stro') Swift #2 picks pale into insignificance, in terms of total incompetence.

 

[BballTim]

Perk is 6th in the league in blocks.

Perk is 3rd in the league in blocks per minute among starters.

Perk is second in the league in blocks per foul.

Perk is now being given credit by opposing coaches as being an All-Defense candidate.

Perk is one of the best one on one low post defenders in the game.

Perk has a good developing low post offensive game with his jump hook, turn around jumper and Kevin McHale head fake, three step, over and under lay in.

Against Dwight Howard, one on one, in a seven game series Perk went for 11 points, 12 boards and 2.5 blocks per game while holding Howard to 6 points below his post season average and 10 percentage points below his post season FG%. Every other team in the league the Magic played doubled Howard in the playoffs and he had better stats.

Perk is 24 years old today, HAPPY BIRTHDAY PERK, and is a 7 year vet.

Thabeet is tall.

  Yes, but in Thabeet's defense, he's really tall. By the time Paul and Kevin are ready to retire he might be able to contribute to a playoff run...

[colincb]

Nobody's fooling who here.

I just wish all the posters here and our beloved team very well in the games to come. I wish you're all right.

The mismatch against Bynum and Gasol will be there however. Their team is the league's yardstick for success. We used to hold that after we beat them in 2008. They now possess it and they will surely display that they can defend it well this year. We may have upgraded in some of the positions by getting Quisy, Shelden and Sheed (which I egged on Danny in this blog to bring him in 2 years ago and which I was unrelentingly "dissed" by other posters similar to this one). Look at Sheed, he's our best player to clamp down on shooting forwards and guards (with likes of Lebron and soon Kobe) and a better version of Michael Cooper being 4 inches taller and quicker. I am no prophet guys but I think we will really be in trouble beating LAL. In a half court game (which we play most of the time), height is might.

Quicker than Michael Cooper? Even when Sheed was in shape, he was never quicker than Michael Cooper. Wallace can guard 4's and 5's, not 2's and 3's. As for Thabeet, he seems the consensus pick for likeliest lottery draft bust, he's playing less than 7 minutes per game. and he's only 2 years younger. How is this guy going to help us in the next three years?



BTW...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9827762/Griffin-among-rising-stars-at-Summer-League

...[Thabeet] struggled throughout, averaging 8.2 points, 4.6 rebounds and 5.2 fouls per game. One executive said that while he still could develop into a player similar to Dikembe Mutombo with hard work, he also could end up being another DeSagana Diop.

Least Valuable Player

…Thabeet is a nice guy. Problem is, he might be too nice. "Thabeet didn't really impress me," Hall of Famer Walt Frazier, serving as an analyst for New York broadcasts on MSG, said after one of his early games. "He wasn't very assertive."  Thabeet had a chance to wake up in a later game in which he went against Griffin's Clippers. While Griffin totaled 18 points and 15 rebounds, Thabeet didn't make his first basket until 30 seconds were left in the game and finished 1-for-3 from the field for seven points with three rebounds and seven fouls (it takes 10 for summer disqualification).  Adding to his woes, Thabeet also got outscored in a later game by Griffin's brother, Taylor Griffin, a second-round pick by Phoenix


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13366

Patience Required with Thabeet

Memphis Grizzlies rookie center Hasheem Thabeet has been a punch-line on media row this week in Las Vegas.  In short, he hasn't looked like a player worthy of being a high second round pick let alone the #2 overall pick in the draft.

…However, fans in Memphis are going to have to be patient because he's not NBA ready yet.

…Like it or not, Thabeet is a project.


http://hoopshype.com/articles/vegas09_09_ingram.htm

Hasheem Thabeet’s name has been laminated under “Dud” throughout the proceedings in Las Vegas and today did nothing to change that. Sure, he had 10 points and seven rebounds, but he missed four dunks – three of them wide open – and failed to block a single shot.

[LB3533]

Only way we trade Perk is if we are totally rebuilding and it would have to be after Perk's next contract when he will be either 28 or 29, and we'll trade him for a project younger big man.

[Chris]

Only way we trade Perk is if we are totally rebuilding and it would have to be after Perk's next contract when he will be either 28 or 29, and we'll trade him for a project younger big man.

I think this is a stretch.  I think there is a very good chance they look to trade Perk this summer, if they cannot come to terms on a reasonable extension. 

However, it will not be for a project big man, and a mediocre wing prospect. 

[bigjohnson34st]

Are you on something? Perkins is arguably the best defensive center in the game right now. Definitely the most underrated. Perfet fit for Sheed & KG.

[wdleehi]

Nobody's fooling who here.

I just wish all the posters here and our beloved team very well in the games to come. I wish you're all right.

