I think part of the reason people won't give Carter the benefit of the doubt, is the fact that he's gotten it throughout his career. He's started plenty of all-star games when he either didn't deserve to start, or didn't even deserve to be on the team.
He is putting up some all-star type numbers, but no one can say in any degree of seriousness that he is playing better than Paul Pierce. The Nets are doing a lot better than anyone expected this year, but Carter is putting up the same numbers as last year, when they were horrible. The biggest differences are the huge emergence of Devin Harris and Brook Lopez.
On a side note, it was pretty pathetic that Ray Allen didn't even get a mention in Hollinger's article. Ray made the team last year, and he's having a better season so far this year. He may not make it this year because of the emergence of Granger, Harris, etc., but he needs to be in the discussion. We've won a lot of games this year off his hot shooting.
I was going to make much the same reply, but celtic saved me the trouble.
Also, my biggest problem with it would be that vince is god awful at defense, mostly due to a severe aversion to effort, and hollinger discounts one entire half of the floor because its hard to quantify in his precious PER stat.
Granger, Pierce, Lebron and KG are all markedly better than Vince "I try when i feel like it" carter. another I would have a hard time putting Vince over: Josh Smith ( ATL plays really, really good basketball with him in.)
Let's go over the various ways this post comes off slightly ignorant. First, Hollinger does not solely rely on PER. If he did, he would have named Bosh starter rather than KG.
Power forward: Kevin Garnett, Celtics
Most of the choices on this list were relatively easy; this is the one exception. Splitting hairs among Garnett and Chris Bosh is tough, especially when both are birds of a feather as long, lean power forwards who like to play away from the basket.
Bosh's numbers are superior in most respects. He has a better PER (23.27 to 21.34); he has played substantially more minutes (38.6 to 32.6); and his team's inferior win-loss record is easily explained away by comparing the people that surround them.
But Garnett is the ultimate choice for the simple reason that his intensity at the defensive end still percolates through the rest of the roster, allowing the Celtics to be among the league's elite teams at that end even while taking opponents' best shot every night. In the end, their numbers are close enough that the D puts KG over the top.
Hollinger actually watches the games too, believe it or not. This was a perfect example of him accounting for defense and not just PER.
This notion that Vince "only tries when he wants to" is mind bogglingly overblown and has really only happened once in his career - in Toronto. Last year's struggles had nothing to do with effort - but injuries. Now, one can call Vince injury-prone, but that is a different discussion. Once Kidd got traded, Vince upped his game to another level but did not have the talent around him to succeed. People do not realize just how toxic Jason Kidd was last season to the Nets. Talk about how reputations precede.
People are quick to point out that Vince played with Jason Kidd. Vince's first two years with NJ could be argued as 2 of the best of his career in terms of all-around game - career highs in rebounds and assists. Vince has played hard most of his time in NJ, people just choose not to realize it because of one bad stretch in Toronto.
Also, even if you think that Vince only tries when he feels like it, the bottom line is - Vince has "tried" all season. This is not an All-Star game of past accomplishments - it's only for this year. Vince should go in.
Vince has put up similar offensive numbers to Pierce while not having nearly the offensive weapons to take the pressure off him. Vince's defense is really not as bad as some make it seem.
Dispute your thinly veiled swipe at my intelligence, which i really don't think is necessary just because I don’t agree with your line of thinking, i stand by my opinion of Hollinger’s stat, which I Don't think is useful when discussing all aspects of the game. I think its an ok stat, nothing more.
Also, i never mentioned Jason Kidd, if you want to absolve Carter of any relation to having subpar years, recorded wise, by laying it all on J-Kidd, fine, good, go nuts. I have zero interest in that, it doesn't relate to my thought that Vince shouldn't be an all star one bit.
I also Question along with Tim if the Nets are really exceeding expectations to such a degree that suddenly i should give Vince more credit. Harris is certainly exceeding my expectations, as is lopez, but overall, there about where i thought they might end up, slightly better.
IMO these forwards (with KG and lebron out of the list since they have spots) are more important to there teams, by far, than Vince and deserve a reserve spot.
Pierce
Granger
J.Smith
R.Lewis
Hedo
in roughly that order, sorry if that comes off "slightly ignorant" again.
Topic: Hollinger picks Vince Carter over Pierce or Allen (Read 21902 times)