Tyronn Lue to the Celtics?

[crownsy]

Tyronn Lue hoped to join the Celtics before signing a two-year, $5 million contract with Milwaukee yesterday.

Lue, a 10-year veteran who was a backup point guard with Atlanta and Dallas last season, had phone conversations with Celtics general manager Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers recently. Lue said he would have joined the Celtics for $1.8 million annually, but the Celtics held firm on a one-year, $1.2 million (the veteran minimum) offer.

"I'm disappointed," Lue said. "We were trying to get it done there for so long. I don't know why an extra [$600,000] was a big deal. I would have taken less than I took with Milwaukee. But they didn't want to do it."

Worth noting, if not worth much discussion? I like Lue, but it would appear we already offered our LLE to Patrick O'Byrant - sigh. And if Ainge were going to spend MLE money on a back up point guard - which appears doubtful - I'd prefer he resign House.

i really had no intrest in lue, so mabey im biased, but to me, not only does he overestamate his worth (1.8 million is a little much for you lue, id rather give that kind of money to eddie house) but i just think thier are better backups avalable, including one eddie house, who i still hold out hope for.

[kozlodoev]

"I'm disappointed," Lue said. "We were trying to get it done there for so long. I don't know why an extra [$600,000] was a big deal. I would have taken less than I took with Milwaukee. But they didn't want to do it."

Tyronn needs to call his agent, who will then promptly explain to him that what is $600,000 for Lue is $3 million (yes, $3,000,000) to the Celtics. So yeah, that's the big deal.

[johnnyrondo]

Tyronn Lue hoped to join the Celtics before signing a two-year, $5 million contract with Milwaukee yesterday.

Lue, a 10-year veteran who was a backup point guard with Atlanta and Dallas last season, had phone conversations with Celtics general manager Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers recently. Lue said he would have joined the Celtics for $1.8 million annually, but the Celtics held firm on a one-year, $1.2 million (the veteran minimum) offer.

"I'm disappointed," Lue said. "We were trying to get it done there for so long. I don't know why an extra [$600,000] was a big deal. I would have taken less than I took with Milwaukee. But they didn't want to do it."

Worth noting, if not worth much discussion? I like Lue, but it would appear we already offered our LLE to Patrick O'Byrant - sigh. And if Ainge were going to spend MLE money on a back up point guard - which appears doubtful - I'd prefer he resign House.

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

[kozlodoev]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

[johnnyrondo]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

U already used that poor math before. The luxury tax isn't 5 times the amount. Also, you can't blame every player on the luxury tax. Are u saying kg costs us 50 mil or scal 6 mil a yr? I know how the luxury tax works (and its not 5 times), but you don't buy a porsche and then ask for hub caps instead of rims to save a litle in the end. And my KG 600k thing was a joke with KG just giving it toLue under the table, which has nothing to do with the Celtics. Personally I'd rather keep House. Even if that means giving House another 600K

[The Walker Wiggle]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more.

TP JohnnyRondo, that's the silver lining I hadn't thought of.

I understand why the Celtics didn't raise their offer, that said, I'm less and less confident that Ainge is going to re-sign House or even add someone of Lue's caliber. We're more likely to see this position filled by committee, just like the small forward spot. Pruitt and Cassell? Sam is an unpopular option here, but he  fits one of Ainge's criteria: he's willing to sign a one year deal for the veteran minimum.

Management seems optimistic that a year of familiarity and the improvement of our young players will be upgrade enough.

[Roy Hobbs]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

U already used that poor math before. The luxury tax isn't 5 times the amount. Also, you can't blame every player on the luxury tax. Are u saying kg costs us 50 mil or scal 6 mil a yr? I know how the luxury tax works (and its not 5 times), but you don't buy a porsche and then ask for hub caps instead of rims to save a litle in the end. And my KG 600k thing was a joke with KG just giving it toLue under the table, which has nothing to do with the Celtics. Personally I'd rather keep House. Even if that means giving House another 600K

The math isn't so far off.

Here's how it works.  If the Celtics sign a player for the vet minimum, they're only responsible for roughly the first $800k, no matter what the actual contract is (in Lue's case, roughly $1.2 million).  The NBA actually pays the rest.  Also, that $800k is the only amount that counts against the luxury tax.

