Cleveland vs Atlanta

[LarBrd33]

what's wrong with Horford's ankle?  Tell him to stop being a baby and get out there.  Rajon Rondo doesn't even need ankles to play basketball.

[xmuscularghandix]

How is 0 wins in your last 50 games against a team .600 or higher at full strength a cherry picked stat? Really 0? Shouldn't it at least be a few. Honestly, what is impressive about that? It is a 50 game stretch. Name 1 example where something similiar to that has happened before in the history of sports. Until you do that, everything I am saying is correct.  Yes Lebron is one of the greatest ever and the Cavs are a great team. However if you really are that great you should be beating quality opponents at full strength and this is nowhere near from happening. Simple and plain, they are just not playing anybody quality.

It is a cherry-picked stat because no team is 100% at the end of the season.  Even the ones that have all of their players on paper might have smaller injuries i.e. sprained ankles, etc. that guys try to play through.  Just for kicks, though, here's a few injuries from each team still in the playoffs to prove that nobody's at full strength:

Boston:  No KG, Powe
Cleveland:  Pavlovic has a broken nose, playing with a mask
Atlanta:  Horford and Marvin Williams in-and-out, Joe Johnson will be hobbled for the rest of the playoffs
Orlando:  No Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee has a fractured sinus and will be wearing a mask
Houston:  No McGrady
LA:  Bynum hasn't recovered from the torn MCL, Luke Walton is battling an ankle injury
Dallas:  Josh Howard has ankle problems
 
So far, all you've proven is that the Cavs are a bit lucky - with the exception of Denver, they're the only team still in the playoffs and more or less completely healthy at this point in time.  Other than that, your statistic means absolutely squat.  Unless you want to tell me that our Championship last year wasn't impressive because LA didn't have Bynum?  Didn't think so.

I'm done with this argument for tonight, though - it's 2 in the morning and I've got a Macroeconomics assignment to finish before I hit the sack.

Houston losing McGrady is whats made them good, imagine if TMac was in charge or guarding Kobe? how can you possibly consider that a problem.

It's a problem because they have nobody to score in the fourth quarter without him.  He was their only guy they could give the ball to, say "make something happen," and expect positive results.  Their lack of that guy is the reason they've lost 5 of 6 to the Lakers this year. 

TMAC is overrated and is a weakness to their team. Dump in into Yao, maybe run a play, give it to Ron, their PG can score too. TMac is the reason why we beat Houston earlier in the year. McGrady cover Pierce then we'll go to 34, oh they switched not Tmacs covering Ray... lets go to Ray now. Every team does it, at least all the ones that are still alive.

[Atzar]

Its not a cherry picked stat because it covers a span of 50 games. That is too long of a stretch to go through to say that it is cherry picked. This covers more than half the season. Your injury example isn't promising because Pavlocic is a #10 best player on the team while everybody else has a Top 3 or 4 with Bynum being a Top 5 missing. This compares in no way to the Celtics championship team of 07-08 when they won 8 games at the end of the season against .600 or better teams missing only one opposing player the great Andrew Bynum. The statistic shows what it is, it is a better evaluation of the overall play of the team when compared to the media speculation. The only way you could prove the stat to mean squat is to show another example of a team throughout sports history that has had simliar statistics and I have yet to find any.

What would finding another example prove?  That it's happened before?  How about every other team in the NBA this year?  They've all played against the same teams.  Every team has had a big injury this year.  Phoenix has no Stoudemire.  OKC lost Durant for awhile, New Orleans spent a lot of time without Chandler.  No Brand for Philly, no O'Neal for Toronto/Miami, no Monta/Biedrins for Golden State, I could go on and on.  Injuries happened to everybody, and to discount all of Cleveland's wins because 'they beat teams that weren't 100%' means you also have to discount the Celtics' wins for the same reason.  This is why I don't think the stat means anything.

How is 0 wins in your last 50 games against a team .600 or higher at full strength a cherry picked stat? Really 0? Shouldn't it at least be a few. Honestly, what is impressive about that? It is a 50 game stretch. Name 1 example where something similiar to that has happened before in the history of sports. Until you do that, everything I am saying is correct.  Yes Lebron is one of the greatest ever and the Cavs are a great team. However if you really are that great you should be beating quality opponents at full strength and this is nowhere near from happening. Simple and plain, they are just not playing anybody quality.

