Give Walker and/or Giddens some minutes

[Fafnir]

I agree that I don't like how many minutes Paul is playing. I'm not convinced playing Walker/Giddons is a good idea. I can see why given the fast paced Suns game erred on the side of caution today.

Hopefully we'll bring in veteran swing man to answer this glaring need. If not I think Paul can handle it. I am glad that Paul is showing confidence to the media in his teammates. Even if Doc doesn't. Ubuntu.

[cordobes]

Was this game really in doubt when we were up by 20 points or so with six minutes left?

With 5 minutes to go we were up by 15. Would that allow them to come back? Yeps and it wouldn't be that difficult or weird; at the pace they play that's a couple of turnovers and misses from the Cs. The Suns outscored us by 12 points in about 6 minutes. To allow them to cut the lead in those final minutes by playing our scrubs against their starters would be very dangerous. Not worth the risk, IMO.

With 5:56 left, it was a 22 point game (115-93).  If you substitute Bill Walker for Pierce at that point, I highly doubt that the Suns would have made up that deficit in 6 minutes.  If they get within 10 or so, but Pierce back in, but it's very unlikely that that would have been necessary.

Nobody is saying that the team should have gone to an all "scrub" lineup.  However, getting Paul Pierce a little rest wouldn't have been likely to materially alter the end result.

Yeah, with 5:56 left, it was a 22 point game (115-93), but with 5:01 to go it was a 15 points game.

That's basically my point. They erased 7 points in less than a minute and you think it would be safe to rest the best players with 5 minutes to go? And to put back Pierce when they had their trust regained and the fans going crazy on the stands? Not a very good idea, IMO... if I was forced to bet, I'd say that in that hypothetical situation they'd cream us the rest of the game, Pierce back on the floor or not.


And again, when has this happened before? I really don't see such a big case if we're talking about a minute or two of additional rest. Not going to chance things a bit...

[Fafnir]

Was this game really in doubt when we were up by 20 points or so with six minutes left?

With 5 minutes to go we were up by 15. Would that allow them to come back? Yeps and it wouldn't be that difficult or weird; at the pace they play that's a couple of turnovers and misses from the Cs. The Suns outscored us by 12 points in about 6 minutes. To allow them to cut the lead in those final minutes by playing our scrubs against their starters would be very dangerous. Not worth the risk, IMO.

With 5:56 left, it was a 22 point game (115-93).  If you substitute Bill Walker for Pierce at that point, I highly doubt that the Suns would have made up that deficit in 6 minutes.  If they get within 10 or so, but Pierce back in, but it's very unlikely that that would have been necessary.

Nobody is saying that the team should have gone to an all "scrub" lineup.  However, getting Paul Pierce a little rest wouldn't have been likely to materially alter the end result.

And again, when has this happened before? I really don't see such a big case if we're talking about a minute or two of additional rest. Not going to chance things a bit...

If we'd built a big lead in the first half of 20 points I would have liked Walker to come in and buy an extra minute or two of rest for Paul. Just to keep him fresh for the second half. That late the game after Paul has already gone for a long time, I can see asking him to finish it until garbage time.

I am very glad our schedule eases up a ton for the stretch to the playoffs. That is going to help us a lot.

[Roy Hobbs]

Also, it's not like the other contenders aren't using rookies.  Look at the other top teams in the league:

Cleveland -- J.J. Hickson, 46 games played; Trey Johnson, 2 games played

San Antonio -- George Hill, 52 games played; Anthony Tolliver, 19 games played; Malik Hairston, 8 games played

Orlando -- Courtney Lee, 49 games played

Only the Lakers compare with the Celtics in terms of the top contenders in terms of limitation upon rookie minutes; Sun Yue has appeared in more games (10) than Bill Walker (9), but has played fewer total minutes.

I'm not sure that I believe that Hill, Tolliver, Lee, and Hickson are significantly farther along than Bill Walker.  I doubt it will kill our chances to give him 5 minutes per game or so.

[winsomme]

it's worse to shut Paul down then have to get him back in there....

I dont see the difference in resting him (Paul) at the 1st-2nd quarter break for 3-5 minutes and bringing him back after a short rest in the middle of the 4th quarter. We could lose part of our lead in either scenario. If Doc used this logic on all players, he would never want to take a starter out once we had a lead.

