Magic make another pickup with Barnes puts them ahead of Celtics/Ainge

[BASS_THUMPER]

The Celtics are vastly improved compared to last years playoffs.

everybody blamin..."the bench the bench"

we had no "bench"...core part the startin squad went down

starters stay health we are fine..and if sumthin does happen..rasheed cant carry us..

[BostonArizona]

I can't see how people believe the Magic have gotten worse.  Why would they have traded for worse players?  Lee, Alston and Battie are being overrated.  If they hung on to Turkoglu they would certainly be as good as we are.
I'll break it down too.
Nelson is better than Alston, that's a fact.
Carter is WAY better than Lee.
Lewis is better at the 3 than he was at the 4, and will be better than Turkoglu was there.
Bass might be a significant dropoff from Lewis, but it allows them to play differently than having 2 SFs out there, and takes some relief off Howard at the post.
And then if they wanna go back to the 4 guys on the floor hurling up 3 pointers, they can just put Pietrus in who isn't that much worse than Turkoglu.  Plus they still have a strong bench with him, Reddick, Johnson, Barnes, Anderson, and Gortat.
They improved on 3 positions and worsened at 1 postion.

We get it. VC has the star power and is a great scorer so you assume "how could they have gotten worse?"

Its a good question really.

Think of it this way, the magic, over the course of this offseason, essentially lost 3 of their starters from the playoffs.

Alston, while not a great player, was playing some of the best ball of his career while in Orlando and that CANNOT be overstated. His impact on this team was undeniable(not to mention showed that he was just as capable as Jameer at the 1).

Turkoglu, is a huge loss if only for his ball handling and passing. But to delve deeper into how much this loss will affect this team, just watch any of the games from the ECF or the Magic-Celtics series.
Turk was essientially the Magic's:
PG/Ballhandler
Best passer
Defender of best player on the floor
Took every clutch shot(aka the Pierce role)

How can the magic replace that?
VC is a great player but Turk was THE piece that held it together for them in the playoffs. Through Dwight's struggles and all.

I think the most overlooked loss is Lee though. Too young, too talented to let go of at this stage. I honestly thought after this season, that Lee and Howard were the future of the Magic and I was excited FOR them.

The new Magic lineup is garbage campared to last year's.

PG- Nelson:: Overrated in every sense of the word. Was the primary beneficiary of Turkoglu's OUTSTANDING season

SG- VC:: Great player, but a me first player and NEEDS the ball in his hands. There was no player on the Magic last year that was like VC. Whether that is for better or for worse has yet to be seen.

SF- Rashard:: Should really stay at the PF. Had his most impressive season last year IMO and was a serious matchup problem. Still shows no consistency in his game...

PF- Bass:: So this kid went from being a good backup behind a top 10 player in the league to being a stud starter overnight. I don't get it. He's a good role player and nothing more. Again I prefer Lewis at the PF and Pietrus or VC at the SF. Maybe throw Reddick in at SG who seems to be progressing somewhat...

C- DH:: We all know about Dwight but the Gortat signing absolutely blew my mind. I can't believe all the money they threw at this guy. They don't even start him. He was a great bench player for them but honestly??? lol they could have throw all that money at Sheed and been that much better.

So. In what in my opinion seems like a disastrous off season for the Magic, they go from a pass first, 3pt shooting, matchup nightmare of a team to a shoot first, standard style NBA team. Not to mention they lost 2 of their best defenders leaving them with a team that isn't going to defend a chair(aside from Pietrus and a couple 5th row swats from DH).

People only look at talent of players coming in and out of a team, there is SO much more to it than that.

Say hello to the 3rd best team in the east.