It is a cherry-picked stat because no team is 100% at the end of the season.  Even the ones that have all of their players on paper might have smaller injuries i.e. sprained ankles, etc. that guys try to play through.  Just for kicks, though, here's a few injuries from each team still in the playoffs to prove that nobody's at full strength:

Boston:  No KG, Powe
Cleveland:  Pavlovic has a broken nose, playing with a mask
Atlanta:  Horford and Marvin Williams in-and-out, Joe Johnson will be hobbled for the rest of the playoffs
Orlando:  No Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee has a fractured sinus and will be wearing a mask
Houston:  No McGrady
LA:  Bynum hasn't recovered from the torn MCL, Luke Walton is battling an ankle injury
Dallas:  Josh Howard has ankle problems
 
So far, all you've proven is that the Cavs are a bit lucky - with the exception of Denver, they're the only team still in the playoffs and more or less completely healthy at this point in time.  Other than that, your statistic means absolutely squat.  Unless you want to tell me that our Championship last year wasn't impressive because LA didn't have Bynum?  Didn't think so.

I'm done with this argument for tonight, though - it's 2 in the morning and I've got a Macroeconomics assignment to finish before I hit the sack.

Houston losing McGrady is whats made them good, imagine if TMac was in charge or guarding Kobe? how can you possibly consider that a problem.

It's a problem because they have nobody to score in the fourth quarter without him.  He was their only guy they could give the ball to, say "make something happen," and expect positive results.  Their lack of that guy is the reason they've lost 5 of 6 to the Lakers this year. 

TMAC is overrated and is a weakness to their team. Dump in into Yao, maybe run a play, give it to Ron, their PG can score too. TMac is the reason why we beat Houston earlier in the year. McGrady cover Pierce then we'll go to 34, oh they switched not Tmacs covering Ray... lets go to Ray now. Every team does it, at least all the ones that are still alive.

TMac was already injured and couldn't play defense when we faced him.  That's why we attacked him.  I'm not saying he's a defensive ace by any means, but he's better than he showed in that game.  Besides, they'd probably stick him on Ariza/Walton/Vujacic to hide him and give Kobe to Ron Ron or Battier, the latter of whom has had success in the past against Kobe. 

By the way, I love how you took one line out of my argument and used it to create a whole new argument that has nothing to do with what we were discussing. 

what's wrong with Horford's ankle?  Tell him to stop being a baby and get out there.  Rajon Rondo doesn't even need ankles to play basketball.

****, TP.

[star18]

Cleveland's wins aren't discounted, they won a lot of games during the time period there just aren't the games that I mentioned, healthy +.600.  Yes almost every team has injuries, however many teams do play games close enough to 100% throughout the season.  The Celtics wins wouldn't be discounted either, the fact is Celtics have 11 for the whole season, Cavs have 5. When you can go back throughout the history of sports and show other examples of that many games being played without key players and teams that have won championships you would see that the teams that have won championships have at one time or another won many games against quality opponents. That is a true stat to give a better evaluation of a teams performance throughout the season. 

[Atzar]

Cleveland's wins aren't discounted, they won a lot of games during the time period there just aren't the games that I mentioned, healthy +.600.  Yes almost every team has injuries, however many teams do play games close enough to 100% throughout the season.  The Celtics wins wouldn't be discounted either, the fact is Celtics have 11 for the whole season, Cavs have 5. When you can go back throughout the history of sports and show other examples of that many games being played without key players and teams that have won championships you would see that the teams that have won championships have at one time or another won many games against quality opponents. That is a true stat to give a better evaluation of a teams performance throughout the season. 

Ok, the Celtics have 11 wins by that statistic, the Cavs have 5.  You think it says that the Cavs are paper tigers and haven't played anybody... I just think it means most teams spend most of the season battling injuries and the Cavs got luckier than some teams.  It does nothing to prove that the Cavs aren't as good as they look, or that the Celtics are better than they look. 

I must be tired... how in the world did I end up defending the Cavs?! 

[star18]

I must be tired... how in the world did I end up defending the Cavs?!  -Starbury#18

[ACF]

When a team is 6-0 in the playoffs,
you have to respect that. You have to.
After six games last year, we were 3-3.

[kheeko]

When a team is 6-0 in the playoffs,
you have to respect that. You have to.
After six games last year, we were 3-3.

credit goes mostly to Lebron though, imagine if he was injured where theyd stand

[star18]

I respect the team, but I do not respect the calls on Lebron. People on the Hawks blog were talking about the same thing. Star treatment used to be you get to go to the line on questionable calls, now they are taking it to a whole other level. 29 fouls in 27 games I do not respect that. It is impossible. Nothing even close has ever happened before in the history of the game. It mathmatecially doesn't happen. Again these aren't points or rebounds or something that has much more to do with a players performance, this is about foul calls. If the 1 foul per game streak continues there is going to be an investigation into this matter. In the 2 Hawks games, he hit Josh Smith in the head 3 separate times, knocked him down twice, knocked Bibby down once. Those were 5 separate plays, 0 fouls called. And I would respect Lebron and the calls if he did one thing. Not complain. Yet after his 1st foul call of the series he jumped up and down and ran around half the court. It is acting and cheating, it is not basketball. You either get the 1 foul per game or you complain, you don't get the 1 foul per game AND complain. Josh Smith is a star too he is a good basketball player he does not deserve to be disrespected like he was in Game 2, AND he got hit with a technical after taking 3 blows to the head.

