Hornets interested in Baby, but would need to S&T for him -- Wright & Armstrong?

[ssspence]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

what would this deal or a variation of it have to look like? as they don't have any vet min players, is it even possible?

[Roy Hobbs]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

what would this deal or a variation of it have to look like? as they don't have any vet min players, is it even possible?

Without looking at the numbers or rosters (which is dangerous), I'd assume we'd have to add other players outgoing from us.  The more salary we're sending out besides just BBD's, the easier it is for us to match salaries.

Thus, BBD + Scal + Tony for Posey + Armstrong + Wright may very well work, while a smaller trade may not (again, I haven't done the math).

[ssspence]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

Correct me if I am wrong but if the Celtics sign and trade baby to the Hornets for a 4 year/$21.6 million deal with a first year salary of $5 million then he would count as $2.5 million in outgoing salary.

So if the Celtics S&T Baby at the amount stipulated above with Giddens and Scalabrine(total outgoing including BYC, $6.94 million) to New Orleans and get back Rasual Butler, Hilton Armstrong and Julian Wright(total salary $8.745 million) the deal could happen since the Celtics are taking back less than $100,000 over the 125% they are allowed to take back in a trade while the Hornets are taking in less than 125% of their outgoing salary because the money coming into them counts as $9.44 million and not the BYC amount the Celtics have outgoing.

Would that work?

Nice look there. But the Hornets may be giving up too much, while not relieving them of any long term salaries. Likewise, we're not taking back Peterson or Posey.

[Lucky17]

I believe if Baby signs for a contract starting at $4.5 mil, he could be traded to NO for Armstrong (who makes just under $2.81 mil) and Devin Brown (who I assume is on a vet min contract).

[Roy Hobbs]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

Correct me if I am wrong but if the Celtics sign and trade baby to the Hornets for a 4 year/$21.6 million deal with a first year salary of $5 million then he would count as $2.5 million in outgoing salary.

So if the Celtics S&T Baby at the amount stipulated above with Giddens and Scalabrine(total outgoing including BYC, $6.94 million) to New Orleans and get back Rasual Butler, Hilton Armstrong and Julian Wright(total salary $8.745 million) the deal could happen since the Celtics are taking back less than $100,000 over the 125% they are allowed to take back in a trade while the Hornets are taking in less than 125% of their outgoing salary because the money coming into them counts as $9.44 million and not the BYC amount the Celtics have outgoing.

Would that work?

I didn't check your math, but yep, that's the type of deal it needs to be.

[ssspence]

I believe if Baby signs for a contract starting at $4.5 mil, he could be traded to NO for Armstrong (who makes just under $2.81 mil) and Devin Brown (who I assume is on a vet min contract).

wouldn't do that -- just keep baby at that price. for wright and brown tho... maybe. they make a combined 3.107mil. so if baby signed for approximately 4, would it work?

[paintitgreen]

First, I don't think NO would want him at around $4 mil a year, I think they'd be hoping for about $3, which gives us a scenario where, doesn't it just make more sense to sign him at that money ourselves? So the rest of this will be based on the premise that our management doesn't want to keep Davis for that money and/or Davis doesn't want to stay here and wants to go back to Louisiana.

I'm a huge fan of Wright, but I don't think he's better than Posey at this point by a long shot. He doesn't have the shot right now, though I think he's got good athleticism and defensive ability to guard big 3s. But I agree Wright and Armstrong would be a more appealling package to us at this point, since it's obvious, particularly after the reduction in this year's cap and projected bigger reduction next season, that we're not taking Posey's contract back now.

(Note: I would say the same about Nocioni - I support the idea of trading for either Posey or Nocioni, but it's just not happening; we already turned down Posey's contract in a better economic landscape and Nocioni actually makes more over the same period.)

If it could work, I'd love to see Armstrong, Wright and the rights to Darren Collison for Davis and Pruitt. I'm just not sure how it could work, and what Davis' contract would have to be to make it work. New Orleans is looking to cut costs by all accounts and BYC rules make it difficult for NO to cut costs at all in a move like this.