So, if we sign Lue to a vet minimum contract, we're only on the hook for $800k, plus another $800k that we pay because we're over the tax limit.  Thus, $1.6 million.

If we sign Lue for $1.8 million, we don't get any reimbursement from the NBA, and we pay another $1.8 million for luxury tax.

So, in actuality, the difference between a $1.2 million vet minimum contract, and a $1.8 million LLE contract, is $2 million.  Obviously, if you gave Lue a second year, the disparity becomes even greater.

[steve]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

U already used that poor math before. The luxury tax isn't 5 times the amount. Also, you can't blame every player on the luxury tax. Are u saying kg costs us 50 mil or scal 6 mil a yr? I know how the luxury tax works (and its not 5 times), but you don't buy a porsche and then ask for hub caps instead of rims to save a litle in the end. And my KG 600k thing was a joke with KG just giving it toLue under the table, which has nothing to do with the Celtics. Personally I'd rather keep House. Even if that means giving House another 600K

The math isn't so far off.

Here's how it works.  If the Celtics sign a player for the vet minimum, they're only responsible for roughly the first $800k, no matter what the actual contract is (in Lue's case, roughly $1.2 million).  The NBA actually pays the rest.  Also, that $800k is the only amount that counts against the luxury tax.

So, if we sign Lue to a vet minimum contract, we're only on the hook for $800k, plus another $800k that we pay because we're over the tax limit.  Thus, $1.6 million.

If we sign Lue for $1.8 million, we don't get any reimbursement from the NBA, and we pay another $1.8 million for luxury tax.

So, in actuality, the difference between a $1.2 million vet minimum contract, and a $1.8 million LLE contract, is $2 million.  Obviously, if you gave Lue a second year, the disparity becomes even greater.

Thank you for explaining that. 

[kozlodoev]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

U already used that poor math before. The luxury tax isn't 5 times the amount. Also, you can't blame every player on the luxury tax. Are u saying kg costs us 50 mil or scal 6 mil a yr? I know how the luxury tax works (and its not 5 times), but you don't buy a porsche and then ask for hub caps instead of rims to save a litle in the end. And my KG 600k thing was a joke with KG just giving it toLue under the table, which has nothing to do with the Celtics. Personally I'd rather keep House. Even if that means giving House another 600K

The math isn't so far off.

Here's how it works.  If the Celtics sign a player for the vet minimum, they're only responsible for roughly the first $800k, no matter what the actual contract is (in Lue's case, roughly $1.2 million).  The NBA actually pays the rest.  Also, that $800k is the only amount that counts against the luxury tax.

So, if we sign Lue to a vet minimum contract, we're only on the hook for $800k, plus another $800k that we pay because we're over the tax limit.  Thus, $1.6 million.

If we sign Lue for $1.8 million, we don't get any reimbursement from the NBA, and we pay another $1.8 million for luxury tax.

So, in actuality, the difference between a $1.2 million vet minimum contract, and a $1.8 million LLE contract, is $2 million.  Obviously, if you gave Lue a second year, the disparity becomes even greater.

Used basically the same math, just thought that the league sponsors 50% of the pro-rated vet minimum contracts, and they don't count against the luxury tax. Got a bit confused, I guess. In any case, those mere 600k have more serious implications than it looks.

[Roy Hobbs]

Used basically the same math, just thought that the league sponsors 50% of the pro-rated vet minimum contracts, and they don't count against the luxury tax. Got a bit confused, I guess. In any case, those mere 600k have more serious implications than it looks.

Yeah, how the actual rule works is that if a vet is playing under a contract of one year or less and signs for the minimum, the NBA pays any amount greater than the league minimum for a two-year vet.  For this season, the two-year minimum is $797,581, whereas the minimum salary for a 10-year vet (like Lue) is $1,219,590.  So, the league pays $422,009 of that amount.

[Cman]

It's nice to see a guy wanting to play for the C's so bad that he's lamenting not signing after signing with another team for a lot more. i guess Lue and KG aren't that good friends. KG could of covered the 600k. Might of brought his salary under 25 mil though

The measly "600k" will cost the club 3 million. Welcome to the wonderful world of luxury tax.

