Author Topic: Magic make another pickup with Barnes puts them ahead of Celtics/Ainge  (Read 27293 times)

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Offline SCBirdman

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Ok we got Sheed, but may lose BBD.
LIKE I HAVE POSTED A MILLION TIMES> NO BBD, NO DANIELS, NO MARBURY
I love the optimism here that the Celts will get BBD.
Why haven't we signed him already?
Why hasn't Daniels signed yet?

I want them, but I won't hold my breath.
I hope DA has a back up plan.

I'm sure DA has a plan. Thats why the hold up on announcing the Daniels deal. I don't think that is the only deal DA makes.

Maybe DA signs Ben Wallace ,so he can finish his career with the team he began with and can win another ring. Maybe we sign Joe Smith or Ike Diogu. There are options.

BBD has NOT signed with another team and DA has repeatedly stated he wants to re-sign him, so why don't you believe him.'

Daniels agent and many media outlets have confirmed that Daniels will be a Celtic.

As for Marbury, who knows, but as of now it looks like Boston is his only option, so he is likely back.

If not, then DA will sign a solid backup PG or a big wing and play daniels as the backup PG.


Offline BballTim

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Ok we got Sheed, but may lose BBD.
LIKE I HAVE POSTED A MILLION TIMES> NO BBD, NO DANIELS, NO MARBURY
I love the optimism here that the Celts will get BBD.
Why haven't we signed him already?
Why hasn't Daniels signed yet?

I want them, but I won't hold my breath.
I hope DA has a back up plan.

When I posted this, the Daniels signing was in the news that day.
Now, there is no talk.

  Has there been talk of Daniels NOT signing here?

Offline Cman

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Ok we got Sheed, but may lose BBD.
LIKE I HAVE POSTED A MILLION TIMES> NO BBD, NO DANIELS, NO MARBURY
I love the optimism here that the Celts will get BBD.
Why haven't we signed him already?
Why hasn't Daniels signed yet?

I want them, but I won't hold my breath.
I hope DA has a back up plan.

When I posted this, the Daniels signing was in the news that day.
Now, there is no talk.

  Has there been talk of Daniels NOT signing here?

I would love to get the ETA for when he is signing here....
Celtics fan for life.

Offline TheSweetBigTruth

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Magic are not better than us. When you look at the starting fives the only place there better is center, and Perk still does guard Dwight better than most of the centers in the NBA. Then Sheed and Daniels off the bench are better than any 2 they have coming off the bench. and lets not forget about Eddie House.

Offline Jon

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The more I look at this post, the more I just find it laughable.  You really need to look at things from a baseball-like VORP perspective (Value Over Replacement Player).  When you do things like that, you'll see that it's the C's that have improved dramatically, not the Magic.  Let's examine rosters.

2009 Magic

PG Alston
SG Lee
SF Turkoglu
PF Lewis
C Howard

Bench
PG Johnson
SG Reddick
SF Pietrus
PF Battie
C Gortat

2010

PG Nelson
SG Carter
SF Lewis
PF Bass
C Howard

PG Johnson
SG Reddick
SF Pietrus
PF Barnes
C Gortat

I mean where's this dramatic improvement?  Is Nelson better than Alston?  Yes, but not dramatically so, especially considering how Alston played last year.  Elsewhere in the starting lineup they lose Turkoglu and Lee and add Carter and Bass.  That's about a wash.  On the bench they add Barnes, but where does he really fit in?  If they really want to get Gortat serious minutes, they're going to have to play him next to Howard, which means Barnes isn't going to get any minutes at the backup 4.  That leaves him as part of the 2/3 rotation.  Lewis and Carter are each going to see 35 mpg or so, leaving a whopping 25 mpg for Reddick/Pietrus/Barnes, who are roughly equal in talent.  So in many ways, the addition of Barnes is absolutely meaningless unless there is an injury, as there's really only room for one of those three, and at best two. 

As for the C's, the playoff roster looked like this:

PG Rondo
SG Allen
SF Pierce
PF Davis
C Perkins

PG Marbury
SG House
SF Allen
PF Scal
C Moore

Even leaving Baby and Marbury out of the equation for now, the roster looks like this for next year:

PG Rondo
SG Allen
SF Pierce
PF Garnett
C Perkins

PG House
SG Daniels
SF Daniels
PF Wallace (put Scal here if you like)
C Wallace

We see a dramatic improvement with KG over Baby in the starting lineup.  More importantly, we add a player in Wallace who not only is better than anyone we had off the bench against Orlando last year, but is actually better than Baby.  That means that in a series against Orlando next year, we will always have a better 4/5 combo on the floor than we did for any minute of the series last year. 

Similarly, at the 2/3 spot, we'll now have a guy in Marquis Daniels who is clearly better than anyone we had last year.  This will dramatically improve the rotation as well.  Instead of going undersized defensively at the 2 with guys like the 6-2 Marbury or at the 3 with the 6-4 Allen, we'll now have the 6-6 Daniels to lock down both positions.  Beyond that, Daniels has proven that he can contribute to a championship caliber rotation in his time in Dallas.  That's more than we can say for the rusty and hesitant Marbury and the perpetually boneheaded Tony Allen. 

