I Support Perk

[Redz]

This is all the support Perk needs. 

The guy hasn't had a T in weeks.  He had all that beastly energy PERK-alating.  Tops gotta blow a little every now and then or he'll have a nervous breakdown.

No worries about Perk.  Detroit's a rival.  Maxiel's their enforcer dude.  Good stuff.  The team picked it up after that.

Perk rules!

[billysan]

Perk's toughness in the middle is an essential part of our team identity.

I think he is very much in control of the paint on most nites and he reminds the opposing team when needed. He clearly was not trying to seriously hury Maxiell. I think he got his point across and as previously stated, also let the Pistons know that they didnt get away with roughing up Rondo.

The refs were trying to keep the game under control, I dont have a problem with the Techs.

[fairweatherfan]

Just out of curiosity, for those who support Perk's actions, do you support them in the hypothetical NBA where excessive contact is called the way you think it should be called, or do you support them in this NBA, knowing full well that they WILL be called a Flagrant 2, every time, and Perk WILL be suspended, every time?  Because like it or not, a throwdown by the neck like that will earn an ejection and a suspension 100% of the time in today's league.  Heck, he might well get 2 or 3 games for that one.

And what did it accomplish?  We "sent a message" against a team who isn't really a rival anymore and we probably won't see in the playoffs?  Perk's contact will be scrutinized more and more heavily now, and he won't get the benefit of the doubt on actual borderline flagrants for the near future?  I don't see how you could view this as a net positive for our team, especially since we aren't exactly struggling.  This hurts our team and makes Perk look like a thug (I don't believe he is one, but plenty of others will). 

[winsomme]

just posted in the other thread, but basically agree that he wasn't trying to hurt just give a hard foul to a guy that thought he had it all over our bigs under there.

he sent the message. nobody got hurt and he got his medicine....for me, that was old school banging and i didn't have problem with it....

[Birdbrain]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

[CoachBo]

He definitely deserved to be run. Definitely a flagrant 2.

But I don't mind the message the foul sends.

[winsomme]

He definitely deserved to be run. Definitely a flagrant 2.

But I don't mind the message the foul sends.

yeah. i mean, it did work.

It rattled Max and then Baby came in there and grabbed two HUGE rebounds. one that he dished out to Eddie for the game clinching three....

[fairweatherfan]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

[xmuscularghandix]

What Perk did is fine in my book, who knows maybe it'll make these games more entertaining becuase even though last night was close (and ugly) i dont think the AI Pistons cane even come close to us in the playoffs.

[winsomme]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

or it could help....we don't know for sure.

if he gets tossed from a key playoff game and we lose or he gets a T at a really bad time and we lose, etc...then maybe you can make the case that he hurt the team.

but maybe it goes the way it went last night and the other team gets rattled and we win...

in general, i think you need to let other teams know you're there. that's championship ball.

sure, it's possible to step over the line and hurt your team, but that's not what happened IMO.

plus, as someone pointed out, Perk has cut way back on his Ts. and if other teams give a second look to Perk as they drive in the lane, then all the better.

they certainly know he's there because he will let you know one way or another.

[fairweatherfan]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

or it could help....we don't know for sure.

if he gets tossed from a key playoff game and we lose or he gets a T at a really bad time and we lose, etc...then maybe you can make the case that he hurt the team.

but maybe it goes the way it went last night and the other team gets rattled and we win...

in general, i think you need to let other teams know you're there. that's championship ball.

sure, it's possible to step over the line and hurt your team, but that's not what happened IMO.

plus, as someone pointed out, Perk has cut way back on his Ts. and if other teams give a second look to Perk as they drive in the lane, then all the better.

they certainly know he's there because he will let you know one way or another.

Yeah, but that assumes we would've lost if he hadn't gotten the flagrant, and that we'll win the next game if he's suspended.  I think we would've won last night no matter what happens on that play.  And committing a flagrant foul in a 5 point game with 6 minutes left is ALWAYS stupid.

Basically, I'm fine with Perk clobbering people to prevent layups.  I'm fine with him using his bulk to physically intimidate opponents.  I'm fine with him knocking people on their back, especially a stationary guy without a full head of steam.  Hitting someone on the back of the neck and THEN following through to throw him to the ground facefirst, that's out of line and he deserves the penalties he'll get.  And no matter what he says to try and duck a suspension, he knew exactly what he was doing. I'll give you that it couldn't've happened to a more deserving guy though.

People who keep pining for the higher contact days of the 70s and 80s keep forgetting that that was before the weightlifting and HGH era we're in now.  Allow that kind of stuff today and a lot of good players will be missing a lot of games from injury.  Hell, TJ Ford would probably be dead.

[winsomme]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

or it could help....we don't know for sure.

if he gets tossed from a key playoff game and we lose or he gets a T at a really bad time and we lose, etc...then maybe you can make the case that he hurt the team.

but maybe it goes the way it went last night and the other team gets rattled and we win...

in general, i think you need to let other teams know you're there. that's championship ball.

sure, it's possible to step over the line and hurt your team, but that's not what happened IMO.

plus, as someone pointed out, Perk has cut way back on his Ts. and if other teams give a second look to Perk as they drive in the lane, then all the better.

they certainly know he's there because he will let you know one way or another.

Yeah, but that assumes we would've lost if he hadn't gotten the flagrant, and that we'll win the next game if he's suspended.  I think we would've won last night no matter what happens on that play.  And committing a flagrant foul in a 5 point game with 6 minutes left is ALWAYS stupid.

