Author Topic: Cavs future?  (Read 36062 times)

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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2009, 09:13:17 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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Since I'm confident that Danny Ferry doesn't read this message board, here's what I do if I'm Cleveland.

Trade Ben Wallace for Vince Carter.

Cleveland gets a real sidekick to Lebron and NJ gets under the cap and away from that awful contract.  When Vince brings it, there aren't that many better than him.  With Lebron being the "leader," Vince can really prosper.

Cle starting lineup

Mo Williams
VC
Lebron
Andy
Big Z

Bench
West
Boobi
Hickson
Other SF to replace Wally

Dangerous team, talent wise

Won't happen.  Trading for Vince takes the Cavs out of the Bosh running.  They won't do that.  The Cavs will make as big of an offer as possible for Bosh this year, and if they can't get him through trade they will offer him a max deal after next year.  The Cavs know that they need a second star to go with Lebron.  Bosh and Lebron are close and Lebron wants him on the Cavs 

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2009, 10:30:09 PM »

Offline winsomme

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Since I'm confident that Danny Ferry doesn't read this message board, here's what I do if I'm Cleveland.

Trade Ben Wallace for Vince Carter.

Cleveland gets a real sidekick to Lebron and NJ gets under the cap and away from that awful contract.  When Vince brings it, there aren't that many better than him.  With Lebron being the "leader," Vince can really prosper.

Cle starting lineup

Mo Williams
VC
Lebron
Andy
Big Z

Bench
West
Boobi
Hickson
Other SF to replace Wally

Dangerous team, talent wise

Won't happen.  Trading for Vince takes the Cavs out of the Bosh running.  They won't do that.  The Cavs will make as big of an offer as possible for Bosh this year, and if they can't get him through trade they will offer him a max deal after next year.  The Cavs know that they need a second star to go with Lebron.  Bosh and Lebron are close and Lebron wants him on the Cavs 

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe this has already been answered, but how can CLE realistically make a max deal offer to Bosh.

If they add any decent contracts beyond next year, they are out of the running for Bosh, no?

they're are something like 36 mil going into 2010/11 now right? With the cap looming in the low to mid 50's mil, doesn't that mean no Z, no Varejao and now MLE signings in this off season?

is CLE really going to go into next season with a weaker team than the one that just lost to ORL?

That seems so risky to me given that they would have no assurance of Bosh coming here after  next season.

am i right about the money on this? can someone else break it down how CLE can actually not go into the season next year with a weaker team and still have the money to go after Bosh?

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2009, 10:32:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How about a three team trade

Cleveland gets
Chris Bosh
Marcus Banks
Jason Richardson (Barbosa would also work salary wise, if you removed West below, just depends on how much salary Phoenix wants to cut)

Toronto gets
Amare Stoudemire
Daniel Gibson or Delonte West

Phoenix gets
Ben Wallace
Alex Pavlovic
JJ Hickson
Delonte West or Daniel Gibson (neither if Barbosa instead of Richardson)
Cle 2009 first
Cle 2011 first
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2009, 11:07:27 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Since I'm confident that Danny Ferry doesn't read this message board, here's what I do if I'm Cleveland.

Trade Ben Wallace for Vince Carter.

Cleveland gets a real sidekick to Lebron and NJ gets under the cap and away from that awful contract.  When Vince brings it, there aren't that many better than him.  With Lebron being the "leader," Vince can really prosper.

Cle starting lineup

Mo Williams
VC
Lebron
Andy
Big Z

Bench
West
Boobi
Hickson
Other SF to replace Wally

Dangerous team, talent wise

Won't happen.  Trading for Vince takes the Cavs out of the Bosh running.  They won't do that.  The Cavs will make as big of an offer as possible for Bosh this year, and if they can't get him through trade they will offer him a max deal after next year.  The Cavs know that they need a second star to go with Lebron.  Bosh and Lebron are close and Lebron wants him on the Cavs 

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe this has already been answered, but how can CLE realistically make a max deal offer to Bosh.

