16 Minutes of Hell

[winsomme]

this was always the potential problem with Marbury being our main acquisition.

If you think that Rondo is going to be getting 38-40 MPG in the playoffs, that leaves 8-10 MPG for Mar.

If you want more, then you have to play him at SG with Rondo. (which, by the way, almost eliminates House - who is probably our best bench player pre-Mar)

and at SG, depending on who the matchup is, Mar could be at a big disadvantage. people are mentioning Hermann...but what about Brandon Rush too?

so while Mar is probably the most talented player to have been moved of late here. His potential impact on a game is limited by the ways to get him on the floor and it  curtails time for Eddie - who has been the best bench player up till now...

I imagine that Doc could limit Rondo's minutes in the playoffs to get Mar more time at PG, but is it really in the best interest of the team to limit Rondo's minutes?

I think the long and the short of it is that we need another addition to the bench in the shape of a wing player....

that way Doc won't be trying to force minutes to one player and will actually have some options to get the best possible matchups...

bonzi, Kirk Snyder, Bryon Russell, (dare i mention it again) Robert Horry...

[Chief]

I don't like Eddie House playing as an off guard. I think it puts too much pressure on the team defensively, and on the backboards. I much prefer him as the point guard.

And I don't like him as a pg. Our offensive sets break down when he's running the team. So maybe he is the problem. Does his shooting out weigh all of his shortcomings?

[winsomme]

I don't like Eddie House playing as an off guard. I think it puts too much pressure on the team defensively, and on the backboards. I much prefer him as the point guard.

And I don't like him as a pg. Our offensive sets break down when he's running the team. So maybe he is the problem. Does his shooting out weigh all of his shortcomings?

it did last year...

[Chief]

As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

[celts55]

this was always the potential problem with Marbury being our main acquisition.

If you think that Rondo is going to be getting 38-40 MPG in the playoffs, that leaves 8-10 MPG for Mar.

If you want more, then you have to play him at SG with Rondo. (which, by the way, almost eliminates House - who is probably our best bench player pre-Mar)

and at SG, depending on who the matchup is, Mar could be at a big disadvantage. people are mentioning Hermann...but what about Brandon Rush too?

so while Mar is probably the most talented player to have been moved of late here. His potential impact on a game is limited by the ways to get him on the floor and it  curtails time for Eddie - who has been the best bench player up till now...

I imagine that Doc could limit Rondo's minutes in the playoffs to get Mar more time at PG, but is it really in the best interest of the team to limit Rondo's minutes?

I think the long and the short of it is that we need another addition to the bench in the shape of a wing player....

that way Doc won't be trying to force minutes to one player and will actually have some options to get the best possible matchups...

bonzi, Kirk Snyder, Bryon Russell, (dare i mention it again) Robert Horry...

I'm a little confused by some of this. You say that because Marbury is a defensive liablity because he has trouble guarding guys like Hermann or Rush, But that House is their best player off the bench. Does that mean you think that House can defend guys like these better that Marbury, because I would have to disagree, if that's your point. Lets face it, defense is not eddie's strong point either. To be honest, if I had to pick, I'd probably go with Marbury on D. At least he has some height. While I like the 3 point shooting Eddie brings to the game, I don't really think he brings that much more. I think Marbury can offset his scoring and is a much better ball handler and passer. While as I said, I like House, I have a feeling that Marbury will be getting most of his minutes before too long.

[Bankshot]

As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

[Bankshot]

this was always the potential problem with Marbury being our main acquisition.

If you think that Rondo is going to be getting 38-40 MPG in the playoffs, that leaves 8-10 MPG for Mar.

If you want more, then you have to play him at SG with Rondo. (which, by the way, almost eliminates House - who is probably our best bench player pre-Mar)

and at SG, depending on who the matchup is, Mar could be at a big disadvantage. people are mentioning Hermann...but what about Brandon Rush too?

so while Mar is probably the most talented player to have been moved of late here. His potential impact on a game is limited by the ways to get him on the floor and it  curtails time for Eddie - who has been the best bench player up till now...

I imagine that Doc could limit Rondo's minutes in the playoffs to get Mar more time at PG, but is it really in the best interest of the team to limit Rondo's minutes?

