Give Walker and/or Giddens some minutes

[CoachBo]

Gotta agree with Roy: There's no imminent help for Pierce sans Walker and Giddens, so you've got to be a little smarter managing Paul's minutes.

We're gonna regret the disdain we've shown since June for a quality wing off the bench, and perhaps a quality 5 as well.

[winsomme]

Gotta agree with Roy: There's no imminent help for Pierce sans Walker and Giddens, so you've got to be a little smarter managing Paul's minutes.

We're gonna regret the disdain we've shown since June for a quality wing off the bench, and perhaps a quality 5 as well.

I'd say this is a pretty big week in that regard.....the bench could look very different a week from now.

plus, March isn't quite the lineup that Feb has been.

If they are being straight about KG and it's just a muscle strain and we add a couple of pieces here, I think minutes for Paul will come down to the 36 range in short order...

[cordobes]

Was this game really in doubt when we were up by 20 points or so with six minutes left?

With 5 minutes to go we were up by 15. Would that allow them to come back? Yeps and it wouldn't be that difficult or weird; at the pace they play that's a couple of turnovers and misses from the Cs. The Suns outscored us by 12 points in about 6 minutes. To allow them to cut the lead in those final minutes by playing our scrubs against their starters would be very dangerous. Not worth the risk, IMO.

In your opinion, could Pierce and the other starters been taken out before there were 2:00 left in the game?

I understand why Pierce needs to play a lot of minutes.  However, it's up to the coaching staff to get him rest when they can.  Increased minutes means that Pierce will be less fresh for the playoffs, and it increases his chances of injury.

Yeah, they could have been taken out when there were about 3 minutes left. But that makes 60 seconds of over-playing. When has Doc played them without necessity as well? I don't remember that happening a lot.

[zerophase]

Doc's one hamartia as a coach has been his inability to trust rookies... we see it all the time. His reluctance to play giddens and walker this year is no surprise. Remember, he played Telfair over Rondo...

[Jon]

I think it's not only that we need to get PP and Ray more rest, we also need to find someone who can guard Joe Johnson/LeBron James/Kobe Bryant/Dwayne Wade (and others) if Tony Allen isn't healthy.  Eddie House and Gabe Pruitt don't fit the bill.  Walker and Giddens physically do.  I'd love to see what they can do. 

[Greenbean]

I would love to see those guys get some burn and I think it will happen this week. Doc puts a lot of stock in how guys perform in practice, and if they are not playing in games it just means other guys are beating them out. I am not sure I agree with this but it is how he coaches. Some guys respond much better to game action even though I am sure the Celtics practices are game intense.

This is definitely the best opportunity they will have for minutes though. They need the bodies and Doc will see that. If not him then someone on the team will realize it...Paul already has. This is a great time to see what they can contribute, if anything, this year. They will HAVE to fill out the roster after next week so hopefully those guys will perform this week when called on because it may be their only real chance.

[Roy Hobbs]

Was this game really in doubt when we were up by 20 points or so with six minutes left?

With 5 minutes to go we were up by 15. Would that allow them to come back? Yeps and it wouldn't be that difficult or weird; at the pace they play that's a couple of turnovers and misses from the Cs. The Suns outscored us by 12 points in about 6 minutes. To allow them to cut the lead in those final minutes by playing our scrubs against their starters would be very dangerous. Not worth the risk, IMO.

With 5:56 left, it was a 22 point game (115-93).  If you substitute Bill Walker for Pierce at that point, I highly doubt that the Suns would have made up that deficit in 6 minutes.  If they get within 10 or so, but Pierce back in, but it's very unlikely that that would have been necessary.

Nobody is saying that the team should have gone to an all "scrub" lineup.  However, getting Paul Pierce a little rest wouldn't have been likely to materially alter the end result.

[billysan]

Another way for Doc to approach this productively is to play Walker when certain matchups are availabale in the game. Today he could have played every minute against Barnes or Grant Hill. We see this all the time with other players, Lebron or Kobe sits and Paul or Ray sit, etc, etc. Does anyone seriously think Walker cant cover Grant Hill fairly well for a few minutes? It's not like Hill is the focal point of the offense.

I would love to see those guys get some burn and I think it will happen this week. Doc puts a lot of stock in how guys perform in practice, and if they are not playing in games it just means other guys are beating them out.