The mismatch against Bynum and Gasol will be there however. Their team is the league's yardstick for success. We used to hold that after we beat them in 2008. They now possess it and they will surely display that they can defend it well this year. We may have upgraded in some of the positions by getting Quisy, Shelden and Sheed (which I egged on Danny in this blog to bring him in 2 years ago and which I was unrelentingly "dissed" by other posters similar to this one). Look at Sheed, he's our best player to clamp down on shooting forwards and guards (with likes of Lebron and soon Kobe) and a better version of Michael Cooper being 4 inches taller and quicker. I am no prophet guys but I think we will really be in trouble beating LAL. In a half court game (which we play most of the time), height is might.

Really?


Then why does Perk usually out play Bynum head to head?


And does anyone remember when Gasol had a big game in the Finals against the Celtics?

That's right, the one game Perk didn't play and wasn't defending him.


The Cs that are going to give Perk issues are the same ones that Thabeet will never be able to cover.  That's the large SF playing C on a lotto team that likes to run. 


Terrible trade idea for the Celtics playing to win this year. 

[Tai]

With Thabeet, we become stronger and younger in the paint defensively for the next 10 years. We get a lot more of respect on the defensive end. Perkins can body up on guys like Howard (Dwight) and Bynum of LAL but with lack of height for two inches or more (against Pau and Bynum) the Celts might be in deep danger when we meet LAL in the Finals. The need for an athletic and quick seven footer has become inevitable.

Our loss against the Suns showed our difficulty in guarding quick big men like Amare (later against Pau and Bynum). Sure, a young Garnett could have easily displayed a lot of fear against Amare but it was clearly evident that our bigs are getting challenged on a higher level of play. Even the Hawks' Horford, Bulls' Noah and Yao disregard our strength inside.

Or better yet, Perkins and Giddens for Thabeet then sign Goran Sutton to add another tall,wide-bodied power forward.

I dunno if Perkins can be defined as athletic, but he's as good a defensive center as there is out there.

Besides, the Suns beat us with 3-point shooting, going 13-24 from behind the arc. Also, KG himself scored 26 points and had 8 rebounds, and Channing Frye, the guy Perkins actually guarded in the game, only scored 8 points and had 5 rebounds, while Perkins himself had a dozen points and 7 rebounds. You would've been better off arguing that we should trade KG based off your complaining about the Suns game, since HIS man went off that night, but I'm sure you wouldn't want that. Otherwise, you're practically blaming what happened to that game on Perkins, but Thabeet would've helped in that game HOW? Saying "Thabeet MIGHT help in the future" is not convincing enough when Perkins is only two years older than him and yet clearly has shown he's the real deal defensively and seems to have JUST enough range to make his man respect him.

Amare's a great player. He's going to get his points, like all good players do. What makes you think Thabeet would be able to stop him? Cause he's tall?

[Jon Niednagel]

Perk actually defends people.  Thabeet looks like he's going to be far closer to a Chris Andersen type than a Dikembe Mutombo type.  No way.  And why take a long term gamble that would waste the title oportunities that we have the next couple of years?

Ecch!  Don't defame Chris Andersen.  I watch every Grizzlies game (I know, I know ...) and can say that Thabeet is "El Busto II."  The Shawn Bradley comparison was better.  He is a total statue.  Heisley, the meddling cheapskate Griz owner (Donald Sterling East), insisted that the team take him, over the objections of every b-ball guy on the staff.  Thabeet at #2 makes the Darko and (Stro') Swift #2 picks pale into insignificance, in terms of total incompetence.

 

TP for like-mindedness. I have lived in Memphis for a couple years now so I too follow the Grizz pretty close. Each point you made was dead on.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I already threw up this morning... Perkins is the best center we've had since Robert Parish left, when you have a good center that fits the mold of your team perfectly you don't trade him. Just because Thabeet is 10 feet tall doesn't mean he's gonna be good.

What he said.

Seriously though, this thread is a complete joke right?

Thabeet = raw/unproven/tall

Perk = muscle/experience/tenacity

[nickagneta]

While I am not as down on Thabeet as some and think in a couple years he could be a very good defensive starting center or great backup defensive center, he is not even close to being in Perk's league. If Perk gets All- Defense honors over the next two year or even one of those years and can establish himself to have 14points/14rebounds/3blocks numbers in his PER48 numbers(basically because I don't think with KG and Sheed he will get the minutes to post 10/10/2.25 numbers per game), he will be nearly a max level contract starting center on the open market in two years. Maybe not max but very close to it.

Thabeet will never reach that level. He just doesn't have that level of talent or BBIQ or drive, from what I have read.

