Flagrant Foul from Rondo on Brad Miller??

[DanMan08]

I have a Flagrant Foul question- if Rondo had been assessed an F1 last night and Miller could not have shot the FT then Doc would have been able to choose who did, correct?  And with an F2 it would have been Vinny's choice?

No, if rondo had been given the flagrant 1 and miller couldnt shoot them, then chicago would've been able to pick.  However Miller would not have been able to return to the game. (love this rule, unlike college where they can put their best shooter in and then the guy can leave till the free throws are shot then check back in)

And yes, it was a flagrant, no play on the ball and a hit to the head is a flagrant.  If miller had hit rondo like that, it wouldve been a F1.  Just look at Ariza on rudy earlier in the year, Ariza hit the ball out of his hands and their arms got tangled, leading to rudy hitting the floor hard, not intentional but a F2 anyway.

Miller hit baby with an elbow....are you serious?  It was a little shoulder bump at most, so stop saying that, maybe you should actually watch the play?  Heinrich grabbed perkins around the neck, again are you serious?  He wrapped up his arms and did nothing excessive, didnt throw him down, just wrapped him up.  (The right way to prevent lay ups, not fish hooking a guy)

Allens fifth foul was pretty bs, but his sixth probably deserved the double foul, they got tangled up and it wasnt really a foul on either of them (he did set a good screen) it was just an unlucky play.  The calls have been pretty even and fair thus far, with both teams getting their share of non-calls (Perkins blatantly pushing every bulls big man out of bounds on every rebound)

All this said, the celtics won this game.  They stepped it up on D late and came up with some big shots from pierce.  If the bulls want to know why they lost this one, just look at the FG% from the celtics at teh start of the 4th and where they finished.  Midway through OT, i turned to my friend and asked "when was the last time the bulls got a stop?"  All in all, its the best first round series of all time and im just goin to sit back and enjoy it.

[Rondo_is_better]

I Like how this ESPN report on the foul is tinged with hatred and bitterness toward the Celtics. Real nice job on the objective reporting fellas. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4112697


Also, I'd like to say: I was at the game, and I thought the reffing was very balanced right up until we reached crunch time when it got really suspect.

I'd also like to apologize to all the small children who may have watched the game and heard the "BS" chant after Ray's 6th foul. I may or may not have had something to do with that.

[Roy Hobbs]

I have a Flagrant Foul question- if Rondo had been assessed an F1 last night and Miller could not have shot the FT then Doc would have been able to choose who did, correct?  And with an F2 it would have been Vinny's choice?

No, if rondo had been given the flagrant 1 and miller couldnt shoot them, then chicago would've been able to pick.  However Miller would not have been able to return to the game. (love this rule, unlike college where they can put their best shooter in and then the guy can leave till the free throws are shot then check back in)

This is correct, and I was wrong earlier.  The NBA apparently changed this rule a couple of seasons ago.  Link.  Looks like I owe an apology to Abbott and Hollinger.

[Steve Weinman]

I have a Flagrant Foul question- if Rondo had been assessed an F1 last night and Miller could not have shot the FT then Doc would have been able to choose who did, correct?  And with an F2 it would have been Vinny's choice?

No, if rondo had been given the flagrant 1 and miller couldnt shoot them, then chicago would've been able to pick.  However Miller would not have been able to return to the game. (love this rule, unlike college where they can put their best shooter in and then the guy can leave till the free throws are shot then check back in)

This is correct, and I was wrong earlier.  The NBA apparently changed this rule a couple of seasons ago.  Link.  Looks like I owe an apology to Abbott and Hollinger.

Win some, lose some, Roy, happens to all of us (says the guy who just referred to Isiah's new job as UCF instead of FIU) - thanks for staying on top of it and clarifying.

-sw

[Jon]

Of course what the media has overlooked is that a host of bad calls are what let this game go to overtime to begin with.  Horrible touch fouls called on Ray Allen.  Missing Ben Gordon stepping out of bounds on his game tying three.  If they don't botch those, there's no flagrant foul controversey. 

[Roy Hobbs]

I have a Flagrant Foul question- if Rondo had been assessed an F1 last night and Miller could not have shot the FT then Doc would have been able to choose who did, correct?  And with an F2 it would have been Vinny's choice?

No, if rondo had been given the flagrant 1 and miller couldnt shoot them, then chicago would've been able to pick.  However Miller would not have been able to return to the game. (love this rule, unlike college where they can put their best shooter in and then the guy can leave till the free throws are shot then check back in)

This is correct, and I was wrong earlier.  The NBA apparently changed this rule a couple of seasons ago.  Link.  Looks like I owe an apology to Abbott and Hollinger.

Win some, lose some, Roy, happens to all of us (says the guy who just referred to Isiah's new job as UCF instead of FIU) - thanks for staying on top of it and clarifying.

-sw

Haha.  I blame NBA.com completely.  They need to take the old rules off of their website.  If only they had a dedicated summer intern to correct this horrible oversight...

[DanMan08]

At least he got his name right, unlike the people who hired him.

[PeiffDawg]

There is no question this is a flagrant foul. Its sad, given the circumstance it wasnt called. The game tying lay up resulted in a uncalled flagrant foul with Miller shooting freethrows with a bloodied up mouth requiring stitches. And now the only reason the NBA isn't going to further punishment is to prevent ridicule and controversy in this series changing game. SAD!!

[Roy Hobbs]

There is no question this is a flagrant foul. Its sad, given the circumstance it wasnt called. The game tying lay up resulted in a uncalled flagrant foul with Miller shooting freethrows with a bloodied up mouth requiring stitches. And now the only reason the NBA isn't going to further punishment is to prevent ridicule and controversy in this series changing game. SAD!!

I'm not sure that I completely buy the "save face" justification.  I agree that it should have been a Flagrant 1.  However, if the NBA wanted to save face, why would they change the call on Dwight Howard, one of their biggest superstars?  Reversing a ref's call hasn't seemed to cause them a lot of embarrassment in the past.  (Also, didn't they admit that refs made the wrong call on the Brent Barry non-call last year, etc.?)

[PeiffDawg]

The Orlando game wasn't even close to this high intensity game. This entire series has been cut throat and for the final seconds of overtime to display the way it did, its very disappointing. Im a fan of neither team but if i was a Bulls fan i would be irrate.

[Casperian]

God, people are still arguing about this?

The league has seen the tape, and says no.

End of story.

[crownsy]

The Orlando game wasn't even close to this high intensity game. This entire series has been cut throat and for the final seconds of overtime to display the way it did, its very disappointing. Im a fan of neither team but if i was a Bulls fan i would be irrate.

Were still pretty irate about being without our best shooter for 11 minutes do to 3 phantom off the ball fouls, but i don't see anyone crying us a river, nor would they if miller had hit those FT's and we went on to lose.

NBA officiating sucks, period,  and sometimes it burns you and sometimes it helps. We've been burned plenty in this series, i have little remorse for bulls fans, just as they didnt when we had problems with the ref's in game 1 and 4.

[PeiffDawg]

You guys may sneak past the Bulls, as for the Cavs, you stand no chance!!

[crownsy]

You guys may sneak past the Bulls, as for the Cavs, you stand no chance!!

Hopefully we'll see, certainly without a full strength team, LBJ and friends will be quite a challenge.

[Roy Hobbs]

You guys may sneak past the Bulls, as for the Cavs, you stand no chance!!

Probably so, but we'll see.  It's an up-hill battle winning games without our two most productive power forwards (one of whom was DPOY last season and will be a first-ballot HOFer), but so far, the team is persevering.