Author Topic: Cavs future?  (Read 36062 times)

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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2009, 08:53:19 AM »

Offline Who

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I think they have to dump Gibson + West + Jackson + their 2009 and 2010 first round draft picks in order to pay Varejao $7mil.

That, or, the cap has to go up to about $62/63 million. Which is what? $5/6 million more than it is currently.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2009, 09:21:10 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Quote
personally, i think the only way they have money for two max contracts is if they don't re-sign Var....

There's no reason to think that.



Unless you know what the cap is going to be for that year, I believe there definitely is reason to think that.


Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #107 on: June 03, 2009, 09:24:59 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Maximum contract allowed, 25% of the cap. Or is it 30% for Bosh and LeBron? In any case, they have enough room.


well 18 and 15 are pretty different figures and I'm not sure you are going to get Bron to sign before the other max deal.

What does this mean? Are you saying LeBron won't opt out?


30% of 60 is 18 million....



Yeah, if it's 30% they still have the cap room to sign them both, sign Varejão, keep Mo Williams, keep Hickson, sign a draft pick and spend $5 millions or so in other players (like DWest, for example).

if they are able to dump both Gibson and DWest (something they would have to do before Bron reups) and are able to sign Var for 7 mil per (he's opting out on close to 7 by the way)....

personally, i think the only way they have money for two max contracts is if they don't re-sign Var....


I'm not sure why you think that when the mathematics have been laid out for you. As long as they don't give AV more than 8 they only have to dump West.

AV opted out to get a long term deal. I highly doubt he'll ask for or command more than eight million per year. Plus they can always front load his deal some.

for one, we don't know what the cap is going to be. plus, Var was looking for 10 mil last off season. and they would have to dump these players before Bron signed.

if they are able to sign Var for 7 mill, what is their willingness going to be to go into the 2010 off season with a team of

Mo Williams
Varejao
Hickson

not knowing if Bron might not even want to come back at that point.

Let's see how it shakes down. maybe you guys are right.
If LeBron leaves it doesn't matter you have to rebuild anyways. So you set up so at least you can sign him and another elite player. If that doesn't happen you'll be clear of bad contracts and can rebuild quickly.

well depending on how much and how long you have to sign Varejao for....that could end up being a bad contract if you lose out on LeBron.

I just don't think it is clear cut at all for CLE adding two max contracts -  especially along with re-signing Var.

As you have pointed out, it's within realm of possibility, but I think it would be more possible without re-signing Var. and that comes with its own risks....number one being the upcoming season.

As for the Knicks, they've been bad for so long they're not really risking much by trimming all contracts after 2010. and if they can unload Curry, they are going to have the most money to spend regardless of the cap number.
What risks?

The risk signing Varejao is that it makes it harder to keep Bron and get another max deal.

The risk not signing him is that you lessen your chances of winning a Title in the upcoming season.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #108 on: June 03, 2009, 10:48:32 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #109 on: June 03, 2009, 10:51:10 AM »

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

So you think there's a chance AV walks then, depending on his contract demands?
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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #110 on: June 04, 2009, 08:51:39 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

So you think there's a chance AV walks then, depending on his contract demands?

Yes there is a chance and the Cavs have a back up plan if need be. 

Another names that are floating around a little bit are T-Mac (which I find very interesting) and Sheed

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2009, 09:02:33 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

So you think there's a chance AV walks then, depending on his contract demands?

Yes there is a chance and the Cavs have a back up plan if need be. 

Another names that are floating around a little bit are T-Mac (which I find very interesting) and Sheed
Rasheeed is very possible, but TMac? Yuck!

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2009, 09:09:14 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.
he wouldn't have traded for Mo Williams if that was his intent.
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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2009, 09:11:00 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.
he wouldn't have traded for Mo Williams if that was his intent.
Mo Williams is only making 10 million, you can still sign two max players with his contract on the books.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2009, 09:55:28 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

So you think there's a chance AV walks then, depending on his contract demands?

Yes there is a chance and the Cavs have a back up plan if need be. 

Another names that are floating around a little bit are T-Mac (which I find very interesting) and Sheed

Sheed is going to want more than a one year deal, no?

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2009, 10:48:43 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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I am sure Sheed would sign for something around 3 years.  The Cavs can sign some players and still have room for 2 max contracts.

T-Mac could be a great asset to the Cavs if he actually played within his means.  I would be very hesitant to get excited about him coming to the Cavs

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2009, 11:01:41 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.

So you think there's a chance AV walks then, depending on his contract demands?

Yes there is a chance and the Cavs have a back up plan if need be. 

Another names that are floating around a little bit are T-Mac (which I find very interesting) and Sheed

Sheed is going to want more than a one year deal, no?
If Sheed is signed to a multi-year deal it would mean AV has not be retained.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 11:22:29 AM by Fafnir »

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #117 on: June 04, 2009, 11:15:14 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.
he wouldn't have traded for Mo Williams if that was his intent.
Mo Williams is only making 10 million, you can still sign two max players with his contract on the books.
No they can't.  Lebron and whomever will have 17-18 million as the first year salary (30% of the cap).  That is 35 million or so from just those two players.  You add Williams (9.3 mill), Hickson (1.5 mill), and right now West, Jackson, and Boobie (9.5 mill combined) and they are right around the cap, of course that doesn't account for the fact that they don't have enough players so they have to add salary to account for the missing players from the roster.  In addition, that is assuming they renounce the rights of Big Z, Pavlovic (likely), Wallace (likely), and whomever they would sign this year assuming it is just a 1 year deal (Varejao for example).  Rescinding those rights essentially means all those guys are gone.  

