16 Minutes of Hell

[Chief]

In 2 games with Marbury, I see a big problem. Neither House or Marbury can defend the other teams 2 guard. So if you can't defend them, then you need to out score them. I think Doc should do a mass substitution 4 times a game. Sub in:

Marbury
House
Powe
Moore

along with Pierce/Allen and run Phoenix ball while the others are resting. At the end of the 4+ minutes, put the starters back in, take out Pierce/Allen and let Stephon play the sg for a few minutes. I think this plan would best suite the benches strengths on offense and hopefully they would maintain or increase the lead while the starters get a quick break.

[MattG12]

In 2 games with Marbury, I see a big problem. Neither House or Marbury can defend the other teams 2 guard. So if you can't defend them, then you need to out score them. I think Doc should do a mass substitution 4 times a game. Sub in:

Marbury
House
Powe
Moore

along with Pierce/Allen and run Phoenix ball while the others are resting. At the end of the 4+ minutes, put the starters back in, take out Pierce/Allen and let Stephon play the sg for a few minutes. I think this plan would best suite the benches strengths on offense and hopefully they would maintain or increase the lead while the starters get a quick break.

I agree with everything you said... I don't think Doc would ever do this though...

[Chief]

In 2 games with Marbury, I see a big problem. Neither House or Marbury can defend the other teams 2 guard. So if you can't defend them, then you need to out score them. I think Doc should do a mass substitution 4 times a game. Sub in:

Marbury
House
Powe
Moore

along with Pierce/Allen and run Phoenix ball while the others are resting. At the end of the 4+ minutes, put the starters back in, take out Pierce/Allen and let Stephon play the sg for a few minutes. I think this plan would best suite the benches strengths on offense and hopefully they would maintain or increase the lead while the starters get a quick break.

I agree with everything you said... I don't think Doc would ever do this though...

It's not much different than they way Doc subs now, it would just be running the up tempo offense with the subs. If Doc is ever going to be a great coach, he needs to be flexible with the talent Danny has given him.

[Cman]

I thought you were going to say that "16 minutes of Hell" was your feeling about reading through the interminable posts comparing Smith to Moore to Robert Horry...
 

[paintitgreen]

I think he'll be able to defend a lot of 2s, particularly when he gets up to speed - no matter how much he's been working out, you can't duplicate NBA situations. But I think what you're talking about is the beginning of the second quarter. It just so happens that the Pistons made a smart substitution and Doc didn't make a countermove. Prince came in for Hamilton at 9:40 in the second quarter, switching Herrman, a 6'9" 225 pounder who usually plays the 3 or 4, to the 2. Marbury will be able to work up the quickness to stay with guys like Hamilton just can't cover someone that much bigger than him.

What's astounding is that Doc stuck with the small backcourt of Marbury and House for over three minutes after that substitution (ultimately, Ray for Marbury at 6:20), during which time Herrman hit two easy shots against the smaller Marbury who just couldn't contest him, and made it to the line on another occasion. Why did he wait 3:20 to make a change? If you want to rest Ray, put Walker or Giddens, or even Davis (switching Moore onto Herrman and putting Davis/Powe on Kwame and McDyess/Maxiell) in for House to get some height on Herrman. It's not like he was running any plays to get House open for 3s against a taller defender who couldn't keep with him if he kept running off screens.

Fortunately, Doc learned a bit, since in the 4th, with basically the same lineups (Marbury, House, Pierce, Powe and Davis v. Bynum, Herrman, Prince, Maxiell and McDyess), Boston started running plays for House and he responded with 2 3s in the first 2 minutes, turning a 7 point deficit into a 2 point lead. You also have to give credit for the fact that during that run, Marbury and the rest of the team played good enough defense to get the Celtics a nice run - with that lineup, the Pistons settled for 4 jumpers, making just 1, had a shot clock violation and one driving layup when Bynum burned past House - forcing Detroit to make the switch (which they intelligently did), bringing in Stuckey, Hamilton and Wallace for Bynum, Herrman and Maxiell. I just wish Doc had made a similar switch earlier in the game when it was necessary, or was smart enough to run House around screens to get open against bigger, slower defenders.

Bottom line, Doc had as much or more of a bad game than Steph.

