Author Topic: 16 Minutes of Hell  (Read 9432 times)

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Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2009, 10:24:59 AM »

Offline Chief

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If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

yeah, he can't guard any of those guys. he couldn't even guard Brandon Rush.

But i'm not willing to give up on what could do for us. I liked what i saw in the first game in terms of what he did to the offense of the bench unit.

Of course Eddie can't guard those guys, MOST bench players in the league cant guard those guys!!!

Turkoglu?  Really?  Come on...  Does he ever really play the 2?  And if he really is the 2nd most guardlike player on the court, you think Doc is going to put Eddie on him?   I think Doc will be smart enough to wait until Turk goes to the bench and a 2 is in the game before he inserts Eddie.

Whats the problem with Wally?  Is Wally going to be able to guard Eddie any better than vice versa?

The rest are mostly allstars, so yes, Eddie House, as well as every other bench player in the NBA, will have trouble defending these allstars and will be outplayed by them.  Good point.

Orlando quite often plays pg/Pietrus/Turkoglu/Lewis/Howard. Since Pietrus is a long and athletic 6-6, I don't think that is any better of a matchup. :(
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2009, 02:52:42 PM »

Offline Edgar

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As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

Detroit- stuckey
Philly- green
Cleveland- gibson
Atlanta- johnson s their best and till guardable
Miami- deep there
Orlando-Pietrus
NJ-Hayes

second unit remember...
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2009, 03:26:51 PM »

Offline Chief

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As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

Detroit- stuckey
Philly- green
Cleveland- gibson
Atlanta- johnson s their best and till guardable
Miami- deep there
Orlando-Pietrus
NJ-Hayes

second unit remember...

That is if both coaches sub at the exact same time. Some coaches play there young star players almost every minute in the playoffs. But if we are talking second units only, I still don't like many of those matchups. That's why we need to do "16 minutes of hell". At least we can outscore them or maintain the lead while the starters are getting a break.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2009, 05:20:48 PM »

Online Who

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I don't like Eddie House playing as an off guard. I think it puts too much pressure on the team defensively, and on the backboards. I much prefer him as the point guard.

And I don't like him as a pg. Our offensive sets break down when he's running the team. So maybe he is the problem. Does his shooting out weigh all of his shortcomings?
I think his defensive/rebounding limitations as an off guard far outweigh his offensive negatives as a point guard.

I don't think Eddie gets enough credit for his all-round play as a point guard, and I do not think his lack of playmaking/floor general skills are costly to the Celtics. I don't think those limitations come anywhere close to outweighing his positive contributions at the point. I'm quite happy with Eddie as the C's backup point guard, I think he does a very good job.

I also think his shooting is extremely valuable to the Celtics because he's the only player outside of the Big Three who is a very good shooter. TA is not and neither or the two backup big men, nor Rondo, nor Perk. Marbury is a solid shooter but not a very good one, it'll be interesting to see how important that downgrade is over the next few weeks ... maybe Marbury adds enough elsewhere to make up for it, but maybe not. I think we'll have to wait and see.

If Marbury is the best option for the team at the point guard, then yes, I don't want to see Eddie in the backcourt with him. I want a legitimate wing if it's at all possible. The rookies need an opportunity, and TA needs an opportunity once he returns to see where his conditioning/form is. Only if those players are utterly incapable of taking the role do I want Eddie as the team's off guard in the playoffs.

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 07:17:59 PM »

Offline Bankshot

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If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

yeah, he can't guard any of those guys. he couldn't even guard Brandon Rush.

But i'm not willing to give up on what could do for us. I liked what i saw in the first game in terms of what he did to the offense of the bench unit.

Of course Eddie can't guard those guys, MOST bench players in the league cant guard those guys!!!

Turkoglu?  Really?  Come on...  Does he ever really play the 2?  And if he really is the 2nd most guardlike player on the court, you think Doc is going to put Eddie on him?   I think Doc will be smart enough to wait until Turk goes to the bench and a 2 is in the game before he inserts Eddie.

Whats the problem with Wally?  Is Wally going to be able to guard Eddie any better than vice versa?

The rest are mostly allstars, so yes, Eddie House, as well as every other bench player in the NBA, will have trouble defending these allstars and will be outplayed by them.  Good point.

Orlando quite often plays pg/Pietrus/Turkoglu/Lewis/Howard. Since Pietrus is a long and athletic 6-6, I don't think that is any better of a matchup. :(

The above is not my quote.  Someone messed up.
"If somebody would have told you when he was playing with the Knicks that Nate Robinson was going to change a big time game and he was going to do it mostly because of his defense, somebody would have got slapped."  Mark Jackson

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 07:55:46 PM »

Offline Jon

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As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

Detroit- stuckey
Philly- green
Cleveland- gibson
Atlanta- johnson s their best and till guardable
Miami- deep there
Orlando-Pietrus
NJ-Hayes

second unit remember...

That is if both coaches sub at the exact same time. Some coaches play there young star players almost every minute in the playoffs. But if we are talking second units only, I still don't like many of those matchups. That's why we need to do "16 minutes of hell". At least we can outscore them or maintain the lead while the starters are getting a break.