When the Cavs traded for Mo Williams they gave up on the idea of signing Lebron and another max player as free agents.  That isn't to say they couldn't still get another very good player, he just won't be a max guy.  Perhaps Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, etc. would go there at a small discount to play with Lebron (Redd being older and an Ohio guy is very likely, assuming of course he opts out, which he may not given the size of his option).
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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #118 on: June 04, 2009, 11:22:07 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.
he wouldn't have traded for Mo Williams if that was his intent.
Mo Williams is only making 10 million, you can still sign two max players with his contract on the books.
No they can't.  Lebron and whomever will have 17-18 million as the first year salary (30% of the cap).  That is 35 million or so from just those two players.  You add Williams (9.3 mill), Hickson (1.5 mill), and right now West, Jackson, and Boobie (9.5 mill combined) and they are right around the cap, of course that doesn't account for the fact that they don't have enough players so they have to add salary to account for the missing players from the roster.  In addition, that is assuming they renounce the rights of Big Z, Pavlovic (likely), Wallace (likely), and whomever they would sign this year assuming it is just a 1 year deal (Varejao for example).  Rescinding those rights essentially means all those guys are gone.  

When the Cavs traded for Mo Williams they gave up on the idea of signing Lebron and another max player as free agents.  That isn't to say they couldn't still get another very good player, he just won't be a max guy.  Perhaps Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, etc. would go there at a small discount to play with Lebron (Redd being older and an Ohio guy is very likely, assuming of course he opts out, which he may not given the size of his option).
I refer you to cordobes earlier post. West's salary is only partially guarenteed and other than that they have no long term salary other than Boobie/Williams.

The rest can all be jetisioned if it means bringing in Bosh/Wade/Amare/etc.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #119 on: June 04, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Whether you want to believe it or not Danny Ferry is specifically planing to have enough cap space to sign another max contract player after next year.  Debate in here all you want, but that is a fact.  Any move he makes will not jeopardize the plan for 2010.
he wouldn't have traded for Mo Williams if that was his intent.
Mo Williams is only making 10 million, you can still sign two max players with his contract on the books.
No they can't.  Lebron and whomever will have 17-18 million as the first year salary (30% of the cap).  That is 35 million or so from just those two players.  You add Williams (9.3 mill), Hickson (1.5 mill), and right now West, Jackson, and Boobie (9.5 mill combined) and they are right around the cap, of course that doesn't account for the fact that they don't have enough players so they have to add salary to account for the missing players from the roster.  In addition, that is assuming they renounce the rights of Big Z, Pavlovic (likely), Wallace (likely), and whomever they would sign this year assuming it is just a 1 year deal (Varejao for example).  Rescinding those rights essentially means all those guys are gone.  

When the Cavs traded for Mo Williams they gave up on the idea of signing Lebron and another max player as free agents.  That isn't to say they couldn't still get another very good player, he just won't be a max guy.  Perhaps Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, etc. would go there at a small discount to play with Lebron (Redd being older and an Ohio guy is very likely, assuming of course he opts out, which he may not given the size of his option).

It will be close, but I think they'll be able to do it.

Let's say Lebron signs for $18.5 million (his starting salary should be somewhere in that range; that may be a little on the high side.)

Let's also presume the salary cap stays relatively level the next two seasons, around $57 million.

Right now, counting Lebron, the Cavs would have exactly three guaranteed contracts on the roster:  Lebron ($18.5 million), Williams ($9.3 million), and Boobie ($4.02 million).  That's a total of $31.82 million.  Let's assume they invite Hickson back for $1.53 million.  That brings their payroll up to $33.35.

Delonte's deal is non-guaranteed, as is Darnell Jackson's.  It's unlikely Jackson will be back; who knows about Delonte.  Let's look at both scenarios.

If Delonte comes back, their payroll goes up to $37.85.  Additionally, they'd have a cap hold to fill out the other eight roster spots.  That cap hold is $473,604 for each player, or $3.79 million.  That brings total team salary up to $41.64 million.  Under a $58 million cap scenario, that would leave the team with roughly $16.36 million and since I've been rounding up, they may have a little more space than that). That's just below a max contract amount for players with 7+ years in the NBA..  The team should, however, be able to offer a max deal to somebody with 6 or fewer seasons.

If Delonte *doesn't* come back, we have no idea how much of his contract is guaranteed.  Let's assume that roughly 1/3 of it is (as with Pavlovic this season).  That means they'd subtract $3 million from their payroll, but would have to add an additional cap hold.  Their salary would be $39.11; under a $58 million cap, they'd have enough to offer a max deal ($18.89 million in space.)

Of course, the margin of error is small.  The above scenario means no free agents signings, no draft picks, etc., extending into 2010-11, and it also means renouncing any of their own free agents.

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