Our bench would become Collison, House, TA, Giddens, Wright, Walker, Scalabrine, Sheed and Armstrong, with one spot remaining for a guy like Hudson (or, ideally to me, Powe as a 6th big while rehabbing). Collison and House share backup point duties. House gets most backup 2 minutes, with some for TA or Giddens or Walker. Wright gets most of the backup 3 minutes, Sheed gets most of the backup minutes at the 4 and 5 with Scal and Armstrong available as further backup at those spots. I'm a little hesitant about relying so much on unproven, unreliable or small wings, but I think it's a versatile lineup. I'd prefer at this point to keep Davis and get a big wing in free agency, but if Davis wanted to go, I think this would be a solid return package.

My dream scenario would be for Giddens and Walker to show they can pick up any spare minutes at the 2 alongside House or Collison, allowing us to trade Tony Allen and most or all of his salary to a team with cap space so we could save $2.5 mil in luxury tax money and the roster spot for Powe (if we got Leon on a minimum deal, we'd still save about a half mil overall with the TA dump). If we could find a willing team, I'd also love to trade Scalabrine and $3 million to a team under the cap that would buy him out for around $2.5 mil, followed by us giving Scal a veteran's minimum contract, saving us another $1.8 or so million. Of course, Scal would have to agree to give up his Bird rights but he'd make the same amount of money plus a $100K or so bonus.

[Lucky17]

I believe if Baby signs for a contract starting at $4.5 mil, he could be traded to NO for Armstrong (who makes just under $2.81 mil) and Devin Brown (who I assume is on a vet min contract).

wouldn't do that -- just keep baby at that price. for wright and brown tho... maybe. they make a combined 3.107mil. so if baby signed for approximately 4, would it work?

I believe so. Brown would need to be included also for NO's end of the deal.

[Brickowski]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

Correct me if I am wrong but if the Celtics sign and trade baby to the Hornets for a 4 year/$21.6 million deal with a first year salary of $5 million then he would count as $2.5 million in outgoing salary.

So if the Celtics S&T Baby at the amount stipulated above with Giddens and Scalabrine(total outgoing including BYC, $6.94 million) to New Orleans and get back Rasual Butler, Hilton Armstrong and Julian Wright(total salary $8.745 million) the deal could happen since the Celtics are taking back less than $100,000 over the 125% they are allowed to take back in a trade while the Hornets are taking in less than 125% of their outgoing salary because the money coming into them counts as $9.44 million and not the BYC amount the Celtics have outgoing.

Would that work?

I didn't check your math, but yep, that's the type of deal it needs to be.

He counts as 2.5 million outgoing to the Celtics, but as 5 million incoming to the Hornets. So the Hornets would be taking back 9.4 million in Salaries.


So I think it still works capwise, but why would the Hornets do it?  They would be giving up a decent 7 footer and a lottery pick for BBD and expirings. It does save the Hornets some money, but it also reduces the assets they might be able to bundle with an outgoing Tyson Chandler, which would save them much more money.  Theyve been trying to trade Chandler for a year.

[nickagneta]

I believe if Baby signs for a contract starting at $4.5 mil, he could be traded to NO for Armstrong (who makes just under $2.81 mil) and Devin Brown (who I assume is on a vet min contract).

wouldn't do that -- just keep baby at that price. for wright and brown tho... maybe. they make a combined 3.107mil. so if baby signed for approximately 4, would it work?

I believe so. Brown would need to be included also for NO's end of the deal.

That wouldn't work because both teams are limited to bringing in over 125% of the outgoing salary. So if the C's S&T Baby at $4 million and send him out by himself then the most they can take in is $2.6 million in salary(125% + $100G of 50% of his first year salary of $4 million). But his outgoing salary is equal to $4 million. so the most NO could take in trade the players discussed at $3.1 million in salary is $3.82 million. baby's $4 million is more than that so the deal breaks down on both ends.

[nickagneta]

Base year compensation is going to make a trade like that complicated.

Correct me if I am wrong but if the Celtics sign and trade baby to the Hornets for a 4 year/$21.6 million deal with a first year salary of $5 million then he would count as $2.5 million in outgoing salary.

