Magic make another pickup with Barnes puts them ahead of Celtics/Ainge

[crownsy]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

Cleveland and SA didn't really lose anyone big.  Ariza isn't really that big of a loss.  And all of them have added way bigger talent than we have.  Plus you gotta figure most of their losses have been from free agency, which can easily happen to us with Rondo, Ray, and possibly Pierce next year (though unlikely).  Losing Posey to NO really hurt us.  Don't forget, we lost Powe and Marbury also, and maybe Davis.

you don;t think ariza was that big of a loss? he had a really good season starting for them, is an excellent defender and shooter, and is 24 years old.

I agree nabbing artest offsets alot of that, but what if ron ron doesn't mesh well, despite all the smiles and had shakes?

What if Rasheed doesn't mesh well?  Not to mention the fact that the Lakers broke both our streaks last year, so I'm not inclined to say we were better than them to begin with.
Until we see all the teams in action, I can't say the Celtics have had a better offseason than any of them, and I certainly can't say banner 18 is in the bag.

rasheed is a bench player though, it's a bit different. who is the lakers backup SF with ariza gone, even more so if odom leaves?

also, that kind of dodges my question to you by asking me another question. you blew off ariza leaving as if it was just some role player, when he was a hell of a starter last year for them and a big part of thier success defensivly, i fail to see how asking me about rasheed addresses the fact that ariza is anything but a "minor loss" for LA.

[RAcker]

Just a little prediction:

VC = AI

In other words, VC's success with the Magic will be very similar to AI's with Denver a couple of years ago.

[mgent]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

Cleveland and SA didn't really lose anyone big.  Ariza isn't really that big of a loss.  And all of them have added way bigger talent than we have.  Plus you gotta figure most of their losses have been from free agency, which can easily happen to us with Rondo, Ray, and possibly Pierce next year (though unlikely).  Losing Posey to NO really hurt us.  Don't forget, we lost Powe and Marbury also, and maybe Davis.

you don;t think ariza was that big of a loss? he had a really good season starting for them, is an excellent defender and shooter, and is 24 years old.

I agree nabbing artest offsets alot of that, but what if ron ron doesn't mesh well, despite all the smiles and had shakes?

What if Rasheed doesn't mesh well?  Not to mention the fact that the Lakers broke both our streaks last year, so I'm not inclined to say we were better than them to begin with.
Until we see all the teams in action, I can't say the Celtics have had a better offseason than any of them, and I certainly can't say banner 18 is in the bag.

rasheed is a bench player though, it's a bit different. who is the lakers backup SF with ariza gone, even more so if odom leaves?

also, that kind of dodges my question to you by asking me another question. you blew off ariza leaving as if it was just some role player, when he was a hell of a starter last year for them and a big part of thier success defensivly, i fail to see how asking me about rasheed addresses the fact that ariza is anything but a "minor loss" for LA.

I didn't blow off Ariza, i left it at "Artest offsets a lot of that".  Ariza didn't start much, and didn't score much.  True he was a good defender, but I don't think he was much more than their Posey.  If LA keeps Odom as a back-up forward along with Walton and Vujacic, they won't have a problem off the bench.  They are far better off with Artest who can be a consistent starter, rather than bouncing between Odom, Ariza, and Walton.
I wasn't deflecting your question, I was just saying you can't argue that their player won't mesh, when that's yet to be unseen.  The fact is you can't say the Celtics have had a better offseason than the other 4 teams right now, and you can't say we're gonna win the championship until we see where each team falls.  The only team who has lost a truly significant player is Orlando with Turkoglu.  And they have added more than anyone else, so it all evens out.

[BostonArizona]

True he was a good defender, but I don't think he was much more than their Posey. 

I don't agree with this at all.

I agree that he got overpaid like Posey did after his monster Finals performance but Ariza has a pretty nice skill set and is very savvy without the ball in his hands.

Kid has 3 pt range, defends with the best, above average slasher and hustles constantly. Every team should want him.

Posey has an extremely limited skill set(3 pt shot, more of a physical defender than a smart one) and will only do well in certain situations.

[Fafnir]

Just a little prediction:

VC = AI

In other words, VC's success with the Magic will be very similar to AI's with Denver a couple of years ago.

I think Vince will fit in a lot better with the Magic. He's also adjusted his game better to his diminishing skills.

I do think Orlando is going to be different, rather than better.

[crownsy]

True he was a good defender, but I don't think he was much more than their Posey. 

I don't agree with this at all.

I agree that he got overpaid like Posey did after his monster Finals performance but Ariza has a pretty nice skill set and is very savvy without the ball in his hands.

Kid has 3 pt range, defends with the best, above average slasher and hustles constantly. Every team should want him.

Posey has an extremely limited skill set(3 pt shot, more of a physical defender than a smart one) and will only do well in certain situations.

TP for saying what i would have. Ariza is much, much better than james posey. He can defend, shoot from range, and, most importantly is fast in the open court, has good handles, and can finish at the rim with either hand, three things james can't and never could do.

