Flagrant Foul from Rondo on Brad Miller??

[Cs09Champs]

There's a double standard applied when higher seeded teams aledgedly commits hard fouls.Remember T.Thomas having a "fit"back a few games ago,mugging BBD and going crazy on players.Did the media or the league make a big deal out of it?Nope,we never heard anymore about it.Its always when the higher seeded team that aledgedly does the wrong,when it becomes a BIG deal.

Agree 100%. Also don't forget the punch that BBD took from Miller in Game 4.

[crownsy]

If Rondo gets suspensed for this foul it will be clear that the NBA wants the Bulls to win the series, especially when you consider than Brad Miller didn't get any suspension for his foul on BBD during game 4.

This is one of the silliest things I have ever read.  Yes, the NBA wants the mega market Celtics out in the first round, give me a break.

Rondo will most likely be suspended considering he wound up and swung at Miller from behind and hit him in the head.  That was a flagrant foul.

If that play was reversed and it was BBD going up for the layup and Rose hit him like that, about 85% of the people on this board would be crying 'conspiracy'

He's not going to be suspended for a flagrant 1, which everyone seems to agree this was at worst. that's ridiculous.

Players get suspended in the playoffs for flagrant 2's, which are fouls with a clear intent to injure, like the elbow dhoward threw into a guys chops after staring at him for a good second or so. The NBA is not going to suspend a point guard trying to block a shot from someone who is 3 times his size from behind and hitting his head instead of ball with 2 seconds left in a pivotal game.

They may upgrade it to a flagrant 1 and fine him, which i guess would be alright, since that's the letter of the law on flagrant 1's.

keep on hoping though MAC

[rondo987]

Okay, we'll say it was a flagrant...Miller missed his first free throw.  We'll say that he makes his second free throw, for argument's sake.  They're still down by 1 with :02 on the clock.  They still would have had to pull off a crazy shot.  This call by no means decided the game.  

In fact, if Miller makes his free throws, the game is tied.  The game was entirely in his hands and he blew it.  He would have a beef if there was no foul called at all, but you can't cry about not getting a flagrant.  Flagrant fouls are completely up for interpretation anyway.  And I love how he wasn't dizzy until immediately after he missed the free throw.  Give me a break.  He thought that it was hilarious when Ray got fouled out for that BS call in the 4th, which was actually a moving pick, but this was apparently unacceptable.

I will agree that the officiating has been inconsistent on both ends.  But the refs didn't lose this game for the Bulls...they had Game 5 wrapped up with 5 minutes to go in the 4th on a visibly worn and Ray Allen-less Celtics team.  Their complacency and inexperience is what lost it for them.

Here's your first TP. I couldn't have said it better myself. IMO, that wasn't a flagrant. Obviously, Rondo meant to foul, but he did not mean to hit him accross the face (which was awesome btw). Like many people have already said, bad karma Brad.

[rickyfan3.0...]

FLAGRANT

[Weird Facts]

You look at it this way.

Flagrant fouls are generally called when it is a malicious foul, or more than what was necessary to stop the play was done.

I highly doubt Rondo was intending to hurt Brad Miller in any way.  He was trying to stop a lay-up that would tie the game.

When a pitcher deliberately throws the ball near someones head, he is out of the game.  However, he could throw the same exact pitch by accident and stay in the game.

This is how the Flagrant call is intended to be called, malicious intent is one thing, trying to save or win a game is completely different.

In the end, if the refs botched the call it was certainly not a flagrant foul, if anything it was an intentional foul. 
If anyone is going to say Rondo was stupid enough to commit a hard foul with 2 seconds on the clock they are just dumb.

The refs botched a lot of calls this game, particularly 3 of Ray Allen's 6 fouls.  Ben Gordon jumps into his defender every time he shoots not giving the defended his rightful space.

There is so much to argue about in the officiating.  Bottom line is, if you are an official and it is the last play of the game.

You do everything you can to allow the players to determine the outcome of the game.  That's what they did.

Brad Miller had the opportunity to tie the game and he did not.  Too bad.

[vwoodruff]

I think there are some points that are being exaggerated here...

#1 - The only argument that could be made is for a flagrant 1. There is no way that Rondo is getting suspended a game for this.

#2 - Brad Miller's altercation with BBD was not as bad as some of you guys are describing. I am a lifelong homer, but even I can recognize that BBD did a sweet Hulk Hogan impersonation with the backward flail from the supposed Miller forearm shiver.

That being said... I don't see the play as being a flagrant. It looks like Rondo is taking a hard swipe for Miller's arm and misses.

Earlier in the thread, Hobbs mentions the lack of consistency between bigs and smalls in the flagrant department - there's a reason. Bigs can take more of a punishment (this is coming from someone who's spent their life in the paint) without getting their bodies thrown out of control. That makes a huge difference. It sucks for the big guy, but when you're large, one of the first lessons you have to learn is the magnitude of your owns strength, esp. vis-a-vis smaller guys.

Man, a bloody lip is part of the game if you play inside. Bigs never get the calls of littles so you learn to toughen up and make shots with the contact. I doubt Miller is complaining that it should have been a flagrant; I'm sure he's p---ed he missed the freebies.

[acieEarl]

This wouldn't even have been an issue if Rondo didn't draw blood. If you get stuck with an ET finger your going to bleed. Not like he pulled his head down. just stuck him with an ET finger.

Not a flagrant. Make your free throws and stop your crying.

[rondo987]

I think there are some points that are being exaggerated here...

#1 - The only argument that could be made is for a flagrant 1. There is no way that Rondo is getting suspended a game for this.

#2 - Brad Miller's altercation with BBD was not as bad as some of you guys are describing. I am a lifelong homer, but even I can recognize that BBD did a sweet Hulk Hogan impersonation with the backward flail from the supposed Miller forearm shiver.

