Celtics workout Darius Miles....And the he looks good ?!

[Brickowski]

The most interesting issue with Miles has nothing to do with basketball.  The question is whether or not Kevin Pritchard and the Blazers' doctors committed insurance fraud when they declared Miles' knee injury to be "career ending" (which meant that Miles came off Portland's cap and that the insurance company became obligated to pay the rest of Miles' contract).  If Miles signs with any team and is able to play, the Blazers are going to get sued.

Very good point, Brick. TP.

I doubt very much that there's a lawsuit, even if Miles does play.  What fraud did Portland's doctors commit, especially if the "career ending" diagnosis was confirmed by NBA physicians, as well as (presumably) the insurance company's doctors?

Doctors have incorrect diagnoses all the time.  That doesn't mean there was any nefarious intent.  Intent, of course, is an element of fraud.

The only protection the insurance company is likely to have will be the contingencies they've built into their own contract.  I'm sure that contract took into account things like what would happen if Miles recovered sufficiently to resume his career.

Did the insurance co.'s doctors examine Miles?  Maybe the policy does not give them a right to do so, or maybe they dropped the ball. I'd also be willing to bet that, given the amounts involved and the potential luxury tax hit, a showing of scienter is not out of the question, and the policy may have its own definition of intent.

No, I don't think there will be a lawsuit.  I think Portland will give the money back without a fight because if Miles plays effectively during the 2008-09 season the Blazers have no case.  Here we have a player with an allegedly "career ending" injury cavorting around, working out for teams and reportedly looking good.  I'm not aware of a single player with an allegedly career ending injury (e.g. Jonathan Bender, Alvin Williams) who has ever done that.

[pearljammer10]

I love the sound of this title thread...I really want to give Miles a chance. He is only 26 and i think if he's healthy he can be a great reserve off the bench.

[Roy Hobbs]

Did the insurance co.'s doctors examine Miles?  Maybe the policy does not give them a right to do so, or maybe they dropped the ball.

Almost always, from my experience.

I'd also be willing to bet that, given the amounts involved and the potential luxury tax hit, a showing of scienter is not out of the question, and the policy may have its own definition of intent.

I suppose it's possible to write a new definition for knowing conduct into an insurance contract.  I think it's unlikely, though, that the Blazers would sign a contract that had them on the hook for something they didn't have actual knowledge of.

No, I don't think there will be a lawsuit.  I think Portland will give the money back without a fight because if Miles plays effectively during the 2008-09 season the Blazers have no case.  Here we have a player with an allegedly "career ending" injury cavorting around, working out for teams and reportedly looking good.  I'm not aware of a single player with an allegedly career ending injury (e.g. Jonathan Bender, Alvin Williams) who has ever done that.

Again, it comes down to what the language of the insurance contract is.  If it's based upon whether the injury was, in fact, career ending, I assume Portland give at least some money back.  If it's couched in whether a player is physically unable to play, I expect both sides to take a wait-and-see approach to see how Miles comeback goes.  If it's described as physically unable to play at or near his former level, that makes things easier for Portland to collect all insurance monies. 

These contracts are negotiated by lawyers being paid several hundred dollars per hour; I'm sure each side has hammered out every potential contingency in advance.   

[BballTim]

And as for fair value, you're absolutely right, my assessment is based on 20-20 hindsight. But this whole thing started with hindsight. Byrdman said he wanted to get back at the Blazers for "stealing Roy" from us. I said that I don't care that the Blazers gave less than fair value to get Roy. I was responding to somebody else saying it was stealing. All of this was said using 20-20 hindsight and the knowledge that Brandon Roy was Rookie of the Year and an All Star. If not for that, nobody would be calling this "stealing" in the first place. You are also using 20-20 hindsight - using a championship that happened a year after a trade that happened a year after another trade to justify the original trade. We're all using 20-20 hindsight. What is your point?

  I'm not using hindsight to justify the trade. I'm evaluating the trade based on what really happened, as opposed to what people thought happened. Most of the people on these boards thought that Danny traded the #6 pick to save money. Everyone thought that they were going to let Theo expire. This was an incorrect assumption. In addition to getting Telfair and getting rid of Raef's contract, we acquired a large expiring contract to trade for a max contract player. Theo's contract had a lot of value as a trading chip and nobody counted that value when they evaluated the trade.