If they add any decent contracts beyond next year, they are out of the running for Bosh, no?

they're are something like 36 mil going into 2010/11 now right? With the cap looming in the low to mid 50's mil, doesn't that mean no Z, no Varejao and now MLE signings in this off season?

is CLE really going to go into next season with a weaker team than the one that just lost to ORL?

That seems so risky to me given that they would have no assurance of Bosh coming here after  next season.

am i right about the money on this? can someone else break it down how CLE can actually not go into the season next year with a weaker team and still have the money to go after Bosh?

As long as they don't add contracts for more than one year (except Varejão) they'll have plenty of room to offer a FA a max contract, unless the salary cap drops drastically (and in that case, they're in great shape in the trade market, with so many expiring contracts). What's the problem with Z? He'll pick up his option but his contract ends next season.

They'll probably use the MLE and sign someone for a season, plus use their LLE to sign another player in a multiple year deal.


Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2009, 11:18:04 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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How about a three team trade

Cleveland gets
Chris Bosh
Marcus Banks
Jason Richardson (Barbosa would also work salary wise, if you removed West below, just depends on how much salary Phoenix wants to cut)

Toronto gets
Amare Stoudemire
Daniel Gibson or Delonte West

Phoenix gets
Ben Wallace
Alex Pavlovic
JJ Hickson
Delonte West or Daniel Gibson (neither if Barbosa instead of Richardson)
Cle 2009 first
Cle 2011 first

Why do Toronto and Phoenix do that deal?

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2009, 11:29:20 PM »

Offline Who

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I don't know, I was just doing the math and it's close.

Say the cap is $60mil in 2010 -- LeBron and the max contract free agent get 30% of the cap each, so that's $36mil off the table. There's another $14.8mil tied up in Mo Williams, Gibson and Hickson ($50.8mil). Another $500k in Delonte's partial guaranteed contract ($51.3mil). Then add in Varejao at $6.7 (make the numbers round!) million ($58mil).Then the cap charge for open roster spots ($2.85mil).  That's a little under $61 million.

Those cap charges for open roster spots, and Delonte's partially guaranteed contract, eat into that cap space. When you start looking at giving Varejao an increase, it gets tight very quick. This is with the Cavs dumping two first round draft picks, and dropping Delonte + Jackson from the team.

Do I have that right? Or have I made a mistake somewhere?

If I have it right, I think the Cavs should sell of Gibson with a draft pick or two, to give themselves enough wiggle room to avoid having to worry about this.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2009, 11:38:35 PM »

Offline waltzero

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Summer 2010: Lebron leaves Cleveland to sign a 500 million dollar contract with the Guangdong Tigers.

Fall 2010: Cleveland gives up...completely. No resident of Cleveland has gotten out of bed since Lebron left. When asked to declare Cleveland a disaster area, the Mayor (from his bedroom) says "ok, it's a disaster area." When told it involves paper work, he locks himself in his bathroom.

Spring 2011: Residents are being studied by scientists trying to understand the strange, catatonic, hibernation like state that has allowed them to survive on nothing but an occasional stale waffle.

Summer 2011: Fema moves all residents of the city formerly known as Cleveland to Pittsburgh, which becomes Pittsburghland.

Fall 2011: Lebron's contract is now worth 4 billion from the falling US dollar.

2012: The abandoned Cleveland is condemned and flattened. Most of the land is sold to Canada who uses it to store maple syrup awaiting US distribution. A small section of what was down town Cleveland is renamed 'Fail Boat' and a statue of Lebron, waist deep in a pile of money, taking it in the butt from the Devil, with a civil war battlefield style plaque, is the only constructed object.

2015: Dwight Howard develops a second post move.

2020: Lebron celebrates his 10th MVP and Championship with Guangdong. The tears of a million children have worn a well 50 feet deep in front of the statue in Fail Boat.