Our second unit consistently gives up leads and the starters have to build them back after they rest. Sometimes the rest is cut short, but that's what second units do isnt it? The coach sets a threshhold and when the score reaches it or some other factor is met then he brings the starter(s) back into the game.

If Doc is worried about the end of the game, rest Paul earlier like when he is cold shooting in the first half.

but this game was a little special in that was coming after a loss to Utah and the news that KG was going to be out for 10+ games...

so like i mentioned earlier, i think the decision to not bring in a Walker in the first rest cycle was because the game was nip and tuck at the time, and it seemed, to me anyway, that Doc didn't want to get behind at that point giving PHO a charge that could have had us playing catchup the rest of the way...

in retrospect, i think it was the right call. Paul got too many minutes, but it kept PHO from ever really get on top in the game.

should he coach every game like this? no. but i do understand why he might have done it in this case.

[winsomme]

Also, it's not like the other contenders aren't using rookies.  Look at the other top teams in the league:

Cleveland -- J.J. Hickson, 46 games played; Trey Johnson, 2 games played

San Antonio -- George Hill, 52 games played; Anthony Tolliver, 19 games played; Malik Hairston, 8 games played

Orlando -- Courtney Lee, 49 games played

Only the Lakers compare with the Celtics in terms of the top contenders in terms of limitation upon rookie minutes; Sun Yue has appeared in more games (10) than Bill Walker (9), but has played fewer total minutes.

I'm not sure that I believe that Hill, Tolliver, Lee, and Hickson are significantly farther along than Bill Walker.  I doubt it will kill our chances to give him 5 minutes per game or so.

and BBD played in 69 games last year...

plus, the Walker role - agree with it or not - was TAs job until the surgery...

[cool breeze]

Doc is coaching to win, and giddens/walker arent ready to play, its clear thats what the coaching staff thinks

"Billy Walker and JR Giddens can play a role. If given an opportunity. Especially short minute-roles coming off the bench"

-Danny Ainge, 2/18/09 on WEEI's 'Big Show'
http://audio.weei.com/m/21892608/danny_ainge_celtics_president.htm

So Danny thinks those guys are ready for minutes in that role, and Doc doesn't. (Aside from the scrap time he threw at them today.) Seems like a fairly pointed comment in Doc's direction if you ask me. Doc obviously didn't think today was the day for 'short minutes off the bench', and if today wasn't a great opportunity for that, when will be?

What I'd like not to see is Paul and Ray worn down come playoff time, and with Walker & Giddens lacking any tangible in-game experience.

[wdleehi]

It is time to throw one of them out there if only for 5 minutes to give a little rest to Pierce or Allen.

[cordobes]

Also, it's not like the other contenders aren't using rookies.  Look at the other top teams in the league:

Cleveland -- J.J. Hickson, 46 games played; Trey Johnson, 2 games played

San Antonio -- George Hill, 52 games played; Anthony Tolliver, 19 games played; Malik Hairston, 8 games played

Orlando -- Courtney Lee, 49 games played

Only the Lakers compare with the Celtics in terms of the top contenders in terms of limitation upon rookie minutes; Sun Yue has appeared in more games (10) than Bill Walker (9), but has played fewer total minutes.

I'm not sure that I believe that Hill, Tolliver, Lee, and Hickson are significantly farther along than Bill Walker.  I doubt it will kill our chances to give him 5 minutes per game or so.

Tolliver isn't even in the league anymore, he played a few games for a club ridden with injuries and that was all. Hill, Hickson and Lee were higher picks than Walker, 1st rounders, with Hickson being a borderline lottery pick.

How many rookies picked post-40th pick have got more minutes than Walker? Goran Tragic? Anyone else?

What makes you believe that Walker will be able to contribute in the play-offs? Because you liked him before the drafted and believed he'd be able to contribute right away? Well, perhaps he wasn't really as ready as you and many believed.