The only real similarities him and posey share are the three ball and tough defense, everything else trevor is much better at.

[Fafnir]

True he was a good defender, but I don't think he was much more than their Posey. 

I don't agree with this at all.

I agree that he got overpaid like Posey did after his monster Finals performance but Ariza has a pretty nice skill set and is very savvy without the ball in his hands.

Kid has 3 pt range, defends with the best, above average slasher and hustles constantly. Every team should want him.

Posey has an extremely limited skill set(3 pt shot, more of a physical defender than a smart one) and will only do well in certain situations.

TP for saying what i would have. Ariza is much, much better than james posey. He can defend, shoot from range, and, most importantly is fast in the open court, has good handles, and can finish at the rim with either hand, three things james can't and never could do.

The only real similarities him and posey share are the three ball and tough defense, everything else trevor is much better at.

At this point in his career, I agree. When he was in Memphis Posey was a more dynamic player. We'll see which was Ariza goes.

[mgent]

You can argue all day if Ariza is better than Posey, but i still think they brought the same value to both teams.  They were both 6th men.  Towards the end of his time in LA, he showed what he was worth, but in 08, and the majority of 09 he was not a HUGE piece to their team, not like Turkoglu was to the Magic.  I personally have thought he should've been starting all this time, but apparently the Lakers themselves didn't find him that valuable.  It'd be one thing if they TRADED Ariza for Artest.  But they lost him to FA and they went out and replaced him with a better player.  How can you not call that a good move?  It's what we should've done last year.

[BballTim]

You can argue all day if Ariza is better than Posey, but i still think they brought the same value to both teams.  They were both 6th men.  Towards the end of his time in LA, he showed what he was worth, but in 08, and the majority of 09 he was not a HUGE piece to their team, not like Turkoglu was to the Magic.  I personally have thought he should've been starting all this time, but apparently the Lakers themselves didn't find him that valuable.  It'd be one thing if they TRADED Ariza for Artest.  But they lost him to FA and they went out and replaced him with a better player.  How can you not call that a good move?  It's what we should've done last year.

  Wasn't Ariza injured in 2008?

[crownsy]

You can argue all day if Ariza is better than Posey, but i still think they brought the same value to both teams.  They were both 6th men.  Towards the end of his time in LA, he showed what he was worth, but in 08, and the majority of 09 he was not a HUGE piece to their team, not like Turkoglu was to the Magic.  I personally have thought he should've been starting all this time, but apparently the Lakers themselves didn't find him that valuable.  It'd be one thing if they TRADED Ariza for Artest.  But they lost him to FA and they went out and replaced him with a better player.  How can you not call that a good move?  It's what we should've done last year.

how do you figure ariza was there 6th man? he started for at the 3 for them all year when he was healthy. he was the starting SF, not a bench player. he averaged 34 minutes a night.

Odom was their 6th man, he rested ariZa at the 3 and played the four when they sent gasol/bynum to the center position to rest the other.

and at this point in thier respective careers, im not sure ron is all that much of an upgrade. He's better, no question, but not by much.

Ron's been steadily dropping off over the last 2 seasons, i don't expect that to halt in LA. meanwhile ariza has no where to go but up.

It's only a "wash" or upgrade if they also get odom back to play 6th man, if not, its a big loss.

[mgent]

You can argue all day if Ariza is better than Posey, but i still think they brought the same value to both teams.  They were both 6th men.  Towards the end of his time in LA, he showed what he was worth, but in 08, and the majority of 09 he was not a HUGE piece to their team, not like Turkoglu was to the Magic.  I personally have thought he should've been starting all this time, but apparently the Lakers themselves didn't find him that valuable.  It'd be one thing if they TRADED Ariza for Artest.  But they lost him to FA and they went out and replaced him with a better player.  How can you not call that a good move?  It's what we should've done last year.

how do you figure ariza was there 6th man? he started for at the 3 for them all year. he was the starting SF, not a bench player. he averaged 34 minutes a night.

Odom was their 6th man, he rested ariZa at the 3 and played the four when they sent gasol/bynum to the center position to rest the other.

and at this point in thier respective careers, im not sure ron is all that much of an upgrade. He's better, no question, but not by much.

Ron's been steadily dropping off over the last 2 seasons, i don't expect that to halt in LA. meanwhile ariza has no where to go but up.

It's only a "wash" or upgrade if they also get odom back to play 6th man, if not, its a big loss.

I think your facts are off man.  He only started 20 games and played 24 minutes during the year.  For the playoffs he started and played 31 minutes, but that's like i said the end of his career in LA.
In 08 he was injured for most of the year and only started 3 games.
LAMAR ODOM started every game he played in for 08, including the playoffs, played 38 minutes a game, and averaged numbers way higher than Ariza's.
In 09 he started 32/78 games on 30 minutes a game, plus 5 playoff games.
Luke Walton started 31/74 in 08 and 34/65 in 09.
Until the very end of last year, Walton and Odom were their starting forwards.