Ultimately, the Magic have simply replaced outgoing players with comparable new ones.  The C's, on the other hand, have dramatically improved areas of huge vulnerability by adding high quality players. 

I thought the depthless C's (with a healthy KG) would have beaten the Magic last year in 5-6 games.  Now with a bench they can actually rely on, I think they'll absolutely destroy them. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 09:27:32 AM by Jon »

Offline crownsy

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Ok we got Sheed, but may lose BBD.
LIKE I HAVE POSTED A MILLION TIMES> NO BBD, NO DANIELS, NO MARBURY
I love the optimism here that the Celts will get BBD.
Why haven't we signed him already?
Why hasn't Daniels signed yet?

I want them, but I won't hold my breath.
I hope DA has a back up plan.

When I posted this, the Daniels signing was in the news that day.
Now, there is no talk.

so you consider Daniels agent a liar then?
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Offline Fafnir

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Ok we got Sheed, but may lose BBD.
LIKE I HAVE POSTED A MILLION TIMES> NO BBD, NO DANIELS, NO MARBURY
I love the optimism here that the Celts will get BBD.
Why haven't we signed him already?
Why hasn't Daniels signed yet?

I want them, but I won't hold my breath.
I hope DA has a back up plan.

When I posted this, the Daniels signing was in the news that day.
Now, there is no talk.

so you consider Daniels agent a liar then?
He is an agent crownsy....

 ;)

Offline timepiece33

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FTR: Replacing Turkoglu and Lee with Carter and Barnes seems like a lateral move in overall talent.

True, but what about adding Bass and Anderson?


Does Barnes even deserve to be in this discussion?   If you add him to Carter and compare them to Turkoglu/Lee ... that's a big downgrade. 

To me, it appears as if they are replacing Lee with Brandon Bass (moving Lewis to the 3).   Even when looking at that combination, I'd still take Turkoglu and Lee, but not by much. 

They then replaced bench components with Barnes/Anderson replacing Alston/Battie. 

Offline Greeny

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  • LETS DO IT AGAIN!
I hope we get Marbury.
I'm afraid the a team could offer BBD the MLE that the Celtics cant match.
I HOPE Daniels signs, but why is he waiting?

The Magic lost alot, but made great pickups including resigning Gortat.
I think the Magic as of now with the current rosters, are a little better than the Celtics because of their depth.

If the Celtics sign BBD, regardless of Marbury and Daniels, the Celtics will win Banner 18.

Offline Mr October

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Jon, your playoffs to now comparison really nails it. IN the playoffs the teams were pretty evenly matched.

With KG, Wallace, and just 1 more 2 way player in the fold, Boston will shred them, like they did before KG went down.

Offline Mr October

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by the way Jon, TP for your efforts. Thats a nice breakdown.

Lets sign Daniels and Davis, and then unleash the green machine on the NBA!! Go Celtics!!

Offline Hoops

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You know, I realize that some of these thoughts have been beat to death in other threads, but Jon's breakdown (nice work) reminds me just how big a deal it is to have Rasheed in green this coming year.

I realize that both teams are different now than they were 2 years ago, but can you imagine having Rasheed on the '08 team against LA in the Finals? Absolutely nobody would have picked LA if we had Sheed back then. Sure, LA is different (and better) now, but if LA is considered the top dog in the NBA after winning the title, Boston's starting 5 plus Sheed coming off the bench by himself is enough for me to make Boston the favorite against LA this coming year. Sheed is that good.

Offline mgent

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I can't see how people believe the Magic have gotten worse.  Why would they have traded for worse players?  Lee, Alston and Battie are being overrated.  If they hung on to Turkoglu they would certainly be as good as we are.
I'll break it down too.
Nelson is better than Alston, that's a fact.
Carter is WAY better than Lee.
Lewis is better at the 3 than he was at the 4, and will be better than Turkoglu was there.
Bass might be a significant dropoff from Lewis, but it allows them to play differently than having 2 SFs out there, and takes some relief off Howard at the post.
And then if they wanna go back to the 4 guys on the floor hurling up 3 pointers, they can just put Pietrus in who isn't that much worse than Turkoglu.  Plus they still have a strong bench with him, Reddick, Johnson, Barnes, Anderson, and Gortat.
They improved on 3 positions and worsened at 1 postion.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Offline Mr October

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I dont think the Magic are worse. I think they are just different.

They are about as good on paper as they were in the playoffs this past year. However, they lost that edge they had with Turk and Lewis. Now James can guard Lewis and Moon/West can guard Carter. The Magic match up advantage is gone.

The Celtics are vastly improved compared to last years playoffs.

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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lewis was solid...he was the only one whom played with a  purpose