Posey will opt out, House wants to return

[cdif911]

Just because WE don't know what we have in Pruitt, doesn't mean that the team doesn't have a good idea on what they have with Pruitt. All points towards making him our back-up PG, and he simply wasn't ready to get extended minutes at the NBA level. He needed time on the floor, so you could argue that his time was better spent getting minutes in the development league instead of wasting time on the Celtics bench where he probably wouldn't have gotten enough minutes on the floor anyways wether we were playing Tony or not.  What you would've seen was probably a healthier dose of House in back-up PG minutes, and the Pierce/Allen-Posey combo for SG and SF.

I've told this story before, but I will again - I was at a C's practice this year, on SuperBowl Sunday actually - and Pruitt was the one guy who was totally clueless. Doc had to stop practice multiple times to get him to do things the right way - he's not a natural pg by any means. Now its good to see him getting coached and maybe he can be developed, but from what I saw, he was miles away from Rondo and even House as a backup PG - I've been a firm believer that pg's are pg's naturally, you can't teach someone the position - you can masquerede in it, especially on a good team, but pure pg's are few and far between.  They've done a lot of calling Rondo a combo guard, but I think his instincts are that of a pure pg, that's why he is so key to the future of this team.

[cordobes]

If we spend the full MLE on Posey or a similar player and if House and PJ Brown leave, then TA will probably stay. A bench of Posey, Scal, two undersized PFs, rookies and min salary vets (who hardly will be acceptable perimeter defenders) is not good enough.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I love how people prior to the season had zero expectations for Tony as he was in recovery mode, he has a down year, and suddenly he's treated as the worst player we could've possibly had. A player who was asked to handle the ball, playing out of position, and you can't give him a break when chances are the same circumstances won't happen again?

I keep asking you guys that want Tony Allen out, do you realize that we really have little ability to replace his roster spot with a more skilled or intelligent player? I think that's the portion of the argument people are having trouble with. Tony Allen should be very affordable to us, and replacing his roster spot with someone better will be very very hard. It makes zero sense to me to dump him for dumping him sake.

At the least, we can use him in some sort of trade... he has some trade value when combined with other "assets". It makes no sense to let him go for nothing.

Unless he is going to be named our new backup center, ball handling skills are needed in playing the 2 as well. That game clinching lefty layup by Ray demonstrates that pretty clearly. If that was TA he would have charged the guy and we might have had a different result. It is also pretty important to be able to shoot the ball at the 2. Considering he hasn't hit a 3 pointer since February I think that might be a little bit of an issue, since he can't create his own shot off the dribble. I am saddened by the fact that the guys injuries have left an explosive jumper and quick defender without the ability to do that any longer, but it doesn't change the fact that he isn't that same guy.

I am pretty affordable as well, but I doubt that I should be sitting there on the bench. The value to us in getting rid of him is to the ability to develop a young player or bring in a contributing veteran. All those minutes this year from TA, 1378 of them, could have been given to Pruitt. Then right now we'd know what we had in the kid vs. going into year 2 with a question mark.

Yet his turnover rate more than doubled when he played PG instead of SG. I could care less if he shoots the ball well or not. All I'm looking from Tony Allen is for him to drive the basket and penetrate. If he losses the ball a couple of times doing this, I can leave with it. But, we're lacking on people that attack the basket on a consistent basis, and I think what I hope is an improved Tony Allen can fill that role sporadically.

I really don't see any risk in keeping him, especially when he should be a bargain when the time comes.

[EJPLAYA]

I love how people prior to the season had zero expectations for Tony as he was in recovery mode, he has a down year, and suddenly he's treated as the worst player we could've possibly had. A player who was asked to handle the ball, playing out of position, and you can't give him a break when chances are the same circumstances won't happen again?

I keep asking you guys that want Tony Allen out, do you realize that we really have little ability to replace his roster spot with a more skilled or intelligent player? I think that's the portion of the argument people are having trouble with. Tony Allen should be very affordable to us, and replacing his roster spot with someone better will be very very hard. It makes zero sense to me to dump him for dumping him sake.

At the least, we can use him in some sort of trade... he has some trade value when combined with other "assets". It makes no sense to let him go for nothing.

Outstanding post, Bud.  No young player, especially one coming off major injuries, can be expected to play 25M one game at his position, 10M out of position in the next, then come back after 2-3 DNPs and play consistently well after.  I'd sure rather have him on the court instead of (for some reason) everybodys darling Pruitt.  With Tony, you know whoever he's guarding is going to have to work for his shot.  

I saw enough dumb plays from Paul and Kevin in the first half of Game 4 for 10 games.  Anybody suggesting dumping them?

I believe the window with this group has two more years left.  If Danny believes that we'll probably see Posey signed to the MLE.  I don't know that he gets more than that on the open market.

