Suggestions to changing next year's CB NBA Draft to make it better.

[nickagneta]

Interesting suggestions on the tiebreaker GC but to play devil's advocate here, one of the suggestions being most high votes will be tough because it will remove whatever little objectivity is supposed to be in the game.

If people know ahead of time that there's a tiebreaker that entails most 1st or 2nd or 3rd place votes, everyone is going to vote their team #1.

Some revamped voting suggestions.

1. Have two commissioners.

2. Do the votes the way I suggested and have votes PMed into the two commissioners one day and have the commissioners release the results the next day with full disclosure of the votes and any rulings that needed to be made due to discrepancies.

3. Have voters vote only on other teams. When voting in conference, GMs can't vote for their own team.

4. Let the total vote determine the winners of the divisions and the placings not the voters. In other words let the voters vote on who they think will have the best records 1-15 or 1-14 if they are voting in division. When the votes are tallied and released, let the commissioner release the division winners and the seedings based on the released total of votes.

5. Let ties go to most votes in the top 8 with each vote being weighted 1st place 8 points, 2nd 7 points etc.

6. If that doesn't break it take out all the 8th place votes and recount all the 1st -7th place votes.

7. If that doesn't work knock off the 7th place votes and count 1st - 6th and so on and so on until you have a winner.


It will mean more commissioner work and a definite assistant commissioner.

Now, given that I originally suggested an assistant commissioner, given my ability to be available on this site do to my professional independence, given that I believe if you feel strongly about something enough you should do rather than suggest I will now volunteer my time as assistant commissioner next year and give up the Boxers so long as the following year I can get the Boxers back as a team, where ever they may be located.

This is a great game and quite addicting. It just needs tweaking and a bit more policing to keep players in line. In basketball there's three refs. In baseball there are 4 umps. In football countless refs and a camera. Poor Dons did a great job but could have used help keeping people like me(I admit I was a bit of an idiot more than once and for longer than I should have been) and others in better line.

One thing I have learned fairly quickly is this game dissolved out of a game of basketball management and into a game of politics fairly quickly. Maybe we can all understand why politics is so freaking dirty now.

Anyway, if the game continues, I'm willing to volunteer my time and give up my team to make it better and a constant yearly event here at Celticsblog that people will look forward to.

[Rondo2287]

I for one would throw my vote behind nick as an assistant commish, the only downside is that we would be losing one of our active GMs and I would miss him as a competitor.  But having somebody that enjoys and participates in the game as a helper for Commish would be a good thing IMO

[Redz]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

[nickagneta]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

[wdleehi]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

As for the PM vote, it will only happen if who ever is the Commish wants to weed through all those PMs. 

I just don't see it happening.

[nickagneta]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

As for the PM vote, it will only happen if who ever is the Commish wants to weed through all those PMs. 

I just don't see it happening.

I would do it. Except for this game I barely get PMs so it's not like I would have a ton of PMs to wade through. Also, I think I got well over 300 PMs due to this game, what's 50 more where all I have to do is count and cut and paste them. It doesn't seem like too much work to me.

[Redz]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

Honestly Nick, I think I'm just more of a stats guy, and would need to see how it plays out.  I think the process of drafting for 30 teams in and of itself is a fun process, but the concept of how you're supposed to find a winner after that doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me.

[nickagneta]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

Honestly Nick, I think I'm just more of a stats guy, and would need to see how it plays out.  I think the process of drafting for 30 teams in and of itself is a fun process, but the concept of how you're supposed to find a winner after that doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me.

I think it would be cool if we have this draft and voting. Then before the season we find a cumulative fantasy place where we could load in all the teams and have the season play out and see at the end of the year who won.

Something like a point for every player on your team for every point, rebound, assist, steal, block, free throw made, FG made 3pt FG made. etc. 1 point taken away for every turnover, missed FT, missed FG, missed 3pt FG, etc.

No head to head competition during the year and putting out 5 players every night. Every play gains and subtracts from your total every night. At the end of March you seed playoffs based on total season points and then do one week competition versus your direct competitor for a week. And so on until you have a fantasy winner as well.

Incorporate both and let the fantasy numbers settle some of the subjective arguments. then you can have end of year voting for GM of the Year, MVP, Rookie of the Year, Surprise Team of the Year, Future Team of the Year, etc. Couple of weeks later it could start all over.

Ehh. Probably a dream.

[bucknersrevenge]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

Honestly Nick, I think I'm just more of a stats guy, and would need to see how it plays out.  I think the process of drafting for 30 teams in and of itself is a fun process, but the concept of how you're supposed to find a winner after that doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me.

I think it would be cool if we have this draft and voting. Then before the season we find a cumulative fantasy place where we could load in all the teams and have the season play out and see at the end of the year who won.

Something like a point for every player on your team for every point, rebound, assist, steal, block, free throw made, FG made 3pt FG made. etc. 1 point taken away for every turnover, missed FT, missed FG, missed 3pt FG, etc.

No head to head competition during the year and putting out 5 players every night. Every play gains and subtracts from your total every night. At the end of March you seed playoffs based on total season points and then do one week competition versus your direct competitor for a week. And so on until you have a fantasy winner as well.