2050: the wealthiest man alive, but unhappy, Lebron travels back in time to give his young self a 2050 sports almanac.

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2009, 06:39:42 AM »

Offline Moranis

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How about a three team trade

Cleveland gets
Chris Bosh
Marcus Banks
Jason Richardson (Barbosa would also work salary wise, if you removed West below, just depends on how much salary Phoenix wants to cut)

Toronto gets
Amare Stoudemire
Daniel Gibson or Delonte West

Phoenix gets
Ben Wallace
Alex Pavlovic
JJ Hickson
Delonte West or Daniel Gibson (neither if Barbosa instead of Richardson)
Cle 2009 first
Cle 2011 first

Why do Toronto and Phoenix do that deal?
phoenix to save money.  toronto isn't any worse, not sure what the issue is from their end.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2009, 07:01:17 AM »

Offline JBcat

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How about a three team trade

Cleveland gets
Chris Bosh
Marcus Banks
Jason Richardson (Barbosa would also work salary wise, if you removed West below, just depends on how much salary Phoenix wants to cut)

Toronto gets
Amare Stoudemire
Daniel Gibson or Delonte West

Phoenix gets
Ben Wallace
Alex Pavlovic
JJ Hickson
Delonte West or Daniel Gibson (neither if Barbosa instead of Richardson)
Cle 2009 first
Cle 2011 first

Why do Toronto and Phoenix do that deal?
phoenix to save money.  toronto isn't any worse, not sure what the issue is from their end.

I think Phoenix could find a better deal if you ask me.  They only get 1 starter out of the deal in West who maybe is best suited for the first guard off the bench, 2 end of the first round picks, and 2 players Pavolic and Hickson who will most likely never be starters on a good team.  Even if they are just looking to purely save money I think they could do much better if they are giving up Stoudemire AND Richardson.   

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2009, 09:22:32 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Since I'm confident that Danny Ferry doesn't read this message board, here's what I do if I'm Cleveland.

Trade Ben Wallace for Vince Carter.

Cleveland gets a real sidekick to Lebron and NJ gets under the cap and away from that awful contract.  When Vince brings it, there aren't that many better than him.  With Lebron being the "leader," Vince can really prosper.

Cle starting lineup

Mo Williams
VC
Lebron
Andy
Big Z

Bench
West
Boobi
Hickson
Other SF to replace Wally

Dangerous team, talent wise

Won't happen.  Trading for Vince takes the Cavs out of the Bosh running.  They won't do that.  The Cavs will make as big of an offer as possible for Bosh this year, and if they can't get him through trade they will offer him a max deal after next year.  The Cavs know that they need a second star to go with Lebron.  Bosh and Lebron are close and Lebron wants him on the Cavs 

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe this has already been answered, but how can CLE realistically make a max deal offer to Bosh.

If they add any decent contracts beyond next year, they are out of the running for Bosh, no?

they're are something like 36 mil going into 2010/11 now right? With the cap looming in the low to mid 50's mil, doesn't that mean no Z, no Varejao and now MLE signings in this off season?

is CLE really going to go into next season with a weaker team than the one that just lost to ORL?

That seems so risky to me given that they would have no assurance of Bosh coming here after  next season.

am i right about the money on this? can someone else break it down how CLE can actually not go into the season next year with a weaker team and still have the money to go after Bosh?

As long as they don't add contracts for more than one year (except Varejão) they'll have plenty of room to offer a FA a max contract, unless the salary cap drops drastically (and in that case, they're in great shape in the trade market, with so many expiring contracts). What's the problem with Z? He'll pick up his option but his contract ends next season.

They'll probably use the MLE and sign someone for a season, plus use their LLE to sign another player in a multiple year deal.



but that's my point, how do you sign Varejao? They're at 36 mil without him.

plus, the high quality FAs are going to want more the a one year deal. So how do you replace Varejao with one year MLE deals?