[cordobes]

but this game was a little special in that was coming after a loss to Utah and the news that KG was going to be out for 10+ games...

so like i mentioned earlier, i think the decision to not bring in a Walker in the first rest cycle was because the game was nip and tuck at the time, and it seemed, to me anyway, that Doc didn't want to get behind at that point giving PHO a charge that could have had us playing catchup the rest of the way...

in retrospect, i think it was the right call. Paul got too many minutes, but it kept PHO from ever really get on top in the game.

Of course. Plus the next game in Denver, a 2nd of a back-to-back in the altitude. Winning today was very, very important.

Doc generally plays the scrubs in the blowouts and has been giving a couple of minutes here and there to Walker. This is a non-issue. Just another version of the "Free Gabe" and "Play POB" stuff. This team needs legit bench players, not kids that nobody really knows if they're good enough to be in the league that Pierce played more 3 minutes than he should today. Too little to merit worries.

[Fan from VT]

speaking of swingman reserves, I'm really curious as to why Kirk Snyder had to play in China this year and not the NBA. he played last year, here were his stats:

36 games, 21.1 minutes, 7.3p, 1.8a, 3.5r on .508 shooting. Decent defense, as well. Not great production, but certainly NBA reserve level. He's still 26 too. I've been interested for a while, he may be worth a chance.

[wdleehi]

speaking of swingman reserves, I'm really curious as to why Kirk Snyder had to play in China this year and not the NBA. he played last year, here were his stats:

36 games, 21.1 minutes, 7.3p, 1.8a, 3.5r on .508 shooting. Decent defense, as well. Not great production, but certainly NBA reserve level. He's still 26 too. I've been interested for a while, he may be worth a chance.

I wouldn't mind him at this point.  What was his outside shooting %?

[Roy Hobbs]

What makes you believe that Walker will be able to contribute in the play-offs? Because you liked him before the drafted and believed he'd be able to contribute right away? Well, perhaps he wasn't really as ready as you and many believed.

Walker has looked pretty good in very limited minutes.  That doesn't mean much, but when you take that performance in conjunction with the fact that 1) he was a solid performer in college, 2) he was excellent in the D-League 3) he has tremendous, NBA-level athleticism and aggressiveness, and 4) he is our only option at SF other than Scal, I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that he should at least be tried out for spot minutes on a nightly basis.

None of the other rookies playing for contenders looked tremendous right away, either.  However, most of them are filling a role adequately now, though.  There's no doubt in my mind that Walker could fill a role for five minutes a night, and Danny Ainge has recently expressed the exact same thought.

You yourself have expressed the need for a backup wing.  It appears very likely that the team will commit its two open roster spots to a big man and to a point guard.  That means we're still going to have a hole on the roster, that won't be filled externally.  The options, then, are to ignore it, or to try to fill it from within.  While the latter may not be the ideal option, it's the only one we really have.  Either Walker or Giddens is going to need to step up, and to do that, they need to play.

[illantari]

Exhibit A:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqbkp-vqkk&feature=related

The boy is not afraid of Lebron James.  Give him some minutes.

[winsomme]

What makes you believe that Walker will be able to contribute in the play-offs? Because you liked him before the drafted and believed he'd be able to contribute right away? Well, perhaps he wasn't really as ready as you and many believed.

Walker has looked pretty good in very limited minutes.  That doesn't mean much, but when you take that performance in conjunction with the fact that 1) he was a solid performer in college, 2) he was excellent in the D-League 3) he has tremendous, NBA-level athleticism and aggressiveness, and 4) he is our only option at SF other than Scal, I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that he should at least be tried out for spot minutes on a nightly basis.

None of the other rookies playing for contenders looked tremendous right away, either.  However, most of them are filling a role adequately now, though.  There's no doubt in my mind that Walker could fill a role for five minutes a night, and Danny Ainge has recently expressed the exact same thought.

You yourself have expressed the need for a backup wing.  It appears very likely that the team will commit its two open roster spots to a big man and to a point guard.  That means we're still going to have a hole on the roster, that won't be filled externally.  The options, then, are to ignore it, or to try to fill it from within.  While the latter may not be the ideal option, it's the only one we really have.  Either Walker or Giddens is going to need to step up, and to do that, they need to play.

the other option is to play Scals some at SF.....personally, i would rather not have Scals getting time there, but that is the other option....