[TheLegendaryClub]

I can't see how people believe the Magic have gotten worse.  Why would they have traded for worse players?  Lee, Alston and Battie are being overrated.  If they hung on to Turkoglu they would certainly be as good as we are.
I'll break it down too.
Nelson is better than Alston, that's a fact.
Carter is WAY better than Lee.
Lewis is better at the 3 than he was at the 4, and will be better than Turkoglu was there.
Bass might be a significant dropoff from Lewis, but it allows them to play differently than having 2 SFs out there, and takes some relief off Howard at the post.
And then if they wanna go back to the 4 guys on the floor hurling up 3 pointers, they can just put Pietrus in who isn't that much worse than Turkoglu.  Plus they still have a strong bench with him, Reddick, Johnson, Barnes, Anderson, and Gortat.
They improved on 3 positions and worsened at 1 postion.

We get it. VC has the star power and is a great scorer so you assume "how could they have gotten worse?"

Its a good question really.

Think of it this way, the magic, over the course of this offseason, essentially lost 3 of their starters from the playoffs.

Alston, while not a great player, was playing some of the best ball of his career while in Orlando and that CANNOT be overstated. His impact on this team was undeniable(not to mention showed that he was just as capable as Jameer at the 1).

Turkoglu, is a huge loss if only for his ball handling and passing. But to delve deeper into how much this loss will affect this team, just watch any of the games from the ECF or the Magic-Celtics series.
Turk was essientially the Magic's:
PG/Ballhandler
Best passer
Defender of best player on the floor
Took every clutch shot(aka the Pierce role)

How can the magic replace that?
VC is a great player but Turk was THE piece that held it together for them in the playoffs. Through Dwight's struggles and all.

I think the most overlooked loss is Lee though. Too young, too talented to let go of at this stage. I honestly thought after this season, that Lee and Howard were the future of the Magic and I was excited FOR them.

The new Magic lineup is garbage campared to last year's.

PG- Nelson:: Overrated in every sense of the word. Was the primary beneficiary of Turkoglu's OUTSTANDING season

SG- VC:: Great player, but a me first player and NEEDS the ball in his hands. There was no player on the Magic last year that was like VC. Whether that is for better or for worse has yet to been seen.

SF- Rashard:: Should really stay at the PF. Had his most impressive season last year IMO and was a serious matchup problem. Still shows no consistency in his game...

PF- Bass:: So this kid went from being a good backup behind a top 10 player in the league to being a stud starter overnight. I don't get it. He's a good role player and nothing more. Again I prefer Lewis at the PF and Pietrus or VC at the SF. Maybe throw Reddick in at SG who seems to be progressing somewhat...

C- DH:: We all know about Dwight but the Gortat signing absolutely blew my mind. I can't believe all the money they threw at this guy. They don't even start him. He was a great bench player for them but honestly??? lol they could have throw all that money at Sheed and been that much better.

So. In what in my opinion seems like a disastrous off season for the Magic, they go from a pass first, 3pt shooting, matchup nightmare of a team to a shoot first, standard style NBA team. Not to mention they lost 2 of their best defenders leaving them with a team that isn't going to defend a chair(aside from Pietrus and a couple 5th row swats from DH).

People only look at talent of players coming in and out of a team, there is SO much more to it than that.

Say hello to the 3rd best team in the east.

TP, my thoughts exactly. Well done.

[timepiece33]

I'll break it down too.
Nelson is better than Alston, that's a fact.

If you'd like to use the Nelson argument, Garnett is way better than Baby. 

Either way, they simply replaced Lee in the starting lineup with Bass, moved Lewis to the 3, and swapped Turk for VC.   Personally, I believe that makes their starting lineup worse ... but there bench is a little better.

[BostonArizona]

I'll break it down too.
Nelson is better than Alston, that's a fact.

If you'd like to use the Nelson argument, Garnett is way better than Baby. 

Either way, they simply replaced Lee in the starting lineup with Bass, moved Lewis to the 3, and swapped Turk for VC.   Personally, I believe that makes their starting lineup worse ... but there bench is a little better.

How is the bench better? Only improvements I see are that JJ is better now and you have gortat, who may or may not be better this year...

What is better about it?

They lost a lot of depth this offseason, and the chemistry that built their success. No way they even make the ECF.