Basically, I'm fine with Perk clobbering people to prevent layups.  I'm fine with him using his bulk to physically intimidate opponents.  I'm fine with him knocking people on their back, especially a stationary guy without a full head of steam.  Hitting someone on the back of the neck and THEN following through to throw him to the ground facefirst, that's out of line and he deserves the penalties he'll get.  And no matter what he says to try and duck a suspension, he knew exactly what he was doing. I'll give you that it couldn't've happened to a more deserving guy though.

People who keep pining for the higher contact days of the 70s and 80s keep forgetting that that was before the weightlifting and HGH era we're in now.  Allow that kind of stuff today and a lot of good players will be missing a lot of games from injury.  Hell, TJ Ford would probably be dead.

i just don't see the incident the way that you did....

and you are assuming that any negative impact of losing Perk or fouls called on Perk because of a reputation, etc would be the reason we lose a game when you note a negative impact resulting from this...it goes both ways there.

i'm not saying that we would have lost last night if not for the hard foul, but i do think the team responded well to the message sent by Perk against a team that had been banging with us all night.

this was not a "trying to hurt you" or even a "dangerous" (ala the TJ Ford situation you mentioned) foul.

he came down hard on a guy that had been throwing his weight around (and as someone else noted, fouled Eddie on THAT play to get the rebound). he got tossed (deserved) and may get a suspension.

like i said, i don't have a problem with a suspension, but i also don't have a problem with the message being sent....

it just didn't seem like a dangerous foul to me...and that's where i draw the line.

[Michael Anthony]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

or it could help....we don't know for sure.

if he gets tossed from a key playoff game and we lose or he gets a T at a really bad time and we lose, etc...then maybe you can make the case that he hurt the team.

but maybe it goes the way it went last night and the other team gets rattled and we win...

in general, i think you need to let other teams know you're there. that's championship ball.

sure, it's possible to step over the line and hurt your team, but that's not what happened IMO.

plus, as someone pointed out, Perk has cut way back on his Ts. and if other teams give a second look to Perk as they drive in the lane, then all the better.

they certainly know he's there because he will let you know one way or another.

Yeah, but that assumes we would've lost if he hadn't gotten the flagrant, and that we'll win the next game if he's suspended.  I think we would've won last night no matter what happens on that play.  And committing a flagrant foul in a 5 point game with 6 minutes left is ALWAYS stupid.

Basically, I'm fine with Perk clobbering people to prevent layups.  I'm fine with him using his bulk to physically intimidate opponents.  I'm fine with him knocking people on their back, especially a stationary guy without a full head of steam.  Hitting someone on the back of the neck and THEN following through to throw him to the ground facefirst, that's out of line and he deserves the penalties he'll get.  And no matter what he says to try and duck a suspension, he knew exactly what he was doing. I'll give you that it couldn't've happened to a more deserving guy though.

People who keep pining for the higher contact days of the 70s and 80s keep forgetting that that was before the weightlifting and HGH era we're in now.  Allow that kind of stuff today and a lot of good players will be missing a lot of games from injury.  Hell, TJ Ford would probably be dead.

Good discussion gang, glad to see I am not the only one backing the Perkules on this.

One point to make - guys like Eddy Curry, the Collins Twins, and Ilgauskus have as much bulk as Perkins - but they do not intimidate because they do not mix it up.

As an aside, I would not support him as much if he tossed Iverson or Hamilton; that would make him a bully. Handling the other teams enforcer is a different story than taking out the other teams point guard.

[fairweatherfan]

i just don't see the incident the way that you did....

and you are assuming that any negative impact of losing Perk or fouls called on Perk because of a reputation, etc would be the reason we lose a game when you note a negative impact resulting from this...it goes both ways there.

i'm not saying that we would have lost last night if not for the hard foul, but i do think the team responded well to the message sent by Perk against a team that had been banging with us all night.

this was not a "trying to hurt you" or even a "dangerous" (ala the TJ Ford situation you mentioned) foul.

he came down hard on a guy that had been throwing his weight around (and as someone else noted, fouled Eddie on THAT play to get the rebound). he got tossed (deserved) and may get a suspension.

like i said, i don't have a problem with a suspension, but i also don't have a problem with the message being sent....

it just didn't seem like a dangerous foul to me...and that's where i draw the line.

Well, I think we're just gonna disagree - I see throwing a guy facefirst into the paint as generally dangerous, at the least Maxiell could've broken a wrist catching himself.  Not that I'd shed any tears for the man, but I still consider that a dangerous play that happened after the primary play (Maxiell's upward momentum was stopped and the ball was gone before Perk started to throw him downward).  I don't support the action, but I'll always support Perk and the rest of the C's.

TP for a reasoned disagreement instead of exaggerating my words, getting emotional, or playing Internet Tough Guy too.  Need more of that around here.

[Birdbrain]

Well there is 0% he gets any more than 1 game.  But beyond your hyperbolic thug comments I support Perk fouling Maxiell hard as heck without trying to hurt him.  The fact that he crumpled at the hands of the mighty Perk makes no difference to me.  Take a game off Perk we'll see you Philly.

I'm assuming this is for me - how is saying that there will be a perception that Perk is a thug hyperbolic?  I very specifically said I didn't consider him a thug, but others would after seeing that play. Whether it matters to you or not, if you don't think some people, including within the league, will have that reaction then you're nuts. 

Incidents like this are what push players closer to the Artest Zone, where refs will T and flagrant them, and the commish will suspend them, for anything borderline because of their past history.  Artest deserves to be there, Perk doesn't.  This hurts our team in the short run and could hurt Perk's ability to do his job in the long run.

Or not you have no idea what other people will think.  We disagree.  You think you know what other people will think and I think you don't and are blowing it out of proportion.  See Artest Zone for an example of hyperbole.