[Tai]

Sure, Perkins is much better now because he's been in the league for the past 5 years.

His set of skills is waiting to be utilized by a coach who knows how to pace him and gradually mesh his talent and skills for the team and the game. Garnett and Sheed will be the perfect fit who can teach him further. He played a good number of years in college thus making him easier to be taught. Moreover, Memphis is not a good fit for him because all playing time and plays are centered on Marc Gasol. Look at Andrew Bynum, he was a bust in his first 2 years. He was almost a non-entity in basketball and now has become a threat to all (not just almost all but all) teams in the league. If we meet LAL (which is projected to be our opponent in the Finals if we get there) this regular season, I guess that will give us an early preview of what-might-be in the playoffs. I think he'll be outplayed and outclassed by Bynum. Not to mention he gives up 2 inches against that guy.

I'm sorry, I think you've all but proven you don't like Perkins at all, for one reason or another, more than you'll ever like Thabeet. You've talked down Perkins more than you've talked up Thabeet, and all you can say about Thabeet is that he's tall and supposedly "athletic".

Anyways, here are the last three games where Perkins has matched up against Bynum.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=271123002
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=271230013

Those games are from 07-08. Oh yeah, Bynum averaged 13.1 points and 10.2 rebounds that year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281225013

This game's from 08-09. Bynum averaged 14.3 points and 7.9 rebounds that year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281225013

For someone who you think will clearly outclass Perkins, Bynum has looked pedestrian against Perkins lately.

Where exactly did you get that Bynum outclasses Perkins? Just because Bynum is two inches taller? The stats clearly don't agree with you.

[slamtheking]

Only way we trade Perk is if we are totally rebuilding and it would have to be after Perk's next contract when he will be either 28 or 29, and we'll trade him for a project younger big man.

I think this is a stretch.  I think there is a very good chance they look to trade Perk this summer, if they cannot come to terms on a reasonable extension. 

However, it will not be for a project big man, and a mediocre wing prospect. 

I can't fathom what you could be basing this opinion on.  Perk will get a contract similar to Rondo's.  He's more than earned it.  He's improved in some manner each year in the league and he still hasn't hit his prime yet.

One other thing, he reached agreement on a very reasonable contract during his prior negotiations.  With that also in mind, what leads you to conclude that he will be difficult to sign?

Locking up him and Rondo up contractually secures the two hardest positions to fill with quality when the big 3 have retired or moved on.

You'd have to get an absolutely one-sided offer in favor of the C's or he has to be severely injured to consider moving him.

[Chris]

Only way we trade Perk is if we are totally rebuilding and it would have to be after Perk's next contract when he will be either 28 or 29, and we'll trade him for a project younger big man.

I think this is a stretch.  I think there is a very good chance they look to trade Perk this summer, if they cannot come to terms on a reasonable extension. 

However, it will not be for a project big man, and a mediocre wing prospect. 

I can't fathom what you could be basing this opinion on.  Perk will get a contract similar to Rondo's.  He's more than earned it.  He's improved in some manner each year in the league and he still hasn't hit his prime yet.

One other thing, he reached agreement on a very reasonable contract during his prior negotiations.  With that also in mind, what leads you to conclude that he will be difficult to sign?

Locking up him and Rondo up contractually secures the two hardest positions to fill with quality when the big 3 have retired or moved on.

You'd have to get an absolutely one-sided offer in favor of the C's or he has to be severely injured to consider moving him.

I base it partly on the rumor that they actually shopped him for a draft pick last summer. 

Partly on the fact that he is a significant injury concern with his shoulder. 

Partly on the fact that he is an offensive liability to the point that they strategically looked for a bench player who could take his spot down the stretch of games. 

And mostly on the fact that 8 out of every 10 Centers (OK, I made up the actual number, but it is not that far off...it may even be generous) signed for more than $6-7 million per year turn into albatross contracts that their team wants to trade away within a couple years...and Perk seems perfectly suited to join that group, once he is making the kind of money where he is expected to be more than just a defensive anchor.

Perkins is a great defensive player.  He is absolutely perfect for this team.  He is a steal at 4+ million per year. 

However, put him on a team where he is making $10+ million per year, and where he is not surrounded by 3 sure hall of famers to take on the scoring burden, and suddenly, he doesn't look nearly as good. 

So unless he is willing to take less than market value, and resign with the C's next summer for something in the neighborhood of 4 years/$30 million, then expect there to be a ton of trade rumors surrounding him, and expect him NOT to be a Celtic beyond 2011, either by trade, or by them simply letting him walk.

[ToppersBsktball10]

No thanks, Perk has more offense than Thabeet. And that's saying something...even though Perk's been improving offensively.