Hypothetically speaking, if they brought back the same roster as last year their bench would include:
Reddick
Pietrus
Alston
Gortat
Battie

Now you have:
Reddick
Pietrus
Gortat
Johnson
Barnes

What is better about that?

[star18]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

[Greeny]

Ha ha ha.

Marbury, Daniels, BBD.
Not one signed yet, even after a week of replys comparing the Magic bench to the Celts.

I love the optimism of this blog.
DA needs to step it up, and lock in some players before they are all gone.

[Mr October]

Ha ha ha.

Marbury, Daniels, BBD.
Not one signed yet, even after a week of replys comparing the Magic bench to the Celts.

I love the optimism of this blog.
DA needs to step it up, and lock in some players before they are all gone.

resigning the non max RFAs take time. Lee is still negotiating. Same for Marvin Williams, Kleiza, Felton, Robinson, Sessions, Watson, Childress (staying in Greece?). Glen Davis and his price tag are right in line with the range of role player RFAs. It takes time. I figured on July 1st, that Davis wouldn't get resolved for a month.

Daniels is commited at the LLE at least. There aren't many better options (playing time or money) on other contenders. And after going from contender (dallas) to lottery, he really wants to get back to the contender level.

We've got time to play these things out.

[mgent]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

Cleveland and SA didn't really lose anyone big.  Ariza isn't really that big of a loss.  And all of them have added way bigger talent than we have.  Plus you gotta figure most of their losses have been from free agency, which can easily happen to us with Rondo, Ray, and possibly Pierce next year (though unlikely).  Losing Posey to NO really hurt us.  Don't forget, we lost Powe and Marbury also, and maybe Davis.

[mgent]

Ha ha ha.

Marbury, Daniels, BBD.
Not one signed yet, even after a week of replys comparing the Magic bench to the Celts.

I love the optimism of this blog.
DA needs to step it up, and lock in some players before they are all gone.

resigning the non max RFAs take time. Lee is still negotiating. Same for Marvin Williams, Kleiza, Felton, Robinson, Sessions, Watson, Childress (staying in Greece?). Glen Davis and his price tag are right in line with the range of role player RFAs. It takes time. I figured on July 1st, that Davis wouldn't get resolved for a month.

Daniels is commited at the LLE at least. There aren't many better options (playing time or money) on other contenders. And after going from contender (dallas) to lottery, he really wants to get back to the contender level.

We've got time to play these things out.

Is he even committed?  Or does he agent just say so?  What if some random team gives him a huge offer?  Look at what happened with Turkoglu.

[Fafnir]

Ha ha ha.

Marbury, Daniels, BBD.
Not one signed yet, even after a week of replys comparing the Magic bench to the Celts.

I love the optimism of this blog.
DA needs to step it up, and lock in some players before they are all gone.

resigning the non max RFAs take time. Lee is still negotiating. Same for Marvin Williams, Kleiza, Felton, Robinson, Sessions, Watson, Childress (staying in Greece?). Glen Davis and his price tag are right in line with the range of role player RFAs. It takes time. I figured on July 1st, that Davis wouldn't get resolved for a month.

Daniels is commited at the LLE at least. There aren't many better options (playing time or money) on other contenders. And after going from contender (dallas) to lottery, he really wants to get back to the contender level.

We've got time to play these things out.

Is he even committed?  Or does he agent just say so?  What if some random team gives him a huge offer?  Look at what happened with Turkoglu.

His agent said his client is committed. That's as definite as you can get for this situation.

You people are nuts, if some random team wanted to give him a huge offer they'd have done so already. Toronto didn't just cold call Hedo at the last moment. They'd been pursuing him for a while.

[angryguy77]

Lakers had so call great bench depth with a lot of shooter two years ago as well.


Celtics solid defensive bench beat them.  Now that Wallace has upgraded Posey's 6 man position, Celtics bench can match up with any bench.

agree. I think people are over looking what sheed is going to do for us. Can we use another guy? Sure, but its not the end of the world if we dont get one. We just have to stay injury free like every other team and we get the hardware.