[Chief]

It's not as much Starbury on defense as it is House. He is just a liability on the court except for his shooting. I'd guess that is why he's been on 8 different NBA teams.

[xmuscularghandix]

Marbury can guard a 2 guard, he was being asked to guard someone thats a HUGE mismatch, thats someone walker should have been covering.

[crownsy]

In 2 games with Marbury, I see a big problem. Neither House or Marbury can defend the other teams 2 guard. So if you can't defend them, then you need to out score them. I think Doc should do a mass substitution 4 times a game. Sub in:

Marbury
House
Powe
Moore

along with Pierce/Allen and run Phoenix ball while the others are resting. At the end of the 4+ minutes, put the starters back in, take out Pierce/Allen and let Stephon play the sg for a few minutes. I think this plan would best suite the benches strengths on offense and hopefully they would maintain or increase the lead while the starters get a quick break.

i reserve judgment until doc actually puts marbury on a two guard.

unless walter herman plays SG in his spare time and ahs a sick handle im unaware of.

[Jon]

I agree with the sentiment that Marbury's ability to guard the 2 will depend on the matchup; however, I do think that come playoff time the matchup will almost always be bad, as we play superior competition and as the starters to start to play more minutes. 

Similarly, I also agree that if we are going to go small, we need to make the other team pay for going big.  Herrmann may destroy Steph with his size, but Steph should be destroying Herrmann off the dribble on the other end of the court. 

I like the idea of running.  I think Doc needs to do something different from what he's doing now.  I think he needs to either up the tempo (as some of you said) or I think he needs to decide not to play this dwarf backcourt.  Unfortunately, that would necessitate benching House and playing Walker or Giddens (or Tony Allen when he comes back). 

[Chief]

I agree with the sentiment that Marbury's ability to guard the 2 will depend on the matchup; however, I do think that come playoff time the matchup will almost always be bad, as we play superior competition and as the starters to start to play more minutes. 

Similarly, I also agree that if we are going to go small, we need to make the other team pay for going big.  Herrmann may destroy Steph with his size, but Steph should be destroying Herrmann off the dribble on the other end of the court. 

I like the idea of running.  I think Doc needs to do something different from what he's doing now.  I think he needs to either up the tempo (as some of you said) or I think he needs to decide not to play this dwarf backcourt.  Unfortunately, that would necessitate benching House and playing Walker or Giddens (or Tony Allen when he comes back). 

It is also the strength of Moore. The guy had the best season if his NBA career running the floor for Jason Kidd. Putting him into a half court offense limits his abilities.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think Doc should stay away from mass substitutions, at least in the playoffs.  It may be necessary to give guys rest in the regular season.

[ToppersBsktball10]

thats cuz marbury hasnt been in shape and he had to guard rip hamilton

[KungPoweChicken]

Asking Marbury to defend two guards is like asking Ray Allen to guard Shaq.

[cordobes]

I agree with the sentiment that Marbury's ability to guard the 2 will depend on the matchup; however, I do think that come playoff time the matchup will almost always be bad, as we play superior competition and as the starters to start to play more minutes. 

Similarly, I also agree that if we are going to go small, we need to make the other team pay for going big.  Herrmann may destroy Steph with his size, but Steph should be destroying Herrmann off the dribble on the other end of the court. 

I like the idea of running.  I think Doc needs to do something different from what he's doing now.  I think he needs to either up the tempo (as some of you said) or I think he needs to decide not to play this dwarf backcourt.  Unfortunately, that would necessitate benching House and playing Walker or Giddens (or Tony Allen when he comes back). 

The problem is that we're just going undersized, and the other teams may have the versatility to field a team with length to take advantage of that on the offensive side but also with the quickness to defend our guards.

See yesterday's game as an example, Prince is absolutely capable of guarding Eddie House, screening or no screening, and Herrmann can contain Pierce.

Using Marbury as the backup 2, hence going with Ray as the backup 3, is a very dangerous solution, I think. Our backcourt is extremely undersized and teams will find ways of making us pay for it. On the top of that, the East is filled with big but quick swingmen.

[Who]

I don't like Eddie House playing as an off guard. I think it puts too much pressure on the team defensively, and on the backboards. I much prefer him as the point guard.