U already used that poor math before. The luxury tax isn't 5 times the amount. Also, you can't blame every player on the luxury tax. Are u saying kg costs us 50 mil or scal 6 mil a yr? I know how the luxury tax works (and its not 5 times), but you don't buy a porsche and then ask for hub caps instead of rims to save a litle in the end. And my KG 600k thing was a joke with KG just giving it toLue under the table, which has nothing to do with the Celtics. Personally I'd rather keep House. Even if that means giving House another 600K

The math isn't so far off.

Here's how it works.  If the Celtics sign a player for the vet minimum, they're only responsible for roughly the first $800k, no matter what the actual contract is (in Lue's case, roughly $1.2 million).  The NBA actually pays the rest.  Also, that $800k is the only amount that counts against the luxury tax.

So, if we sign Lue to a vet minimum contract, we're only on the hook for $800k, plus another $800k that we pay because we're over the tax limit.  Thus, $1.6 million.

If we sign Lue for $1.8 million, we don't get any reimbursement from the NBA, and we pay another $1.8 million for luxury tax.

So, in actuality, the difference between a $1.2 million vet minimum contract, and a $1.8 million LLE contract, is $2 million.  Obviously, if you gave Lue a second year, the disparity becomes even greater.

I think one of johnnyrondo's points is that people on this board often like to dismiss the idea of signing a player because that player will cost "twice as much" because of the luxury tax.  It is not really true.  In the case of Lue, if he had signed here (by the way, I am glad he didn't sign here, I prefer House), the Cs would be on the hook for $1.6M as Roy points out.  But it is not $1.6 M because of Lue, it is $1.6M because all of the players on the team in aggregate get paid a lot of money.  So while signing Lue would increase owners costs by $1.6M, Lue himself costs $800K plus some small portion of the extra $800K, since the "blame" for that extra $800K should be apportioned across the all the players on the team. In fact, the player most to "blame" is KG.

[paintitgreen]

It is true that Lue does not specifically cause that. However, the fact remains, we are presently in a situation where every dollar of salary costs us two. It's not Lue's "fault," it's not Posey's "fault," it's not House's "fault" but, it's a fact of life now. While those guys didn't make us go over the luxury tax, their additional contracts cost us that extra money now, and we can't ignore that fact just because we already spent $72 million + for this year's roster already.

[kozlodoev]

I think one of johnnyrondo's points is that people on this board often like to dismiss the idea of signing a player because that player will cost "twice as much" because of the luxury tax.  It is not really true.  In the case of Lue, if he had signed here (by the way, I am glad he didn't sign here, I prefer House), the Cs would be on the hook for $1.6M as Roy points out.  But it is not $1.6 M because of Lue, it is $1.6M because all of the players on the team in aggregate get paid a lot of money.  So while signing Lue would increase owners costs by $1.6M, Lue himself costs $800K plus some small portion of the extra $800K, since the "blame" for that extra $800K should be apportioned across the all the players on the team. In fact, the player most to "blame" is KG.

There isn't blame to appoint here. There is a payoff for Lue and a cost to the team -- these are obviously two different things, which are not necessarily equal, i.e. a $1 payoff to the player is obviously not always equal to a $1 cost to the club.

However, the statement that 'he doesn't understand why 600k are so important' is naive at best. The 600k are important, because the current team status-quo more than triples them. It takes 15 minutes to figure that out, and not to make a fool of yourself in public.

[Cman]

It is true that Lue does not specifically cause that. However, the fact remains, we are presently in a situation where every dollar of salary costs us two. It's not Lue's "fault," it's not Posey's "fault," it's not House's "fault" but, it's a fact of life now. While those guys didn't make us go over the luxury tax, their additional contracts cost us that extra money now, and we can't ignore that fact just because we already spent $72 million + for this year's roster already.

Agreed.  Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with what anyone has written in this topic on Lue per se, it is just a general frustration that I have when "cost to the team of adding player X" gets mixed up with "cost of player X".  The two are different.

In any case, when I read T. Lue's statement posted by the OP my initial reaction was unsympathetic:        cry me a river Tyronn, cry me a river.

[incoherent]

It seems losing House and Posey in the off season is a little silly.