[mgent]

Ha ha ha.

Marbury, Daniels, BBD.
Not one signed yet, even after a week of replys comparing the Magic bench to the Celts.

I love the optimism of this blog.
DA needs to step it up, and lock in some players before they are all gone.

resigning the non max RFAs take time. Lee is still negotiating. Same for Marvin Williams, Kleiza, Felton, Robinson, Sessions, Watson, Childress (staying in Greece?). Glen Davis and his price tag are right in line with the range of role player RFAs. It takes time. I figured on July 1st, that Davis wouldn't get resolved for a month.

Daniels is commited at the LLE at least. There aren't many better options (playing time or money) on other contenders. And after going from contender (dallas) to lottery, he really wants to get back to the contender level.

We've got time to play these things out.

Is he even committed?  Or does he agent just say so?  What if some random team gives him a huge offer?  Look at what happened with Turkoglu.

His agent said his client is committed. That's as definite as you can get for this situation.

You people are nuts, if some random team wanted to give him a huge offer they'd have done so already. Toronto didn't just cold call Hedo at the last moment. They'd been pursuing him for a while.

Just asking a question dude...
The future isn't set in stone, anything's possible.

[crownsy]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

Cleveland and SA didn't really lose anyone big.  Ariza isn't really that big of a loss.  And all of them have added way bigger talent than we have.  Plus you gotta figure most of their losses have been from free agency, which can easily happen to us with Rondo, Ray, and possibly Pierce next year (though unlikely).  Losing Posey to NO really hurt us.  Don't forget, we lost Powe and Marbury also, and maybe Davis.

you don;t think ariza was that big of a loss? he had a really good season starting for them, is an excellent defender and shooter, and is 24 years old.

I agree nabbing artest offsets alot of that, but what if ron ron doesn't mesh well, despite all the smiles and had shakes?

[mgent]

The thing about the Big 4 teams right now is that the Celtics are the only team getting major players and losing nothing in return.

BOS:adds Sheed, adds Daniels, gets KG Back, loses who? TA,Scals,Pruit not much of importance.
LA:adds Artest, loses Ariza
ORL:adds Vince,Bass,Anderson,Barnes, loses Hedo,Lee,Alston,Battie
CLE:adds Shaq,Parker,Moon, loses Wallace,Pavlicic,Wally,Joe Smith

If all of these were exact trades LA ORL & CLE would remain about even, unless Shaq has a super year but we don't know how effective Shaq will be and what effect it will have on Big Z

If we traded TA,Scals & Pruitt for KG, Sheed & Daniels it would be the most lopsided deal of all-time, yet isn't that essentially what we are doing with our roster?

Also I know some have said that BBD/Marbury/Daniels are not official yet, but you have to think we are going to get at least 2 of those guys no matter what, and if we don't get all 3 we will add someone else.

So assuming things go somewhat as planned the Celtics will be far ahead in off season moves of the other 3 top teams in the league.

Cleveland and SA didn't really lose anyone big.  Ariza isn't really that big of a loss.  And all of them have added way bigger talent than we have.  Plus you gotta figure most of their losses have been from free agency, which can easily happen to us with Rondo, Ray, and possibly Pierce next year (though unlikely).  Losing Posey to NO really hurt us.  Don't forget, we lost Powe and Marbury also, and maybe Davis.

you don;t think ariza was that big of a loss? he had a really good season starting for them, is an excellent defender and shooter, and is 24 years old.

I agree nabbing artest offsets alot of that, but what if ron ron doesn't mesh well, despite all the smiles and had shakes?

What if Rasheed doesn't mesh well?  Not to mention the fact that the Lakers broke both our streaks last year, so I'm not inclined to say we were better than them to begin with.
Until we see all the teams in action, I can't say the Celtics have had a better offseason than any of them, and I certainly can't say banner 18 is in the bag.