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2009, 09:40:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Since I'm confident that Danny Ferry doesn't read this message board, here's what I do if I'm Cleveland.

Trade Ben Wallace for Vince Carter.

Cleveland gets a real sidekick to Lebron and NJ gets under the cap and away from that awful contract.  When Vince brings it, there aren't that many better than him.  With Lebron being the "leader," Vince can really prosper.

Cle starting lineup

Mo Williams
VC
Lebron
Andy
Big Z

Bench
West
Boobi
Hickson
Other SF to replace Wally

Dangerous team, talent wise

Won't happen.  Trading for Vince takes the Cavs out of the Bosh running.  They won't do that.  The Cavs will make as big of an offer as possible for Bosh this year, and if they can't get him through trade they will offer him a max deal after next year.  The Cavs know that they need a second star to go with Lebron.  Bosh and Lebron are close and Lebron wants him on the Cavs 

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe this has already been answered, but how can CLE realistically make a max deal offer to Bosh.

If they add any decent contracts beyond next year, they are out of the running for Bosh, no?

they're are something like 36 mil going into 2010/11 now right? With the cap looming in the low to mid 50's mil, doesn't that mean no Z, no Varejao and now MLE signings in this off season?

is CLE really going to go into next season with a weaker team than the one that just lost to ORL?

That seems so risky to me given that they would have no assurance of Bosh coming here after  next season.

am i right about the money on this? can someone else break it down how CLE can actually not go into the season next year with a weaker team and still have the money to go after Bosh?

As long as they don't add contracts for more than one year (except Varejão) they'll have plenty of room to offer a FA a max contract, unless the salary cap drops drastically (and in that case, they're in great shape in the trade market, with so many expiring contracts). What's the problem with Z? He'll pick up his option but his contract ends next season.

They'll probably use the MLE and sign someone for a season, plus use their LLE to sign another player in a multiple year deal.



but that's my point, how do you sign Varejao? They're at 36 mil without him.

plus, the high quality FAs are going to want more the a one year deal. So how do you replace Varejao with one year MLE deals?
they are at 36 million with LBJ's player option.  If he opts out, isn't his free agent hold number actually more than the player option and thus they are even less under the cap.  They can't sign two max free agents (LBJ and someone else) unless they trade for the guy this summer (i.e. Bosh) or unload guys like West, Gibson, or Williams.
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Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2009, 09:46:35 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Unless they give AV a big raise, AND sign someone for the MLE for a multi-year deal they will be able to sign LBJ and another max free agent.

I doubt they'll do anything to screw that up unless its to get someone as good as Bosh/Wade/Amare/etc...

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2009, 09:51:39 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Unless they give AV a big raise, AND sign someone for the MLE for a multi-year deal they will be able to sign LBJ and another max free agent.

I doubt they'll do anything to screw that up unless its to get someone as good as Bosh/Wade/Amare/etc...

well, what's a big raise?

he made 6 mil last season. Even if they re-signed him for that for two seasons + , that puts CLE in the 42 mil-range. Any raise over 6 puts them even higher than 42 million.

If Moranis is right about the cap hold, them i don't see how they can offer a max deal....

Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2009, 10:03:58 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Re: Cavs future?
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2009, 10:06:21 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Unless they give AV a big raise, AND sign someone for the MLE for a multi-year deal they will be able to sign LBJ and another max free agent.

I doubt they'll do anything to screw that up unless its to get someone as good as Bosh/Wade/Amare/etc...

well, what's a big raise?

he made 6 mil last season. Even if they re-signed him for that for two seasons + , that puts CLE in the 42 mil-range. Any raise over 6 puts them even higher than 42 million.

If Moranis is right about the cap hold, them i don't see how they can offer a max deal....
They will have cap room. I just looked at their hoopshype salary page here.

They are at 18 million without LBJ, that includes Delonte's full 4 million. Because his contract is only partially guarenteed that gives them the wiggle room.

LBJ's cap hold will be 130% of his previous year's salary.