Wise to Keep Bill Walker?

[xmuscularghandix]

i would really love if our bench consisted of a rotation between:

House
Pruitt
Pierce
Powe
BBD


and

Pruitt
RAllen
Walker
Powe
BBD

[crownsy]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

[xmuscularghandix]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

thats right, bill is a three.

[spazmonkey]

i would really love if our bench consisted of a rotation between:

House
Pruitt
Pierce
Powe
BBD


and

Pruitt
RAllen
Walker
Powe
BBD

XM -- in that first group, why do you like House at the one?  Bringing the ball up the court isn't his strongest suit and it limits his opportunities to catch and shoot.  Do you think Gabe's weaknesses at PG are a wash?

[xmuscularghandix]

i would really love if our bench consisted of a rotation between:

House
Pruitt
Pierce
Powe
BBD


and

Pruitt
RAllen
Walker
Powe
BBD

XM -- in that first group, why do you like House at the one?  Bringing the ball up the court isn't his strongest suit and it limits his opportunities to catch and shoot.  Do you think Gabe's weaknesses at PG are a wash?

i was thinking more along the lines of: those guys are the guards, eddie is too small to guard the 2, where pruitt can guard them quite well. i was thinking more defensively. but pruitt would DEFENITLY handle the ball.

[EJPLAYA]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

[Chris]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

Because its not about numbers, it is about how they play.  And if you watch POB for more than 2 or 3 trips at the time, you see a ton of mistakes, and you see a lack of focus.  Walker on the other hand showed tremendous focus, and very few mistakes the entire 4th quarter.

Pretty simply, I think garbagetime stats are completely useless.  It also is very difficult to tell much about a players skills in garbage-time, because if the other team isn't playing hard defense, 99% of NBA players can look pretty [dang] good.  But things like effort and focus, certainly can be seen. 

And like I said before, I have no idea if Walker is actually ready for real NBA action.  But it is a hell of a good sign that he is able to lock in like he did for the entire 4th quarter.  That is certainly something you very rarely see.

[EJPLAYA]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

Because its not about numbers, it is about how they play.  And if you watch POB for more than 2 or 3 trips at the time, you see a ton of mistakes, and you see a lack of focus.  Walker on the other hand showed tremendous focus, and very few mistakes the entire 4th quarter.

Pretty simply, I think garbagetime stats are completely useless.  It also is very difficult to tell much about a players skills in garbage-time, because if the other team isn't playing hard defense, 99% of NBA players can look pretty [dang] good.  But things like effort and focus, certainly can be seen. 

And like I said before, I have no idea if Walker is actually ready for real NBA action.  But it is a hell of a good sign that he is able to lock in like he did for the entire 4th quarter.  That is certainly something you very rarely see.

Just because someone doesn't have a crazed dog look on their face like KG, doesn't mean they aren't focused and intense about being out there. Man up defense on a smaller player who drives to the basket looks a whole lot difference than someone sitting in the post trying to control the middle. Sure POB isn't in "defensive position" on his man at the perimeter sliding his feet like crazy, but he is going after shots and rebounding and trying to keep his man off the boards.

This ridiculous notion that POB isn't giving any effort out there is completely unfounded and tiring. If it were true the guy wouldn't be putting the stats on the board that he does. Tommy wouldn't be begging to see more of him out there in his broadcast. Just like Scal, there is a group of people who have decided they don't like him and won't give him a chance no matter what he does.

This has nothing to do with Walker. I like the kid and am excited that he will be a big part of this team for a long time and more importantly will boot TA to the curb. It is ridiculous though that he gets a different set of rules based on him being the chosen one...

[crownsy]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

Because its not about numbers, it is about how they play.  And if you watch POB for more than 2 or 3 trips at the time, you see a ton of mistakes, and you see a lack of focus.  Walker on the other hand showed tremendous focus, and very few mistakes the entire 4th quarter.

Pretty simply, I think garbagetime stats are completely useless.  It also is very difficult to tell much about a players skills in garbage-time, because if the other team isn't playing hard defense, 99% of NBA players can look pretty [dang] good.  But things like effort and focus, certainly can be seen. 

And like I said before, I have no idea if Walker is actually ready for real NBA action.  But it is a hell of a good sign that he is able to lock in like he did for the entire 4th quarter.  That is certainly something you very rarely see.

Just because someone doesn't have a crazed dog look on their face like KG, doesn't mean they aren't focused and intense about being out there. Man up defense on a smaller player who drives to the basket looks a whole lot difference than someone sitting in the post trying to control the middle. Sure POB isn't in "defensive position" on his man at the perimeter sliding his feet like crazy, but he is going after shots and rebounding and trying to keep his man off the boards.