I think the long and the short of it is that we need another addition to the bench in the shape of a wing player....

that way Doc won't be trying to force minutes to one player and will actually have some options to get the best possible matchups...

bonzi, Kirk Snyder, Bryon Russell, (dare i mention it again) Robert Horry...

Considering Rondo's inconsistency at times, it might not be a bad thing to give Marbury some of his minutes in those games where he's not getting it done.  I expect to see Marbury close out some close games when he gets in shape and learns the system.

[winsomme]

this was always the potential problem with Marbury being our main acquisition.

If you think that Rondo is going to be getting 38-40 MPG in the playoffs, that leaves 8-10 MPG for Mar.

If you want more, then you have to play him at SG with Rondo. (which, by the way, almost eliminates House - who is probably our best bench player pre-Mar)

and at SG, depending on who the matchup is, Mar could be at a big disadvantage. people are mentioning Hermann...but what about Brandon Rush too?

so while Mar is probably the most talented player to have been moved of late here. His potential impact on a game is limited by the ways to get him on the floor and it  curtails time for Eddie - who has been the best bench player up till now...

I imagine that Doc could limit Rondo's minutes in the playoffs to get Mar more time at PG, but is it really in the best interest of the team to limit Rondo's minutes?

I think the long and the short of it is that we need another addition to the bench in the shape of a wing player....

that way Doc won't be trying to force minutes to one player and will actually have some options to get the best possible matchups...

bonzi, Kirk Snyder, Bryon Russell, (dare i mention it again) Robert Horry...

I'm a little confused by some of this. You say that because Marbury is a defensive liablity because he has trouble guarding guys like Hermann or Rush, But that House is their best player off the bench. Does that mean you think that House can defend guys like these better that Marbury, because I would have to disagree, if that's your point. Lets face it, defense is not eddie's strong point either. To be honest, if I had to pick, I'd probably go with Marbury on D. At least he has some height. While I like the 3 point shooting Eddie brings to the game, I don't really think he brings that much more. I think Marbury can offset his scoring and is a much better ball handler and passer. While as I said, I like House, I have a feeling that Marbury will be getting most of his minutes before too long.

No, I was okay with Eddie as our backup PG. I really didn't like him getting too much time at SG....a problem that is accentuated by signing another player that also can't defend that position (Marbury)

the question about Marbury, that we are now going to have to see how it plays out, is whether his offensive skills will outweigh any problems created by him having to guard two-guards...

but i've said before that if we were able to sign Joe Smith, I would have worried less about the defensive problems on the wing because our defense is so help oriented...

[winsomme]

this was always the potential problem with Marbury being our main acquisition.

If you think that Rondo is going to be getting 38-40 MPG in the playoffs, that leaves 8-10 MPG for Mar.

If you want more, then you have to play him at SG with Rondo. (which, by the way, almost eliminates House - who is probably our best bench player pre-Mar)

and at SG, depending on who the matchup is, Mar could be at a big disadvantage. people are mentioning Hermann...but what about Brandon Rush too?

so while Mar is probably the most talented player to have been moved of late here. His potential impact on a game is limited by the ways to get him on the floor and it  curtails time for Eddie - who has been the best bench player up till now...

I imagine that Doc could limit Rondo's minutes in the playoffs to get Mar more time at PG, but is it really in the best interest of the team to limit Rondo's minutes?

I think the long and the short of it is that we need another addition to the bench in the shape of a wing player....

that way Doc won't be trying to force minutes to one player and will actually have some options to get the best possible matchups...

bonzi, Kirk Snyder, Bryon Russell, (dare i mention it again) Robert Horry...

Considering Rondo's inconsistency at times, it might not be a bad thing to give Marbury some of his minutes in those games where he's not getting it done.  I expect to see Marbury close out some close games when he gets in shape and learns the system.

That is SUCH a slippery slope. If you start giving Rondo's minutes to Mar, we could be in for some serious tumult.

On its face, I have absolutely no problem with Mar at PG, but Rondo is so competitive. I just think you are begging for the thing that people were in some ways most worried about with Mar coming here -  that his presence would cause problems in the locker room.