Incorporate both and let the fantasy numbers settle some of the subjective arguments. then you can have end of year voting for GM of the Year, MVP, Rookie of the Year, Surprise Team of the Year, Future Team of the Year, etc. Couple of weeks later it could start all over.

Ehh. Probably a dream.

Aren't we doing this already with the 2K9 thing? Did Hoyo already finish that or no?

[Roy Hobbs]

It's probably no surprise that the most fun draft, and the one with the fewest problems, was the one with the least rules and without voting.

[KCattheStripe]

Less Roy Hobbs quitting.

Eh...  let's look at it less like me quitting, and more like Edgar gaining control of the team in a hostile takeover.

Like Edgar has ever done anything hostile...

[Rondo2287]

Less Roy Hobbs quitting.

Eh...  let's look at it less like me quitting, and more like Edgar gaining control of the team in a hostile takeover.

Like Edgar has ever done anything hostile...

I dunno he was pretty peeved when I called Delonte Ugly, which is very true!

[nickagneta]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

Honestly Nick, I think I'm just more of a stats guy, and would need to see how it plays out.  I think the process of drafting for 30 teams in and of itself is a fun process, but the concept of how you're supposed to find a winner after that doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me.

I think it would be cool if we have this draft and voting. Then before the season we find a cumulative fantasy place where we could load in all the teams and have the season play out and see at the end of the year who won.

Something like a point for every player on your team for every point, rebound, assist, steal, block, free throw made, FG made 3pt FG made. etc. 1 point taken away for every turnover, missed FT, missed FG, missed 3pt FG, etc.

No head to head competition during the year and putting out 5 players every night. Every play gains and subtracts from your total every night. At the end of March you seed playoffs based on total season points and then do one week competition versus your direct competitor for a week. And so on until you have a fantasy winner as well.

Incorporate both and let the fantasy numbers settle some of the subjective arguments. then you can have end of year voting for GM of the Year, MVP, Rookie of the Year, Surprise Team of the Year, Future Team of the Year, etc. Couple of weeks later it could start all over.

Ehh. Probably a dream.

Aren't we doing this already with the 2K9 thing? Did Hoyo already finish that or no?

Yeah but that's a computer's interpretation of what's to come. I'm talking making it into a season long fantasy game as well that will take into consideration real player development, real injuries, real scoring, etc.

[nickagneta]

It's probably no surprise that the most fun draft, and the one with the fewest problems, was the one with the least rules and without voting.

Well I didn't participate in that but if that's the case, get rid of the voting and just let the 2K10 simulation determine the winner.

[Roy Hobbs]

Guys, I didn't involved with this this year for a couple of reasons.

1) The bickering
2) The level of subjectivity involved in the competitive aspect of the game

And to no small degree the level of which #1 was brought on by #2.

You can tweak the rules this way or that, but at the root of it you need to accept that this game is based purely on opinion.  If you can't handle other people's opinions than you shouldn't get involved.  For me it wasn't the opinions so much as the lack of a tangible scoring system that didn't make sense, so I got out.  Roto and Fantasy teams make more sense to me, but if you can wrap your head around the limitations of this game there's no reason why you can't enjoy it for what it is.  If you can't, just play.

It is a subjective game but I think the rules really can be tweaked enough to remove as much of the strategic subjectivity out of it. Hence my suggestions.

Make the votes public but not viewable until after the voting deadline to remove the ability of people to effect voting through vote tabulation.

Take voting your team out of the equation. It will mean people can't effect their own outcome.

Increase the amount of commissioners to put a stop to unnecessary bickering.

More expansive written rules to come up with answers for as many potential outcomes and questions. This is a young game. NFL football 2010 didn't have their entire rulebook written in just a few seasons.

I'm sure there's more but if these kinks can be worked out, I think it can remove some of the not so great stuff and even get you back to the game Redz.

Honestly Nick, I think I'm just more of a stats guy, and would need to see how it plays out.  I think the process of drafting for 30 teams in and of itself is a fun process, but the concept of how you're supposed to find a winner after that doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me.

I think it would be cool if we have this draft and voting. Then before the season we find a cumulative fantasy place where we could load in all the teams and have the season play out and see at the end of the year who won.

Something like a point for every player on your team for every point, rebound, assist, steal, block, free throw made, FG made 3pt FG made. etc. 1 point taken away for every turnover, missed FT, missed FG, missed 3pt FG, etc.

No head to head competition during the year and putting out 5 players every night. Every play gains and subtracts from your total every night. At the end of March you seed playoffs based on total season points and then do one week competition versus your direct competitor for a week. And so on until you have a fantasy winner as well.

Incorporate both and let the fantasy numbers settle some of the subjective arguments. then you can have end of year voting for GM of the Year, MVP, Rookie of the Year, Surprise Team of the Year, Future Team of the Year, etc. Couple of weeks later it could start all over.

Ehh. Probably a dream.

Aren't we doing this already with the 2K9 thing? Did Hoyo already finish that or no?

Yeah but that's a computer's interpretation of what's to come. I'm talking making it into a season long fantasy game as well that will take into consideration real player development, real injuries, real scoring, etc.

Does 2k9 do that, if you simulated the season day-by-day?  I know at least one of the NBA games imports real injuries and some player development via automatic download.  You'd have to literally simulate the season on a day-by-day basis, though.