2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[Lucky17]

Cool, thanks for the link.

Some horrible shooting nights on both sides there (Redd shooting 29% from 3-point land). JJ consistently took fewer shots (average of 3 fewer) than Redd, so the outscoring argument (+4 points average for Redd) seems, to me, somewhat mitigated.

Still, surprised to see Johnson historically shoot so poorly vs. Redd. Also surprised that Redd actually outrebounded JJ head to head. So I do concede that the matchup, at least historically, is not overwhelmingly in favor of Houston here.

We'll see how this season's play bears out.

[Rondo2287]

DONT VOTE FOR THE BIG NAMES AND HYPE VOTE FOR THE BETTER TEAM

Brief look at a possible Matchup with Chicago.

I love my matchups on the frontline as well as my matchup of Artest and Bell, Bell cannot cover a bigger artest, its as simple as that.  And on the Defensive end I plan on matching up Garcia on Bell since Bell really is only a threat from the Perimeter and matching up Artest on Martin.

Garnett vs Pau
Garnett leads 15-6
Ganett-24 ppg, 13.4 Rpg, 5.1 Ass, 1.3 ste, 1.8 blk
Gasol- 18 ppg, 8 rpb, 2.6 ass, .7 steals, 1.6 blk

Camby vs Horford
Camby leads 2-1
Camby 11 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 4.3 Ass, 1.7 st, 1.7 blk
Horford 11.3ppg, 8 rpg, 2.3 ass, 2.3 st, 1.0 blk

Artest Vs Bell
Artest leads 8-7
Artest 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 3 ass, 2.7 st, .7 blk
Bell 9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.7 ass, .9 stl, .3 blk

Martin and Garcia never played eachother because they are on the same team.

Paul vs Miller
Paul leads 3-5
Miller 19ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.4 Ass, 1.1 stl, .3 blk
Paul   15 ppg, 5.4,    8.4 ass, 3.1 stl, .1 blk

So obviously chris Paul outclasses Miller with the Assists and Steals, but its not as much of a gap as people might think.


But for An offensive powerhouse team, My team leads the PPG in the one on one matchups in 4 of the 5 starting spots.  A real testament to the Defense I have constructed here I believe.


Comparing Benches

Chicago- Ryan Anderson, Keith Bogans, Deshawn Stevenson, Hilton Armstrong

Toronto- Big Z, Hakim Warrick, Michael Finley, Marco Belinelli


Guys dont forget. We lost to Orlando because our big man rotation included Miki Moore.  Also Pietrus Carved up the Celtics off the bench.  Dont you see the same thing happening here?

Vote For Defense and the Better team Vote Toronto!

[indeedproceed]

If you keep posting the same thing its not debating, its spamming.

[bucknersrevenge]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

[bucknersrevenge]

DONT VOTE FOR THE BIG NAMES AND HYPE VOTE FOR THE BETTER TEAM

Brief look at a possible Matchup with Chicago.

I love my matchups on the frontline as well as my matchup of Artest and Bell, Bell cannot cover a bigger artest, its as simple as that.  And on the Defensive end I plan on matching up Garcia on Bell since Bell really is only a threat from the Perimeter and matching up Artest on Martin.

Garnett vs Pau
Garnett leads 15-6
Ganett-24 ppg, 13.4 Rpg, 5.1 Ass, 1.3 ste, 1.8 blk
Gasol- 18 ppg, 8 rpb, 2.6 ass, .7 steals, 1.6 blk

Camby vs Horford
Camby leads 2-1
Camby 11 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 4.3 Ass, 1.7 st, 1.7 blk
Horford 11.3ppg, 8 rpg, 2.3 ass, 2.3 st, 1.0 blk

Artest Vs Bell
Artest leads 8-7
Artest 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 3 ass, 2.7 st, .7 blk
Bell 9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.7 ass, .9 stl, .3 blk

Martin and Garcia never played eachother because they are on the same team.

Paul vs Miller
Paul leads 3-5
Miller 19ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.4 Ass, 1.1 stl, .3 blk
Paul   15 ppg, 5.4,    8.4 ass, 3.1 stl, .1 blk

So obviously chris Paul outclasses Miller with the Assists and Steals, but its not as much of a gap as people might think.


But for An offensive powerhouse team, My team leads the PPG in the one on one matchups in 4 of the 5 starting spots.  A real testament to the Defense I have constructed here I believe.


Comparing Benches

Chicago- Ryan Anderson, Keith Bogans, Deshawn Stevenson, Hilton Armstrong

Toronto- Big Z, Hakim Warrick, Michael Finley, Marco Belinelli


Guys dont forget. We lost to Orlando because our big man rotation included Miki Moore.  Also Pietrus Carved up the Celtics off the bench.  Dont you see the same thing happening here?

Vote For Defense and the Better team Vote Toronto!

I like your team a bunch Rondo but I had to go Chi-town. I told JR I'm reppin his team this round so that's just how it is. But good luck to ya.

[Rondo2287]

Welllll I dont have anybody to debate with.  And what is the difference.  Everybody else is saying the same thing over and over Bosh is better than so and so, your backcourt stinks defensively, how can you stop shaq?   At least im sticking with my guns

[Roy Hobbs]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

If Redd is "swiss cheese", though, why is Johnson only averaging 16 points and 5 assists against him?  If Johnson is the superstar that folks say he is, and Redd (the Olympian and all-star) is as bad as some say, shouldn't the numbers for Johnson be better?

