2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[nickagneta]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

If Redd is "swiss cheese", though, why is Johnson only averaging 16 points and 5 assists against him? 

Late to the argument, but the answer, Roy, is in the stats. Redd built up a formidable point advantage over Johnson in the first 4 games Johnson played in Atlanta dring the 2005-06 season, when Johnson was the only good player on the whole team and was still trying to get used to being "the man" on a team. Double Johnson or concentrate on stopping him and you won most mights. That team was 26-56 and just god awful.

During that 4 game stretch Johnson got outscored by Redd by 50 points or 12.5 per game. Remove that 4 game stretch from the stats and Johnson's and Redd's stats stand [dang] near identical in most categories and since Johnson is a year younger and not coming off a huge injury, I would now give him the advantage.

nick, that's not really true.  As mentioned, Redd has outscored Johnson in 11 of the last 12.  It's a little misleading to suggest that Redd's advantage was solely early in their career.

Roy I didn't say early in their career. I said one 4 game stretch in one season where Johnson had to adjust to a new role. Redd outscored him in that 4 game stretch in that one year by 50 points!! He's only outscored Johnson by 83 points in 17 games. 50 of those points come in that one 4 game stretch in that one season where Johnson became the man in Atlanta on a horrible team and was having trouble adjusting to his new team and role.

The stats aren't really debatable Roy. It's pretty clear cut. Scoring wise Redd dominated Johnson in that one season. Otherwise, it's pretty much a toss up as a total numbers comparison.

[Edgar]

Dwight is not soft, he's a force. Shaq is jealous because he's washed up. (Well until this game is over, then they both suck).

Both players are jealous because when they go up against the smaller Perk he makes them look like little girls.

even if i have to agree with that statement

Howard is soft.

[nickagneta]

Dwight is not soft, he's a force. Shaq is jealous because he's washed up. (Well until this game is over, then they both suck).

Both players are jealous because when they go up against the smaller Perk he makes them look like little girls.

even if i have to agree with that statement

Howard is soft.

Wait didn't you argue that Howard's on steroids?

Poor man!!

He's soft and shrunken!! His girl isn't going to be happy about that!!

[Edgar]

Dwight is not soft, he's a force. Shaq is jealous because he's washed up. (Well until this game is over, then they both suck).

Both players are jealous because when they go up against the smaller Perk he makes them look like little girls.

even if i have to agree with that statement

Howard is soft.

Wait didn't you argue that Howard's on steroids?

Poor man!!

He's soft and shrunken!! His girl isn't going to be happy about that!!

exactly

air muscles..

to say the least.

[bucknersrevenge]

Bucknersrevenge. I have to ask.

Buffalo's frontcourt depth gives them just the edge they need.

So Zaza Pachulia and Brian Skinner are the difference makers in this?

In and of themselves its tough to call Zaza and Brian Skinner difference makers. I'll say that in a battle of 2 exceptional big men what happens when they go out can make a difference. Do you depth up front to hold the fort down if they get in foul trouble or need rest? Seattle and Buffalo are two very even team with lots of talent. Sometimes these things come down to the details.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Shaq (i will say this is a tie even if i give all the upper hand to shaq) = C. Bosh,
Manu > J. Johnson, 1
Redd = M. Ellis,
Miller >>  A. Randolph,3
Shard >> G. Hill, 5
J Oneil >> A. Nocioni,7
Delonte > D.J. Augustin,8
QRoss  > E. Clark, 9
Gomes > D. Blair, 10
Turiaf >  D. Andersen,11
Bibby>>M. Thornton,13
dudley = L. Powe,

13 pluses and I am going sleep to rest for WCF

It may be out of reach for Houston. Congrats Edgar. Good luck in the next round.

I think the above was my favorite. And while I may not agree with all of the above, I will concede that Mike Bibby is a heck of a 13th man.

(I do give Marcus Thornton a puncher's chance to beat out Mo Pete for the starting job in New Orleans.)

[nickagneta]

Dwight is not soft, he's a force. Shaq is jealous because he's washed up. (Well until this game is over, then they both suck).

Both players are jealous because when they go up against the smaller Perk he makes them look like little girls.

even if i have to agree with that statement

Howard is soft.

Wait didn't you argue that Howard's on steroids?

Poor man!!

He's soft and shrunken!! His girl isn't going to be happy about that!!

exactly

air muscles..

to say the least.

Maybe that joke doesn't translate right. It wasn't his muscles I was......nevermind. Site rules.

[Edgar]

Shaq (i will say this is a tie even if i give all the upper hand to shaq) = C. Bosh,
Manu > J. Johnson, 1
Redd = M. Ellis,
Miller >>  A. Randolph,3
Shard >> G. Hill, 5
J Oneil >> A. Nocioni,7
Delonte > D.J. Augustin,8
QRoss  > E. Clark, 9
Gomes > D. Blair, 10
Turiaf >  D. Andersen,11
Bibby>>M. Thornton,13
dudley = L. Powe,

13 pluses and I am going sleep to rest for WCF

It may be out of reach for Houston. Congrats Edgar. Good luck in the next round.

I think the above was my favorite. And while I may not agree with all of the above, I will concede that Mike Bibby is a heck of a 13th man.

(I do give Marcus Thornton a puncher's chance to beat out Mo Pete for the starting job in New Orleans.)

that will help u  a LOT mid season man

thanks
and good luck with this team this year
is a very good one

p.s. If u think your team was capable to reach NBA finals
dont forget to vote portland next round.

[Gainesville Celtic]

10 mins left to vote in the east....

in case you missed it:

ORL's case for why they win

PHI's case for why they win

[nickagneta]

Did an unofficial tally. Three extremely close votes and one runaway!!

[Edgar]

bump and change name

If its ok with W L


To all of u not visiting the ultra nerd ultimate draft please give us some love and visit and please dont forget to vote

[nickagneta]

bump and change name

If its ok with W L

A little too soon maybe Edgar. Quick tally on my part might have us in a tie in one of the races.

[Roy Hobbs]

bump and change name

If its ok with W L

A little too soon maybe Edgar. Quick tally on my part might have us in a tie in one of the races.

Ouch.

One of the East ones?

[Edgar]

bump and change name

If its ok with W L

A little too soon maybe Edgar. Quick tally on my part might have us in a tie in one of the races.

mmmm
interesting
oh well  I will change it for one day again..
lol

can we have psemi official results tonight?

[Gainesville Celtic]

Did an unofficial tally. Three extremely close votes and one runaway!!

Yup by my count I think ORL and PHI really did go into OT...

Wonder what happens now. Do we start offering TPs for folks to change their votes?!?