Author Topic: Tony Allen  (Read 15502 times)

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Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2008, 12:01:40 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Tony Allen played very well when Ray Allen was out and he stepped in as a starter. His great stats on 82 games, reflect that, as that was when he got almost all his PT. At the very worsy, TA would be good insurance against a Ray Allen injury. The problem with signing him as a bench guy, is he's never really showed great ability off the bench, he seems like one of those guys who needs to start to get himself going.

If he's going to sign with someone for MLE (or even LLE) money, we could probably do a sign and trade. We have an ability to outbid anyone for TA without using the MLE or LLE since he's a Bird rights guy.

All that being said, I like Tony Allen as a player (as a person, I'm not sure if he's a gangster wannabe, or just a naive guy from the wrong neighborhood) - so I'd like to see him succeed even if its elsewhere. I always thought he'd make a great starter next to Lebron as long as their were a couple other shooters on the floor. For example if they run a couple shooters at PG who can get the ball up, and Lebron runs the offense, then Tony just needs to worry about attacking. They'd need to have some shooters at the PF and C spots though, although I think Tony Allen is a better shooter than the stats have shown.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2008, 01:49:48 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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Tony is the shooter the stats have shown. Not a good one. He's a poor ballhandler, basically, everything EJPLAYA said about him. That's what Tony is. I like him, he makes me laugh, but if anybody gives him a deal at more than $2 mil per year, they're overpaying. Dooling's a better player without the injury problems, and Orlando just offered him the LLE. Tony won't get even that. If we can have him for a minimum contract, I'd keep him. If Posey leaves, I'd consider offering more. But honestly, I don't think he's worth a lot of money, and given our luxury tax situation, you don't spend $4 mil ($2 mil salary) on a guy like Tony Allen. He'll probably end up taking a minimum or maybe LLE offer elsewhere where he might get more playing time (like Orlando, maybe).

Also, the Cs may have been 3.0 points better defensively with him on the court, but it's ridiculously misleading to throw that stat out without also mentioning that the Celtics were 6 points worse offensively (113.8 without v. 107.8 with) with him on the court. That's a minus 3 differential. I'm not saying he causes that - there could be other factors contributing, especially considering he played a lot of minutes late in blowout games, but that affects his defensive performance too. You can't cherry pick stats like that. Well you can, but you shouldn't.

If he's cheap, I'm glad to have him back, but not making the qualifying offer was a good decision.
Go Celtics.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2008, 02:57:15 PM »

Offline RonJohn

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They drafted Tony Allen 2.0 in JR Giddens. He's Tony Allen without the injury problems & the same character problems (TA's Pistol Whip). TA is GONE! Let's all try to deal with it.

He's not coming back.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2008, 03:03:20 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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They drafted Tony Allen 2.0 in JR Giddens. He's Tony Allen without the injury problems & the same character problems (TA's Pistol Whip). TA is GONE! Let's all try to deal with it.

He's not coming back.

I think that's right, assuming they sign Giddens instead of renouncing him.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2008, 03:20:06 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Tony Allen played very well when Ray Allen was out and he stepped in as a starter. His great stats on 82 games, reflect that, as that was when he got almost all his PT. At the very worsy, TA would be good insurance against a Ray Allen injury. The problem with signing him as a bench guy, is he's never really showed great ability off the bench, he seems like one of those guys who needs to start to get himself going.

If he's going to sign with someone for MLE (or even LLE) money, we could probably do a sign and trade. We have an ability to outbid anyone for TA without using the MLE or LLE since he's a Bird rights guy.

All that being said, I like Tony Allen as a player (as a person, I'm not sure if he's a gangster wannabe, or just a naive guy from the wrong neighborhood) - so I'd like to see him succeed even if its elsewhere. I always thought he'd make a great starter next to Lebron as long as their were a couple other shooters on the floor. For example if they run a couple shooters at PG who can get the ball up, and Lebron runs the offense, then Tony just needs to worry about attacking. They'd need to have some shooters at the PF and C spots though, although I think Tony Allen is a better shooter than the stats have shown.


hes an awful shooter, have you seen his "form"

he is what he is, a good defensive guy off the bench. it sucks his injurys took away (either mentaly or physically, i can't decide which) that consistant explosivness he used to have slashing. now, every once in awhile you see it, but mostly he just looks awkward.

Also, his great stats on 82 games? liek what, his 5-1 TO/A ratio?

he did have two good games when he started for ray, btu thats alittle much to hang the "he can't come off the bench" argument on.

I'm not opposed to taking him back on a lower contract, but the celtics were right not to make a qualifing offer. teams aren't exacly beating down his door with 3 mill plus offers  ::)
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2008, 03:20:42 PM »

Offline Cman

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They drafted Tony Allen 2.0 in JR Giddens. He's Tony Allen without the injury problems & the same character problems (TA's Pistol Whip). TA is GONE! Let's all try to deal with it.

He's not coming back.

I think that's right, assuming they sign Giddens instead of renouncing him.

or instead of trading him.