This ridiculous notion that POB isn't giving any effort out there is completely unfounded and tiring. If it were true the guy wouldn't be putting the stats on the board that he does. Tommy wouldn't be begging to see more of him out there in his broadcast. Just like Scal, there is a group of people who have decided they don't like him and won't give him a chance no matter what he does.

This has nothing to do with Walker. I like the kid and am excited that he will be a big part of this team for a long time and more importantly will boot TA to the curb. It is ridiculous though that he gets a different set of rules based on him being the chosen one...

POB moved up a notch last night, he played well, but i think the difference would be the 2 air balls you neglected to mention and the 2 blown rotations that lead to easy NJ buckets that has him in the dog house.

He's not picking up the defensive schemes, thats why a D-league call up who looked like he was got 12 minutes and he got 3 and looked lost on several defensive trips.

[xmuscularghandix]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

Because its not about numbers, it is about how they play.  And if you watch POB for more than 2 or 3 trips at the time, you see a ton of mistakes, and you see a lack of focus.  Walker on the other hand showed tremendous focus, and very few mistakes the entire 4th quarter.

Pretty simply, I think garbagetime stats are completely useless.  It also is very difficult to tell much about a players skills in garbage-time, because if the other team isn't playing hard defense, 99% of NBA players can look pretty [dang] good.  But things like effort and focus, certainly can be seen. 

And like I said before, I have no idea if Walker is actually ready for real NBA action.  But it is a hell of a good sign that he is able to lock in like he did for the entire 4th quarter.  That is certainly something you very rarely see.

Just because someone doesn't have a crazed dog look on their face like KG, doesn't mean they aren't focused and intense about being out there. Man up defense on a smaller player who drives to the basket looks a whole lot difference than someone sitting in the post trying to control the middle. Sure POB isn't in "defensive position" on his man at the perimeter sliding his feet like crazy, but he is going after shots and rebounding and trying to keep his man off the boards.

This ridiculous notion that POB isn't giving any effort out there is completely unfounded and tiring. If it were true the guy wouldn't be putting the stats on the board that he does. Tommy wouldn't be begging to see more of him out there in his broadcast. Just like Scal, there is a group of people who have decided they don't like him and won't give him a chance no matter what he does.

This has nothing to do with Walker. I like the kid and am excited that he will be a big part of this team for a long time and more importantly will boot TA to the curb. It is ridiculous though that he gets a different set of rules based on him being the chosen one...

the chosen one? he just played in his first real game. I've been sticking up for POB as well but he's a 3rd year player.... there is a different set of rules.

POB did play good though.

[EJPLAYA]

POB moved up a notch last night, he played well, but i think the difference would be the 2 air balls you neglected to mention and the 2 blown rotations that lead to easy NJ buckets that has him in the dog house.

He's not picking up the defensive schemes, thats why a D-league call up who looked like he was got 12 minutes and he got 3 and looked lost on several defensive trips.
[/quote]


BBD shoots a ton of air balls, and considering the guy has a very solid fg% that is just more trash talk about the guy. He is going to pick up those rotations better  as he gets more PT, but he does a lot of good things out there to make up for a missed rotation here and there.

[Goldstar88]

This is where he was rated coming out of High school before his injuries. Without those injuries the C's would not have him. Guaranteed first rounder. If we have to give him up to get a veteran I feel like it really will be Joe Johnson round 2.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&yr=2007&cfg=bb

[Chris]

I think that if we are implying the guy had a seemless transition and was doing exactly what he was supposed to we are overstating. I was in no way trying to say I didn't like what he brought to the table. I want to see more of him, especially if it means less of TA. Here's a couple nice things I liked:

He was agressive defensively
He went after the boards on offense and defense
Except for that almost charge he didn't make stupid out of control plays.
He didn't try and do more to impress the coaches than he had to.

What I didn't like:

He just sat over there on the side for most of the time. (at least not making mistakes or disrupting things)
His agressive defense was often overcommitting like TA does. (fortunately he has the athletic ability to make up for it)

Here's the key though. Even the mistakes were due to him making an attempt to help the team and play within himself. He may not be completely ready yet, but I don't know that he brings less to the table than TA. I don't know if you threw him out there in TA's minutes that he would perform much worse, but Gabe might be a safer option for a while longer.

yea, i mean, i think we have to realize that those that are commenting on how good he looked (like me) are well aware that he's a rookie. No ones shooting over the moon for garbage time. But those 12 minutes are all we have to anyalize, and for those 12 minutes he played well.

also, i dont think his time impacts gabes. The C's used him as a 3 last night.

If (and its a big if) he were to get non-garbage time, it would be at the 3, cutting scal/TA's hodgepodge 6-10 minutes a night spelling paul.