That being said... I don't see the play as being a flagrant. It looks like Rondo is taking a hard swipe for Miller's arm and misses.

Earlier in the thread, Hobbs mentions the lack of consistency between bigs and smalls in the flagrant department - there's a reason. Bigs can take more of a punishment (this is coming from someone who's spent their life in the paint) without getting their bodies thrown out of control. That makes a huge difference. It sucks for the big guy, but when you're large, one of the first lessons you have to learn is the magnitude of your owns strength, esp. vis-a-vis smaller guys.

Man, a bloody lip is part of the game if you play inside. Bigs never get the calls of littles so you learn to toughen up and make shots with the contact. I doubt Miller is complaining that it should have been a flagrant; I'm sure he's ****ed he missed the freebies.

You make good points... But Brad Miller (and Del Negro) were complaining about that call after the game. Hmm, I wonder if they will get fined? hahahaha, yeah right.

[Steve Weinman]

Yeah, it was probably a flagrant.  One thing I hate about the NBA is that the refs base calls like this on the size of the two players.  If BBD fouls somebody, making a play on the ball, he may get accessed a flagrant for "excessive contact" just because he's a big dude, and caused a big collision.  A small guy like Rondo, fouling a guy like Miller, is less likely to be called. 

If Miller had made the *exact* same play on Rondo, with the exact same amount of contact, Rondo would have went sprawling, Miller would have been ejected, and Celtics fans would be calling for his head.

  Has anyone besides Cassell been ejected for fouling Rondo? Because he's been fouled that bad or worse on a number of occasions, especially by bigger guys. And that's not counting DH taking a swing at Rajon with no consequences whatsoever.

If memory serves, I think Marvin Williams got the gate for horse-collaring him on a fast break in Game 7 of the Hawks series last year.

That Howard punching motion at him last year in the January game in Orlando (presuming that's what you were referring to) was absurd.

-sw

[vwoodruff]

You make good points... But Brad Miller (and Del Negro) were complaining about that call after the game. Hmm, I wonder if they will get fined? hahahaha, yeah right.

I didn't hear Miller's after game complaints... I know he was selling it immediately after the foul. That's part of the job.

And Vinny's gripes are part of his job, too. He's got to be out there advocating for an edge with the officials (Doc's been doing the same). On top of that, Del Negro was a perimeter player. He's going to be more astonished by it than say a Clifford Ray or Kevin McHale.

[angryguy77]

tp

[rondo987]

You make good points... But Brad Miller (and Del Negro) were complaining about that call after the game. Hmm, I wonder if they will get fined? hahahaha, yeah right.

I didn't hear Miller's after game complaints... I know he was selling it immediately after the foul. That's part of the job.

And Vinny's gripes are part of his job, too. He's got to be out there advocating for an edge with the officials (Doc's been doing the same). On top of that, Del Negro was a perimeter player. He's going to be more astonished by it than say a Clifford Ray or Kevin McHale.

from the chicago sun times...

Del Negro called for the league to review what he said should have been a flagrant foul on Rondo (28 points, 11 assists, eight rebounds).

''You have to go for the ball, and he didn't come near the ball,'' Del Negro said. ''He came right across his face. I thought it was a flagrant. I agree it is a playoff foul, but you still have to call it. I'm sure they'll take a look at it.''"


I couldn't find millers comments but I saw the postgame interview on espn.

[angryguy77]

You make good points... But Brad Miller (and Del Negro) were complaining about that call after the game. Hmm, I wonder if they will get fined? hahahaha, yeah right.

I didn't hear Miller's after game complaints... I know he was selling it immediately after the foul. That's part of the job.

And Vinny's gripes are part of his job, too. He's got to be out there advocating for an edge with the officials (Doc's been doing the same). On top of that, Del Negro was a perimeter player. He's going to be more astonished by it than say a Clifford Ray or Kevin McHale.

from the chicago sun times...

Del Negro called for the league to review what he said should have been a flagrant foul on Rondo (28 points, 11 assists, eight rebounds).

''You have to go for the ball, and he didn't come near the ball,'' Del Negro said. ''He came right across his face. I thought it was a flagrant. I agree it is a playoff foul, but you still have to call it. I'm sure they'll take a look at it.''"


I couldn't find millers comments but I saw the postgame interview on espn.

Millers comments said something to the effect of &^^%$&nliydMouth Hurts)(**&&^%%^&&*^%%%##)(**^dirty*&^&%%$8978707foul!

The reporter then asked miller to take the gauze out of his mouth because he sounded muffled. Miller complied but then asked for a tissue to help with his "allergies"

[MMacOH]

It was definitely a flagrant by definition of the foul.  I can see why it wasn't called since it was the end of the game.

I didn't see the game last night, but looking at that picture of Miller's free throw, did he even hit the rim?

So, how long until Rondo gets knocked down in game 6 at Chicago?  I say the first drive he makes he is getting hit, hard

[angryguy77]

It was definitely a flagrant by definition of the foul.  I can see why it wasn't called since it was the end of the game.

I didn't see the game last night, but looking at that picture of Miller's free throw, did he even hit the rim?

So, how long until Rondo gets knocked down in game 6 at Chicago?  I say the first drive he makes he is getting hit, hard

Your opinion. But the rule is written for interpretation. It is up to the refs to descide if its unnessesary contact which it was not as he was going for the ball. You think you could convince beyond resonable doubt?

Just because he hit him in the head while trying to make a play on the ball does not mean its a flagrant. Contact to the head happens everytime under the rim and by a strict interpretation would meant that even a grazing should be called a flagrant.

Like I have been saying all along, they do take intent into considertion.