Exactly.  And given that it's the playoffs, we're not likely going to see wholesale substitutions and the "second unit" coming in.  The scarier proposition is that PP or Ray gets into foul trouble and that House or Marbury has to guard one of the above mentioned starters for a lengthy amount of time.  And that will happen at some point during the playoffs, if not multiple times, given the very talented swingmen we'll be facing. 

I too like what Eddie gives offensively; however, I think the best case scenario is that Marbury plays well, Tony Allen recovers, and Eddie is relegated to spot minutes at the end of quarters to launch threes. 

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2009, 08:07:35 PM »

Offline Chief

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As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

Detroit- stuckey
Philly- green
Cleveland- gibson
Atlanta- johnson s their best and till guardable
Miami- deep there
Orlando-Pietrus
NJ-Hayes

second unit remember...

That is if both coaches sub at the exact same time. Some coaches play there young star players almost every minute in the playoffs. But if we are talking second units only, I still don't like many of those matchups. That's why we need to do "16 minutes of hell". At least we can outscore them or maintain the lead while the starters are getting a break.

Just to recap the Nets game, we saw Starbury get matched against Vince and Jarvis. Neither of those matchups did I enjoy watching. I think it's just going to get scarier and scarier.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2009, 08:23:08 PM »

Offline Jon

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As I recall, House was benched in favor of Cassell for most of the playoffs.

That's true, but it turned out to be the wrong move and later corrected.  Doesn't mean it would be the wrong move to replace him with Marbury though.  Marbury is a much better player than Cassel was.  I'm not saying that Marbury should replace House, mind you.

If Doc does not change the tempo with the second unit and House plays sg, these could be guys he would be asked to guard.

Detroit- Rip Hamilton
Philly- Iguodala
Cleveland- Wally
Atlanta- Joe Johnson
Miami- Wade
Orlando-Turkoglu/Pietrus
NJ-Vince Carter/Hayes


If things don't change, I'd much rather have Marbury at the pg and a healthy Tony Allen at sg guard for defense. Let House be our change of pace shooting specialist.

Detroit- stuckey
Philly- green
Cleveland- gibson
Atlanta- johnson s their best and till guardable
Miami- deep there
Orlando-Pietrus
NJ-Hayes

second unit remember...

That is if both coaches sub at the exact same time. Some coaches play there young star players almost every minute in the playoffs. But if we are talking second units only, I still don't like many of those matchups. That's why we need to do "16 minutes of hell". At least we can outscore them or maintain the lead while the starters are getting a break.

Just to recap the Nets game, we saw Starbury get matched against Vince and Jarvis. Neither of those matchups did I enjoy watching. I think it's just going to get scarier and scarier.

I agree, which is why I think it's going to come down to Marbury or House, not both.  Like I said above, I like Eddie as a player, but if Marbury plays like he can, House should be relegated to spot minutes as a three point bomber. 

Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2009, 11:52:04 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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Doc understands the pairs limitations on defense but it's a great pairing on offensive. Marbury is a CLASSIC drive and dish guy. No player benefits this type of PG more then an outside shooter like House.

Yes you could pair up Marbury with Giddens or Walker and be much improved defensively but you would suck on offense. Despite the hype defense DOES NOT win championships. Getting good offfensive players like Pierce and Ray Allen to play good defense does.

Fundamentally basketball is an offensive game. Unlike other sports you don't get points for stopping your opponent or waiting for them to fail. You have to get the ball in the basket. Thus Doc employs Marbury and House. Its an excellent combination on offense.


Re: 16 Minutes of Hell
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2009, 12:46:22 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I also think his shooting is extremely valuable to the Celtics because he's the only player outside of the Big Three who is a very good shooter. TA is not and neither or the two backup big men, nor Rondo, nor Perk. Marbury is a solid shooter but not a very good one, it'll be interesting to see how important that downgrade is over the next few weeks ... maybe Marbury adds enough elsewhere to make up for it, but maybe not. I think we'll have to wait and see.

Very true. I'm also curious to see what will happen if House's minutes, and therefore the team outside shooting prowess, are limited.

Quote
If Marbury is the best option for the team at the point guard, then yes, I don't want to see Eddie in the backcourt with him. I want a legitimate wing if it's at all possible. The rookies need an opportunity, and TA needs an opportunity once he returns to see where his conditioning/form is. Only if those players are utterly incapable of taking the role do I want Eddie as the team's off guard in the playoffs.

Also agreed - I think that the situations where it'll be possible to pair 2 of the point guards (Rondo/Marbury/House) together will be far and between: I think teams in the playoffs will try to avoid that and punish us whenever we try it. Gets even worse if one assumes Ray will be seeing minutes as the other wing. A backcourt with Ray plus 2 of Rondo/Marbury/House is too handicapped defensive and rebounding wise.

However, I'm not confident the rookies will develop enough till the playoffs to be reliable options there - this assuming they have enough talent to be developed. I'd rather not getting till this point of the season banking on Tony Allen coming out of a prolonged injury ready to give positive contributions during a playoff run, but that's where we are.