One way or the other, I think Tony gets resigned also. 

I'd argue that in 97 total minutes on the floor, you have no IDEA whether or not you'd like to see him on the floor more than TA. Here's what we do know though. TA was awful this year, and Pruitt couldn't have been worse. If TA supporters want to make the argument he should have been sat the whole year to truly heal and THEN make the decision on him next year I'd be fine with that. That's not what happened though. He eliminated any trade value, took away all his confidence in his outside shot, and prevented us from taking a look at a kid that looks to have some upside. I was a huge fan of TA's game prior to his injuries. He didn't endear himself any with his off court antics in Chicago, so I have no attachment to the guy emotionally. Because of this, he is just an employee who isn't physically capable or mentally strong enough to give us anything. Time to move on!

Just because WE don't know what we have in Pruitt, doesn't mean that the team doesn't have a good idea on what they have with Pruitt. All points towards making him our back-up PG, and he simply wasn't ready to get extended minutes at the NBA level. He needed time on the floor, so you could argue that his time was better spent getting minutes in the development league instead of wasting time on the Celtics bench where he probably wouldn't have gotten enough minutes on the floor anyways wether we were playing Tony or not.  What you would've seen was probably a healthier dose of House in back-up PG minutes, and the Pierce/Allen-Posey combo for SG and SF.

Funny how you won't give that same allowance when questioning Doc's playing time of Powe vs BBD, House vs. Sam, etc. Just when it supports one's case!

Considering that they didn't play him quite a bit in a few games in a row, and that they complained all year about not practicing enough, I'd doubt that was accurate. I think they just felt that TA would automatically be more advanced due to his time in the league and gave him the slot without really giving Pruitt much of a look. Yes the D league was probably good for him, but he could have done both. In hindsight I doubt that Doc looks back at giving TA a bunch of minutes in stretches as a big deal either way.  I do know that he and Danny both would like to know what they have a little more though.

[EJPLAYA]

I love how people prior to the season had zero expectations for Tony as he was in recovery mode, he has a down year, and suddenly he's treated as the worst player we could've possibly had. A player who was asked to handle the ball, playing out of position, and you can't give him a break when chances are the same circumstances won't happen again?

I keep asking you guys that want Tony Allen out, do you realize that we really have little ability to replace his roster spot with a more skilled or intelligent player? I think that's the portion of the argument people are having trouble with. Tony Allen should be very affordable to us, and replacing his roster spot with someone better will be very very hard. It makes zero sense to me to dump him for dumping him sake.

At the least, we can use him in some sort of trade... he has some trade value when combined with other "assets". It makes no sense to let him go for nothing.

Unless he is going to be named our new backup center, ball handling skills are needed in playing the 2 as well. That game clinching lefty layup by Ray demonstrates that pretty clearly. If that was TA he would have charged the guy and we might have had a different result. It is also pretty important to be able to shoot the ball at the 2. Considering he hasn't hit a 3 pointer since February I think that might be a little bit of an issue, since he can't create his own shot off the dribble. I am saddened by the fact that the guys injuries have left an explosive jumper and quick defender without the ability to do that any longer, but it doesn't change the fact that he isn't that same guy.

I am pretty affordable as well, but I doubt that I should be sitting there on the bench. The value to us in getting rid of him is to the ability to develop a young player or bring in a contributing veteran. All those minutes this year from TA, 1378 of them, could have been given to Pruitt. Then right now we'd know what we had in the kid vs. going into year 2 with a question mark.

Yet his turnover rate more than doubled when he played PG instead of SG. I could care less if he shoots the ball well or not. All I'm looking from Tony Allen is for him to drive the basket and penetrate. If he losses the ball a couple of times doing this, I can leave with it. But, we're lacking on people that attack the basket on a consistent basis, and I think what I hope is an improved Tony Allen can fill that role sporadically.

Only because when HE wasn't the one at PG the PG was smart enough not to give him the ball...

Why would you take a hobbled SG that can't dribble and can't shoot that is as good as he will ever be over someone with that same skill set but upside?!

[BudweiserCeltic]

Funny how you won't give that same allowance when questioning Doc's playing time of Powe vs BBD, House vs. Sam, etc. Just when it supports one's case!

Can you be more specific, not entirely sure what you're reffering to? I haven't been one to question his playing time for them.

[NicaraguanFan]

I think management should be "creative" in this situation. They can offer something less than MLE but appealing enough to James.

NF.

[dark_lord]

personally, i dont give a rats behind about all this stuff right now.  im too focussed on the finals.  i recognize its importance for next season and the future of our team, but we are on the verge of something too special to be distracted by the business aspect of the team.

[BudweiserCeltic]

personally, i dont give a rats behind about all this stuff right now.  im too focussed on the finals.  i recognize its importance for next season and the future of our team, but we are on the verge of something too special to be distracted by the business aspect of the team.