Also, Redd is a lot more than just a shooter.  28% of Redd's baskets last season were inside.  20% of Johnson's were.  That's right:  Redd gets to the hoop substantially more than Johnson does.  Redd also gets to the line a lot more than Johnson does (5.4 FTA per 36 minutes in his career, vs. 3.1/36 for Johnson).

Also, if you look at stats like PER differential (I generally don't, but stats-heads do a lot), Redd held opposing SGs to a PER of 12.8, and opposing SFs to a PER of 11.8.  Those numbers are very good, and were in the same general range as Johnson's numbers (although Redd's Opp. PER was actually better.)

[indeedproceed]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

If Redd is "swiss cheese", though, why is Johnson only averaging 16 points and 5 assists against him?  If Johnson is the superstar that folks say he is, and Redd (the Olympian and all-star) is as bad as some say, shouldn't the numbers for Johnson be better?

How did Redd do in the bucks games against Atlanta last year? I know Redd had one game where he outscored JJ, but I don't remember how the other 3 went. Do you know how Micheal Redd performed in those games?

I bet he never missed a shot.

[Roy Hobbs]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

If Redd is "swiss cheese", though, why is Johnson only averaging 16 points and 5 assists against him?  If Johnson is the superstar that folks say he is, and Redd (the Olympian and all-star) is as bad as some say, shouldn't the numbers for Johnson be better?

How did Redd do in the bucks games against Atlanta last year? I know Redd had one game where he outscored JJ, but I don't remember how the other 3 went. Do you know how Micheal Redd performed in those games?

I bet he never missed a shot.

Weren't you the one who said you couldn't in good faith predict injuries before the season even started?  I guarantee you, if Portland wins 60+ games and the #2 overall seed in the West, Edgar won't have to worry too much about injuries.

[indeedproceed]

yeah but that was when we did the regular season voting. This is the playoffs, baby.

[Roy Hobbs]

yeah but that was when we did the regular season voting. This is the playoffs, baby.

You think injuries are more likely in the playoffs than in the 82 game regular season?  I don't see it.

[indeedproceed]

yeah but that was when we did the regular season voting. This is the playoffs, baby.

You think injuries are more likely in the playoffs than in the 82 game regular season?  I don't see it.

I think over the course of a season they're more likely to get worn down and injured than they are before the season begins.

[bucknersrevenge]

Redd lacks the strength to contain the bigger and quicker Johnson.

I see why Hoyo gets so upset that nobody reads posts on here.  Doesn't actual -- rather than theoretical -- performance count for anything? 

Head to head, Redd has outscored Johnson 11 of the past 12 times.  Isn't that the point of the game?  To score more than your opponent?  In 17 career games, Johnson is averaging 16.0 points per game against Redd.  The last time they met, in late January, Johnson scored 9 points.  Redd has held Johnson to 15 or less in 8 of their past 12 meetings.

But, regardless of the facts, people will continue to underrate Michael Redd.  Obviously, he's much worse than Johnson.  Why?  Conventional wisdom, rather than actual performances in actual games.

Since when does scoring stats tell the whole story? JoJo is a more complete guard than Red who is a pure shooter. Johnson handles the ball more and helps facilitate the offense more than Redd Does. Not to mention Redd is coming off a major injury right now and he was an average defender at best before the injury. I'd be surprised if Redd could guard his way out of a wet paper bag right now.

I took Portland in this matchup in 6 simply because over a 7 game series I just don't think Shaq can be denied. But Portland's backcourt defensively is swiss cheese and Lewis at the 3 spot isn't much better. Houston's penetration and fast break ability will steal at least a couple of games before bowing out.

If Redd is "swiss cheese", though, why is Johnson only averaging 16 points and 5 assists against him?  If Johnson is the superstar that folks say he is, and Redd (the Olympian and all-star) is as bad as some say, shouldn't the numbers for Johnson be better?

Perhaps double teams, perhaps blowouts. Maybe he was doing more facilitating. Maybe another player had the hot hand and he was "feeding the horse". Ya see unfortunately Johnson actually has better teammates to pass the ball to so that could hurt his scoring. Could be anything though. But I know Redd wasn't a great defender before he got injured. With Johnson's height and size advantage I see troubles let alone the Bibby-Ellis matchup.

[Edgar]

o.k. to IP

and his comments from before

Do u think a lineup of

Delonte
Manu
Gomes
JO
Brad Miller is playoff worthy?

with those players healthy we can make the playoffs
rest the other 5 and
Conquer the world ( wait thats from another draft)

botton line is Portland can do it during season no matter injuries or resting needs
We will come at full strengh during playoffs
I think people seems to not watching or not wanting to watch at
some simple thing as that


p.s. Phoenix stinks.

[RebusRankin]

yeah but that was when we did the regular season voting. This is the playoffs, baby.

You think injuries are more likely in the playoffs than in the 82 game regular season?  I don't see it.

I think over the course of a season they're more likely to get worn down and injured than they are before the season begins.

Its all about attrition. By the time Portland is in the WCF, Shaq will be hurt and out. Bibby, Redd and Manu will be out. Lewis out. I forsee a freak accident where his top 8-9 players are out for the WCF.