[star18]

MJ and Lebron's numbers are consistent because they usually play a high number of minutes per game and play almost every game of the season. Here are MJ's foul numbers in 20 game intervals in his last 6 years with the Bulls:56,60,48,58,59,53,45,44,41,53,54,40,60,43,45,43,38,33,37,39,38,31,34,42.
Here are Lebron's foul numbers in 20 game intervals in his 1st 6 years in the league:41,33,42,35,34,44,31,37,53,41,41,46,38,43,45,46,43,46,44,43,40,39,37,22. Now MJ is basically the greatest player ever who got the most superstar treatment than anyone in league history.  Does one of the numbers look funny to you.  How can anybody possibly explain a 22?

[markketch]

Star18 needs to put down the bottle and relax.

How can you explain "22" and the degression in foul quantity?

Very easily - as a player gets better defensively, his fouls are likely to decline.  Throughout the entire season, LeBron has improved his defense (hence 1st Team All Defense, 2nd DPOY), so is it really that surprising his fouls have decreased? Not at all.

Maybe you missed it, or maybe you just chose to ignore it because you have no good response:

LeBron : 37.7 mins, 1.7 PFs, 10 techs
Andre Iguodala : 39.9 mins, 1.9 PFs, 4 techs
Kevin Durant : 39.0 mins, 1.8 PFs, 1 tech
Brandon Roy : 37.2 mins, 1.6 PFs, 2 techs
Derrick Rose : 37.0 mins, 1.5 PFs, no techs
Allen Iverson : 36.7 mins, 1.5 PFs, 5 techs
Jamal Crawford : 38.1 mins, 1.4 PFs, 4 techs
Tayshaun Prince : 37.3 mins, 1.3 PFs, no techs

Where are you posts complaining about these guys?

I also suggest reading: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-40-30/Cleveland-Has-LeBron-James--Back--Referees-Less-So.html

Of course LeBron is going to get the benefit on calls, especially at home.  We saw this last night on two or three plays.

Perkins had a game against Chicago where he played 50 minutes and didn't committ a single foul, while accumulating 7 blocks. Where the refs favoring him also?

Give it a break...

[dlpin]

The difference is that other than Iguodala and Prince, none of the others you mentioned play any defense.

Lebron leads his team in steals, is second in blocks, and on the other end leads his team in FTA, and still manages to average less than 2 fouls a game. That can only happen if the guy is given every single 50-50 call.

He is 7th in the league in steal-to-foul ratio, and none of the 6 above him average more than 0.5 a block a game or get to the line 8 times a night.

[star18]

"Very easily - as a player gets better defensively, his fouls are likely to decline" That is a complete joke, all of a sudden in his last 27 games he improved that much while there is videotape all over the place of him knocking people to the ground and hitting them in the face?  How come all of his other numbers didn't increase? How come his blocks didn't double? How come his steals didn't double? How come MJ never had such a "getting better defensively?" This is a complete joke.   Even the other players who have low fouls per game have consistent numbers you can see in those other 39 intervals there is a high of 60 and a low of 31 with an average of about 42. 22 is nowhere near that and you're saying he is playing better defensivley. Really? Isn't this the best player in the game for the past 6 years and all of a sudden in his past 27 games he is playing twice as good as the best player in the game? What a joke. Did you see him hit Josh Smith in the head 3 times in Game 2? How come his other numbers haven't drastically increased if he is playing "so much better" defensively in his last 29 games.  What a complete cheating joke.

[star18]

Nothing, absoluetly nothing in Lebron James' career has anything "improved" as you suggest with such a drastic percentage increase.   Nothing, not points, not rebounds, not blocks, not game score, not free throw attempts, not steals, not FG% not FT%, nothing.  Absolutely nothing, and you say he his playing better defensively, what a joke.  Where are all the other ridiculous stat increases that have much more to do with performance than a refs call? They are not there so you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Did you see him knock down Vince Carter in NJ? No because you are exactly like the refs, making up stuff.

[MMacOH]

Nothing, absoluetly nothing in Lebron James' career has anything "improved" as you suggest with such a drastic percentage increase.   Nothing, not points, not rebounds, not blocks, not game score, not free throw attempts, not steals, not FG% not FT%, nothing.  Absolutely nothing, and you say he his playing better defensively, what a joke.  Where are all the other ridiculous stat increases that have much more to do with performance than a refs call? They are not there so you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Did you see him knock down Vince Carter in NJ? No because you are exactly like the refs, making up stuff.

Yep, you're right, Lebron hasn't improved at all.  Any improvement you see from him is because the refs let him get away with everything.     Wow........just wow