[Brickowski]

These contracts are negotiated by lawyers being paid several hundred dollars per hour; I'm sure each side has hammered out every potential contingency in advance.   

Nah, the insurance company's lawyer is probably in-house and makes considerably less than that, and the chief negotiator on the Portland side was probably the risk manager, not a lawyer. However, the policy itself is probably an NBA standard policy that was indeed vetted by high-priced lawyers.


This could be a unique situation.  Once again, no player with an injury that the league doctors (who must also be approved by the union) called "career ending" has every come back to play effectively.

[bucknersrevenge]

There were no knuckleheads on the championship roster.  Rivers' history of handling such players is bad.  I think the insinuation that knuckleheads are suddenly going to become accountable by Garnett's mere presence is silly.   Mr Blunt and Mr Davis were no more consistent or less bizarre in Minny than they were in Boston.  If they had visions of a bonehead athletic freak, Quintel Woods would have stuck.

not that i dont agree with you about miles cuz i do but in this case i dont think its JUST kg but that hed have to fall in line behind the entire big 3 of kg paul and ray and that this is a team coming off a championship with serious aspirations of making it back. not to mention 2 years away from the game youd like to think would help mature a kid that has to know he doesnt have many more chances in this league. but in the end people are gonna do what they want to do and hed have to WANT to fit in here. the big 3 cant make him.

his talent has never been in question. just his desire. ill trust danny on this one and if he interviews the kid and thinks hes worth a roll of the dice ill buy it but i couldnt see throwing this guy a major role on this team even ahead of giddens or pruitt right now.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I have to say, I'm a bit intrigued by the prospects of getting Darius Miles here. I wish we had some footage of the workouts (are there any?) just to see how he's moving in the court.

Not concerned about his attitude at all though.

[bucknersrevenge]

just for kicks imagine we do sign him and the birdman. 2 of issues last year were length and athleticism. imagine these 2 guys guys flyin down the court with giddens and rondo in the backcourt. we may have to install runway lights along the key and alert air traffic control whenever we have a game at home.

[BudweiserCeltic]

just for kicks imagine we do sign him and the birdman. 2 of issues last year were length and athleticism. imagine these 2 guys guys flyin down the court with giddens and rondo in the backcourt. we may have to install runway lights along the key and alert air traffic control whenever we have a game at home.

This is precisely what I want. A unit capable of defending and at the same time being extremely athletic and energetic. I don't know if those guys are the key to it, but I have been envisioning a combination of Rondo and Garnett, together with Giddens. Then the question comes, who'll be the SG/SF and the PF that gets added to the equation. Posey can be the PF... but who is the SG? I was envisioning Tony, a guy we should be able to have... but someone that fits the bill should be just fine.

I think this can end up being a very valuable unit, a high pace unit that can get up and down the court and still be capable of playing defense. Playing this type of unit 5-10 minutes a game, with the change of pace from our normal half-court game could potentially be deadly. You need to rest KG? Then maybe Birdman can spell some minutes here. Maybe you go big and energetic, capable of defense with having both of them in. Move Posey to the 3, Giddens/Tony to the 2, and Rondo at the one... that should be quite a unit too.

There are many ways to go, I just don't want our team to be content with adding Posey and feeling that Giddens is the replacement for Tony. Another wing player capable of playing defense and attacking can be very valuable to this team just for the make-up it'll give some of our units and the flexibility it'll give.

[CsfanNH]

I will only accept Darius Miles as a Boston Celtic if he stops doing that stupid hands to the head celebratory gesture. Annoys the p--- out of me.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I will only accept Darius Miles as a Boston Celtic if he stops doing that stupid hands to the head celebratory gesture. Annoys the **** out of me.

Well, if he does it consistantly with us it'll mean that he's scoring... with that thought I hope he does it a ton of times, and I could care less if it annoys the hell out of you.

[Jeff]

good article on Miles

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/07/17/miles/index.html

[fairweatherfan06]

Good article I wish him luck.  I didn't know KG was his idol?  I wish signing him wasn't such a gamble,  I think he could do well playing on the same team (a championship one at that) with his idol KG.

[Gemini]

I think hes worth a flyer

[crownsy]

Good article I wish him luck.  I didn't know KG was his idol?  I wish signing him wasn't such a gamble,  I think he could do well playing on the same team (a championship one at that) with his idol KG.

not a gamble at the vet min, which is all i would offer.