[TrueGreen]

In 2 games with Marbury, I see a big problem. Neither House or Marbury can defend the other teams 2 guard. So if you can't defend them, then you need to out score them. I think Doc should do a mass substitution 4 times a game. Sub in:

Marbury
House
Powe
Moore

along with Pierce/Allen and run Phoenix ball while the others are resting. At the end of the 4+ minutes, put the starters back in, take out Pierce/Allen and let Stephon play the sg for a few minutes. I think this plan would best suite the benches strengths on offense and hopefully they would maintain or increase the lead while the starters get a quick break.

I agree with everything you said... I don't think Doc would ever do this though...

It's all Doc's fault again. Marbury had one good game and one bad. No practice till after those games. Marbury and Moore are clueless on the floor right now. Doc said today he's basically got a 5 player change with M & M in and TA, Scals and Garnett out. Doc said he played Pierce too much. Pierce was asked and said he was okay, but admitted afterwards it may have been too much. Can people please give the Celtics a little bit of time to adjust?

[Chief]

As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

[winsomme]

As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

yeah, he can't guard any of those guys. he couldn't even guard Brandon Rush.

But i'm not willing to give up on what could do for us. I liked what i saw in the first game in terms of what he did to the offense of the bench unit.

[action781]

It's not as much Starbury on defense as it is House. He is just a liability on the court except for his shooting. I'd guess that is why he's been on 8 different NBA teams.

Because all 8 knew he could possibly be an important part to a championship 

I don't like Eddie House playing as an off guard. I think it puts too much pressure on the team defensively, and on the backboards. I much prefer him as the point guard.

And I don't like him as a pg. Our offensive sets break down when he's running the team. So maybe he is the problem. Does his shooting out weigh all of his shortcomings?

it did last year...

Thank you!  Certainly did!   

There are things to like and not like about when he is pg and not.  I'll focus on a couple of the positives, since the 2 of you focused on the negatives.

When he is pg, I like the pick and pop he and Pierce run a lot.  We get House a lot of open looks from that while the defense knows they can't pay too much attention to House if PP has the ball.  I like some of the adjustments to that play I've seen more recently like the flare screen for Eddie after he sets the screen for PP.

When he is not pg, you mentioned a rebounding problem.  Well, if we can get him and Rondo together on the floor more often, which we've been seeing a little in the last month or so and I really like, Rondo rebounds as well as many SGs.  He obviously needs more time with Steph before they are comfortable enough to play really well together, but I'd still like to see a Rondo/House combo more often when possible.

[action781]

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

yeah, he can't guard any of those guys. he couldn't even guard Brandon Rush.

But i'm not willing to give up on what could do for us. I liked what i saw in the first game in terms of what he did to the offense of the bench unit.

Of course Eddie can't guard those guys, MOST bench players in the league cant guard those guys!!!

Turkoglu?  Really?  Come on...  Does he ever really play the 2?  And if he really is the 2nd most guardlike player on the court, you think Doc is going to put Eddie on him?   I think Doc will be smart enough to wait until Turk goes to the bench and a 2 is in the game before he inserts Eddie.

Whats the problem with Wally?  Is Wally going to be able to guard Eddie any better than vice versa?

The rest are mostly allstars, so yes, Eddie House, as well as every other bench player in the NBA, will have trouble defending these allstars and will be outplayed by them.  Good point.  (I'm sorry, that was rude.  I think I just get overly defensive of Eddie)

[winsomme]

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

yeah, he can't guard any of those guys. he couldn't even guard Brandon Rush.

But i'm not willing to give up on what could do for us. I liked what i saw in the first game in terms of what he did to the offense of the bench unit.

Of course Eddie can't guard those guys, MOST bench players in the league cant guard those guys!!!

Turkoglu?  Really?  Come on...  Does he ever really play the 2?  And if he really is the 2nd most guardlike player on the court, you think Doc is going to put Eddie on him?   I think Doc will be smart enough to wait until Turk goes to the bench and a 2 is in the game before he inserts Eddie.

Whats the problem with Wally?  Is Wally going to be able to guard Eddie any better than vice versa?

The rest are mostly allstars, so yes, Eddie House, as well as every other bench player in the NBA, will have trouble defending these allstars and will be outplayed by them.  Good point.

i guess what i'm saying is that in the two games we have had Mar, it has resulted in big time mismatches....

Mar, Eddie, Ray lineups are really small. so are Rondo, Mar, Ray lineups.....