Yeah, I think it is highly unlikely that Tony Allen is back with the Cs.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2008, 03:55:15 PM »

Offline makaveli

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I just don't know what to think of TA. He doesn't get much chance to play and when he does he just seams like a player that you pick when you are one man short and you pick some guy to fill in the spot. Doc needs to find a role for Tony but Tony has to establish himself as a 10 mpg guy.
I still believe in Tony
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2008, 10:10:48 PM »

Online JBcat

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I wouldn't mind having him back on the cheap.  At this point in the free agency period I don't see him getting much anywhere anyway.   I think it could a low risk high reward if we do re-sign him.   He did play very well before he got hurt averaging something like 18 ppg over a 20 game stretch and he did have a major injury so last season for the most part was a wash.   Being fully recovered from his injury going into next season I'm still very intrigued.   I think the turnover issue can be improved.  Many young players in their first few years struggle with turnovers just like Paul did when he was young.   Posey is not going to play the back up SG much especially as he gets older and would people really want only a rookie Giddens backing up Ray???  I liked the approach at PF last year where we had a rookie in Davis and Powe a second year player as backups.  I don't see why we can't have a similar approach with Giddens and TA next year and let them duke it out for playing time. 

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2008, 10:18:30 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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And yes, for the record I am making it my personal responsibility to remind the world of the following statement - I just can't get it out of my head.

Tony Allen's career ends with the Celtics' season.

heh?

I will forever give up posting on any sports related blog if Tony Allen has an NBA contract next year.


Do we have witnesses here?

I'm not a huge Tony Allen fan at this point, but you might want to aim a little lower on a "guaranteed out of the NBA" claim.

Do you think he'll get a better offer outside the league and jump on it, or do you just think he's fallen so badly that no one will give the guy a shot in the NBA?

I am a man of my word, Redz.

It's rather humorous to me that no one will back up the opposite POV with as adamant a claim.

It comes down to this: I truly believe TA is garbage.  If a team signs him, I clearly do not know what I'm talking about and will spare the masses of my pedagogy.

That is all.
God bless and good night!


Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2008, 10:19:47 PM »

Offline Edgar

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And yes, for the record I am making it my personal responsibility to remind the world of the following statement - I just can't get it out of my head.

Tony Allen's career ends with the Celtics' season.

heh?

I will forever give up posting on any sports related blog if Tony Allen has an NBA contract next year.


Do we have witnesses here?

I'm not a huge Tony Allen fan at this point, but you might want to aim a little lower on a "guaranteed out of the NBA" claim.

Do you think he'll get a better offer outside the league and jump on it, or do you just think he's fallen so badly that no one will give the guy a shot in the NBA?

I am a man of my word, Redz.

It's rather humorous to me that no one will back up the opposite POV with as adamant a claim.

It comes down to this: I truly believe TA is garbage.  If a team signs him, I clearly do not know what I'm talking about and will spare the masses of my pedagogy.

That is all.

a simple
ups i mess it up would be enough for me  ;D
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2008, 10:54:30 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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And yes, for the record I am making it my personal responsibility to remind the world of the following statement - I just can't get it out of my head.

Tony Allen's career ends with the Celtics' season.

heh?

I will forever give up posting on any sports related blog if Tony Allen has an NBA contract next year.


Do we have witnesses here?

I'm not a huge Tony Allen fan at this point, but you might want to aim a little lower on a "guaranteed out of the NBA" claim.

Do you think he'll get a better offer outside the league and jump on it, or do you just think he's fallen so badly that no one will give the guy a shot in the NBA?

I am a man of my word, Redz.

It's rather humorous to me that no one will back up the opposite POV with as adamant a claim.

It comes down to this: I truly believe TA is garbage.  If a team signs him, I clearly do not know what I'm talking about and will spare the masses of my pedagogy.

That is all.

So now I have to choose between you and Tony, Brick?  Tough call  :o ;)

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2008, 11:00:59 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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Hey, I'm more fun to hate on, if nothing else.
God bless and good night!


Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2008, 11:09:40 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Hey, I'm more fun to hate on, if nothing else.

Depends who you ask.  You may remember a visitor to the site some time ago (as in right smack in the middle of the playoff run and the day after the Finals) who was convinced that my purpose on this green Earth was to unfairly tear down the "great" and "smart" player that is Tony Allen.

But hey, Brick, I've got no shortage of love for ripping on you, too  ;D  The internal debate goes on...

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2008, 11:19:07 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Personally, I'm going to go on mind-altering drugs so I don't have a stroke the next time someone suggests Tony's a good replacement for James Posey.

 ;D
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Re: Tony Allen
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2008, 11:34:53 PM »

Offline zerophase

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i have no problem keeping ta around... however, i know that the celtics won't give him a nice contract, probably even one like the one posey's agent called "unacceptable". and the celtics will be at a take it or leave it bases so i think ta leaves for more money. i mean, even if he stays... he can't really get the playing he needs to break out again. we just drafted giddens and walker, both of which can do what ta does right now.

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