Who exactly is beating them out? Paul and Ray? I dont get it.

[winsomme]

Was this game really in doubt when we were up by 20 points or so with six minutes left?

With 5 minutes to go we were up by 15. Would that allow them to come back? Yeps and it wouldn't be that difficult or weird; at the pace they play that's a couple of turnovers and misses from the Cs. The Suns outscored us by 12 points in about 6 minutes. To allow them to cut the lead in those final minutes by playing our scrubs against their starters would be very dangerous. Not worth the risk, IMO.

With 5:56 left, it was a 22 point game (115-93).  If you substitute Bill Walker for Pierce at that point, I highly doubt that the Suns would have made up that deficit in 6 minutes.  If they get within 10 or so, but Pierce back in, but it's very unlikely that that would have been necessary.

Nobody is saying that the team should have gone to an all "scrub" lineup.  However, getting Paul Pierce a little rest wouldn't have been likely to materially alter the end result.

the Suns were also shooting over 50% at that point and were running their offense pretty well. plus, they do score in bunches...

so, while highly unlikely that they came back, it was still something to think about. like Cor said, it was 15 with 5 mins left....

to me, it's worse to shut Paul down then have to get him back in there....

[billysan]

it's worse to shut Paul down then have to get him back in there....

I dont see the difference in resting him (Paul) at the 1st-2nd quarter break for 3-5 minutes and bringing him back after a short rest in the middle of the 4th quarter. We could lose part of our lead in either scenario. If Doc used this logic on all players, he would never want to take a starter out once we had a lead.

Our second unit consistently gives up leads and the starters have to build them back after they rest. Sometimes the rest is cut short, but that's what second units do isnt it? The coach sets a threshhold and when the score reaches it or some other factor is met then he brings the starter(s) back into the game.

If Doc is worried about the end of the game, rest Paul earlier like when he is cold shooting in the first half.

[Greenbean]

I would love to see those guys get some burn and I think it will happen this week. Doc puts a lot of stock in how guys perform in practice, and if they are not playing in games it just means other guys are beating them out.

Who exactly is beating them out? Paul and Ray? I dont get it.
[/quote]

That is what I mean. With injuries and trades, this coming week will be their best opportunity to prove they can contribute because there are less bodies to beat out.

Specifically though, Gabe Pruitt has been getting the minutes with Eddie in the 2nd unit. The problem is when put one of the rooks in the game, there is such a dropoff at the position offensively (going from pierce or ray to walker/giddens) so they need to be that much more of a plus defensively. That is the only reason Tony Allen even sniffs the court. Gabe has shown this year that he can play some D (and spread the floor with shooting) so he's getting minutes. One of those two need to do the same thing and they will see the court.

As for Roy's assertion about putting them in earlier today, I think and hope that Doc was just be extra cautious today and in the near future will pull the trigger earlier.

[Chief]

Doc is too focused on best record in the East. But maybe it is for a reason. The Celtics were not exactly road warriors in last year's playoffs.

[billysan]

Doc is too focused on best record in the East. But maybe it is for a reason. The Celtics were not exactly road warriors in last year's playoffs.

This is a legit point. Scary if true.

[hwangjini_1]

yes, doc's non-use of walker and giddons and anyone but pierce and allen was, to me, typical doc.

yes, use of the rookies 2-3 minutes earlier would have probably resulted in a victory of less than 15 points.

but i would take that if pierce and allen got an extra 2-3 minutes off.

from what i watched tonight on tv, walker looked good. very active, nice catch and put back of a shot. lot of atheticism....in 2 minutes. i think doc should give him more minutes in games such as tonight against phoenix.

by the way, while giddons only had a few seconds of play tonight, i was impressed by how high he jumped on one play. both he and walker are athletic.

now, to get them into nba condition, doc needs to play them a bit more and give pierce and allen rest when possible...and tonight was such a night.

doc should not have had pierce in this game with that lead and only 4 minutes left.

[kozlodoev]

“I’d like to see us do something,” said Pierce. “I think it would help us. You don’t want to burn out me and Ray (Allen) coming down the stretch to where we’re having to play heavy minutes, especially going into the playoffs.”

Paul gets it.  Why doesn't Doc?

This quote is from Feb 19, prior to the trade deadline. "Do something" quite probably refers to getting a decent backup, not necessarily to playing Walker and Giddens indiscriminately.