So if the Celtics S&T Baby at the amount stipulated above with Giddens and Scalabrine(total outgoing including BYC, $6.94 million) to New Orleans and get back Rasual Butler, Hilton Armstrong and Julian Wright(total salary $8.745 million) the deal could happen since the Celtics are taking back less than $100,000 over the 125% they are allowed to take back in a trade while the Hornets are taking in less than 125% of their outgoing salary because the money coming into them counts as $9.44 million and not the BYC amount the Celtics have outgoing.

Would that work?

I didn't check your math, but yep, that's the type of deal it needs to be.

He counts as 2.5 million outgoing to the Celtics, but as 5 million incoming to the Hornets. So the Hornets would be taking back 9.4 million in Salaries.


So I think it still works capwise, but why would the Hornets do it?  They would be giving up a decent 7 footer and a lottery pick for BBD and expirings. It does save the Hornets some money, but it also reduces the assets they might be able to bundle with an outgoing Tyson Chandler, which would save them much more money.  Theyve been trying to trade Chandler for a year.

I'm nopt saying it is the wisest deal but it is the type of deal that works. And, yeah, I knew the Hornets money incoming counted as $9.4 million as I stipulated in the last sentence of my post.

[PosImpos]

If we gave them a couple expiring guys and we got Wright and Mo. Pete or Posey I'd be interested in that.

[Birdbrain]

Per the globe, the Hornets would like have Big Baby, but need to do a sign-and-trade considering their high payroll. If he's going to sign elsewhere, the Hornets are the best option (over Detriot, SAS, Orlando).  If they would pay him $5mil a season, and we won't, would you trade him for Julian Wright & Hilton Armstrong? I've always liked Wright's talent -- he has the makings of an excellent defender, and can pass and score from the block (tho can't shoot). We need another big guy, and Armstrong makes a fine end of the bench big capable of 10 mins a game.

Certainly worth considering. It would also make it easier to package on of Walker or Giddens into a deal for a vet with TA amnd Scal.

Why help them out.  Let them not sign him and then the C's can.  Makes no sense to trade him.

[Lucky17]

I believe if Baby signs for a contract starting at $4.5 mil, he could be traded to NO for Armstrong (who makes just under $2.81 mil) and Devin Brown (who I assume is on a vet min contract).

wouldn't do that -- just keep baby at that price. for wright and brown tho... maybe. they make a combined 3.107mil. so if baby signed for approximately 4, would it work?

I believe so. Brown would need to be included also for NO's end of the deal.

That wouldn't work because both teams are limited to bringing in over 125% of the outgoing salary. So if the C's S&T Baby at $4 million and send him out by himself then the most they can take in is $2.6 million in salary(125% + $100G of 50% of his first year salary of $4 million). But his outgoing salary is equal to $4 million. so the most NO could take in trade the players discussed at $3.1 million in salary is $3.82 million. baby's $4 million is more than that so the deal breaks down on both ends.

Yeah, Baby's new deal needs to be a shade under $4 mil in the first year. $3.9 mil works (Wright and Brown make a combined $3,107,612, which means NO can take back up to $3,984,515).

[PosImpos]

Per the globe, the Hornets would like have Big Baby, but need to do a sign-and-trade considering their high payroll. If he's going to sign elsewhere, the Hornets are the best option (over Detriot, SAS, Orlando).  If they would pay him $5mil a season, and we won't, would you trade him for Julian Wright & Hilton Armstrong? I've always liked Wright's talent -- he has the makings of an excellent defender, and can pass and score from the block (tho can't shoot). We need another big guy, and Armstrong makes a fine end of the bench big capable of 10 mins a game.

Certainly worth considering. It would also make it easier to package on of Walker or Giddens into a deal for a vet with TA amnd Scal.

Why help them out.  Let them not sign him and then the C's can.  Makes no sense to trade him.

Well, if we could get a couple decent wing reserves, one of whom is a young guy with potential, in return for Big Baby and a couple of our expiring end-of-rotation guys, I'd say we should do it.  Big Baby is our only bench guy with youth and a significant amount of potential (now that Powe is out), but with Wallace here he's not going to get a whole lot of playing time.

A guy like Julian Wright could probably earn 15+ minutes per game behind Pierce and Allen, and if he doesn't, we could still get Mo. Pete or Posey to play that amount of time.  The trade would leave us without a 4th big, but we could get a serviceable 4th big in free agency still (like Rasho Nesterovic for instance).