Real funny how we can say how great Walker looked and that he should get more minutes on the floor based on this "garbage time" stretch, yet when anyone on here suggests that POB get the same opportunity to get more minutes based on his great numbers in garbage time they get run out of town on a rail!

Another solid showing by POB by the way. 2 pts, 2 boards, a blocked shot in 5 minutes.

Because its not about numbers, it is about how they play.  And if you watch POB for more than 2 or 3 trips at the time, you see a ton of mistakes, and you see a lack of focus.  Walker on the other hand showed tremendous focus, and very few mistakes the entire 4th quarter.

Pretty simply, I think garbagetime stats are completely useless.  It also is very difficult to tell much about a players skills in garbage-time, because if the other team isn't playing hard defense, 99% of NBA players can look pretty [dang] good.  But things like effort and focus, certainly can be seen. 

And like I said before, I have no idea if Walker is actually ready for real NBA action.  But it is a hell of a good sign that he is able to lock in like he did for the entire 4th quarter.  That is certainly something you very rarely see.

Just because someone doesn't have a crazed dog look on their face like KG, doesn't mean they aren't focused and intense about being out there. Man up defense on a smaller player who drives to the basket looks a whole lot difference than someone sitting in the post trying to control the middle. Sure POB isn't in "defensive position" on his man at the perimeter sliding his feet like crazy, but he is going after shots and rebounding and trying to keep his man off the boards.

This ridiculous notion that POB isn't giving any effort out there is completely unfounded and tiring. If it were true the guy wouldn't be putting the stats on the board that he does. Tommy wouldn't be begging to see more of him out there in his broadcast. Just like Scal, there is a group of people who have decided they don't like him and won't give him a chance no matter what he does.

This has nothing to do with Walker. I like the kid and am excited that he will be a big part of this team for a long time and more importantly will boot TA to the curb. It is ridiculous though that he gets a different set of rules based on him being the chosen one...

Let me be clear, I am not saying POB isn't giving effort.  I think he is giving the same amount of effort that the vast majority of players give in garbagetime.  Walker on the other hand was playing like it was game 7 of the finals. 

And as far as the focus thing.  It is not about having any sort of look on his face, it is about consistently making the correct rotations and right movements, and always being aware of what is going on.  POB has shown the exact same problem Tony Allen has always shown.  He will look great for a couple plays, then he will seem to zone out for a couple plays.

[Chris]

He is going to pick up those rotations better  as he gets more PT, but he does a lot of good things out there to make up for a missed rotation here and there.

But see, this is my whole point about Walker.  There is no need to make excuses like this, because he took advantage of his time out there.  No one needs to argue that he will pick up the rotations with more playing time, because he went out there, and was arguably the best player on the floor during the little playing time he was given.

Perhaps you are right about POB (although I highly doubt it...but I will happily give you TPs if you are), but I just don't think the C's are in a position where they can simply give someone more playing time, just hoping they will learn the defensive rotations. 

This team is built on good, sound, team defense.  They aren't going to make an exception about that for POB.  If he simply needs more playing time, then perhaps he can go down to the NBDL.  Otherwise, he needs to start stepping it up when he is out there, or else he is never going to win over Doc's trust.

[EJPLAYA]

He is going to pick up those rotations better  as he gets more PT, but he does a lot of good things out there to make up for a missed rotation here and there.

But see, this is my whole point about Walker.  There is no need to make excuses like this, because he took advantage of his time out there.  No one needs to argue that he will pick up the rotations with more playing time, because he went out there, and was arguably the best player on the floor during the little playing time he was given.

Perhaps you are right about POB (although I highly doubt it...but I will happily give you TPs if you are), but I just don't think the C's are in a position where they can simply give someone more playing time, just hoping they will learn the defensive rotations. 

This team is built on good, sound, team defense.  They aren't going to make an exception about that for POB.  If he simply needs more playing time, then perhaps he can go down to the NBDL.  Otherwise, he needs to start stepping it up when he is out there, or else he is never going to win over Doc's trust.

You guys are being way too generous in your comments about how he played. I went back and re-watched that stretch, and yes I did notice he at times was playing good d, much of that was because I was focusing on it. He wasn't perfect. You're making him out to have played this unreal game and it just wasn't the case. He was solid at times. He didn't make a ton of mistakes. I was absolutely thrilled with what we got out of him last night and want to see a lot more of him. He wasn't this unbelievable player ready to go out there and take over the second unit though.

I think the numbers speak for themselves about POB. He IS stepping it up when he is out there. He is doing everything asked of him, and for a guy with very little court time against NBA players, he is doing a fine job. BBD makes more mistakes out there on the floor than POB does. Heck, they all miss assignments and rotations, including the starters. To single the guy out for a couple missed rotations yet completely ignore all the good things he is doing out there is just an agenda against the guy. No different than the Scal haters.