We can afford to be distracted... it's the team that needs to keep the focus 

[wahz]

I am pretty saddened by this development with Posey, both coming at this time and with the majority feeling its ok for us to lose Posey. I sure don't think its ok to lose Posey. I think you damage the heart of the team losing James. Imho, he was the 5th most important player this year, just after Rajon and just before Perk. Regardless, anyone who has gone to a few games and knows the pregame drill has to believe you don't want to lose a guy like that, let alone to see his game fits his demeanor. And I think you don't want to lose House either. Trying to replace Posey for the same amount of money and having an equal fit?? That is not a chance I would want to take.

[dark_lord]

personally, i dont give a rats behind about all this stuff right now.  im too focussed on the finals.  i recognize its importance for next season and the future of our team, but we are on the verge of something too special to be distracted by the business aspect of the team.

We can afford to be distracted... it's the team that needs to keep the focus 

i guess we have different mindsets then.  personally, i want this title very badly and want to enjoy every moment of it with no distractions.

[Casperian]

The only way I can see for us to keep Posey is by offering him a $25M/5 years contract using the non-bird exception. That would allow us to use the MLE on a backup center and a backup pg. But I don't know if the ownership buys this, and I can't blame them if they don't. We can't afford to spend the full-MLE in Posey (unless there are a couple of good veterans willing to play for the min a la PJ Brown and we use the LLE to resign House). 

You want to give a five year $25 million contract to a 32 year old player who LeBron James and Kobe Bryant have already proven has lost the speed on his first step and whom you can exploit if you are young and have that quick first step speed and agility.

I wouldn't. That's just not smart business in my book. 2-3 years into that contract when SFs league wide are starting to blow by James, that contract is going tobe an albatross considering the Celtics will probably be over the luxury tax threshold.

I think giving Posey such a contract is smart business, in the greater scheme of things.
This team only has a 2-3 year window. I rather regret a big contract in 3 years than to regret not signing him in next year`s playoffs.

Posey has been huge for us the whole season. I`m not sure that there`s a player with a similar impact available.

He is a very important piece in our Championship puzzle, how anyone can say his contract would be an albatross is beyond me.

Who cares if we have to pay him one year extra(except for Wyc^^)? The business decisions of the next years should have nothing to do with long-term concerns. They should be all about winning Championships.

Resign Posey, and bye bye Tony.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The only way I can see for us to keep Posey is by offering him a $25M/5 years contract using the non-bird exception. That would allow us to use the MLE on a backup center and a backup pg. But I don't know if the ownership buys this, and I can't blame them if they don't. We can't afford to spend the full-MLE in Posey (unless there are a couple of good veterans willing to play for the min a la PJ Brown and we use the LLE to resign House). 

You want to give a five year $25 million contract to a 32 year old player who LeBron James and Kobe Bryant have already proven has lost the speed on his first step and whom you can exploit if you are young and have that quick first step speed and agility.

I wouldn't. That's just not smart business in my book. 2-3 years into that contract when SFs league wide are starting to blow by James, that contract is going tobe an albatross considering the Celtics will probably be over the luxury tax threshold.

I think giving Posey such a contract is smart business, in the greater scheme of things.
This team only has a 2-3 year window. I rather regret a big contract in 3 years than to regret not signing him in next year`s playoffs.

Posey has been huge for us the whole season. I`m not sure that there`s a player with a similar impact available.

He is a very important piece in our Championship puzzle, how anyone can say his contract would be an albatross is beyond me.

Who cares if we have to pay him one year extra(except for Wyc^^)? The business decisions of the next years should have nothing to do with long-term concerns. They should be all about winning Championships.

Resign Posey, and bye bye Tony.

I'm pretty much with you Casperian, except for the Tony thing at the end. I'm more worried about what signing Posey will do to the prospect of shaping our roster next year, than long-term implications.

I really don't know if blowing the whole MLE on him is the smart thing to do, that's the only thing I'm worried about, but not terribly concerned. But as far as paying him a ton of money for the coming years should really be a non-issue, except for the owners' money.

[CoachBo]

There just isn't any room for doubt here.

Posey stays, and if we need to cut back Tony goes.

[BudweiserCeltic]

There just isn't any room for doubt here.

Posey stays, and if we need to cut back Tony goes.

The difference is that keeping Tony doesn't affect much in our ability to sign other players. So the need to cut back doesn't really concern Tony's situation. The only thing that it concerns is Wyc's willingness to spend, and that's another different issue. But as far as resources to sign other players, Tony is of no consequence.

Roster spots? We'll have plenty of them.

And precisely who do you guys have in mind that we'll be able to sign with our resources that will be a better fit than Tony Allen? I really can't come up with any. And if there was someone, we should still have plenty of roster spots available for him.