Robert Horry's Foul: Whats wrong with basketball or what used to be right?

[BballTim]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? or at least made a sub with a wink and a smirk to horry? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

  I don't think that there was any need to call a play, because such opportunities happen frequently during the game. Why do you think Horry picked him and leaned into it like that?

[Who]

Am I the only one who loves hard fouls? Horry saw a chance during the course of play to deliver some pain in a way that couldn't be considered anything more than a venial sin. He took it, if Perkins or Garnett saw a way to get ahead in an elimination game and didn't take it I'd be disappointed.

I'm right with you IP!

That was just "hey I'm here, and this is going to be tough" foul.

[crownsy]

there was no switch on that play by the way. West was guarding Horry. Horry saw West go to trap Parker i think. so Horry was free and knew West was headed right towards him with his back exposed.

it was Ginobili actually..

leaving your man to double someone is a switch, you switched to the other man.

and again, im not arguing it was a hard foul, but im just not buying this vast thoery that A) pop put him in the game with a wink and a nod "go hurt david west, muhahahah" B) off a switch, horry hatches his master scheme, and sets his feet in such a way to make sure he can hit west in the lower back C) the crowd is even in on it!

sorry, hard playoff foul, being blown out of proportion because people hate the spurs.

[winsomme]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

Am I the only one who loves hard fouls? Horry saw a chance during the course of play to deliver some pain in a way that couldn't be considered anything more than a venial sin. He took it, if Perkins or Garnett saw a way to get ahead in an elimination game and didn't take it I'd be disappointed.

i don't have a problem with hard fouls. i don't like seeing people getting injured either.

but my biggest problem is the inconsistency and not knowing how these things should be handled.

in the old days, these attempts to hurt players were avoided because if Horry took out West back in the day, then Parker or Ginobili would get body slammed on their next drive.

so a player like Horry would not be so free to take a shot at West unless he was comfortable losing Parker in short order...

now, if the Hornets go to take out Parker, it will be a fire storm with suspensions etc, etc...

[crownsy]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? or at least made a sub with a wink and a smirk to horry? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

  I don't think that there was any need to call a play, because such opportunities happen frequently during the game. Why do you think Horry picked him and leaned into it like that?

because he wanted to foul him hard, i've never argued it wasen't a hard playoff foul.

but even if you don't think there was a play, you think pop is a dirty coach by your logic here, either that or you think horry is a menace who hatched this plan and convinced pop to sub him in to go after david west.

Either one is an opinion i think is influenced by hatred of the spurs, not the facts. It was a hard foul, it sucks the guy got hurt, but thems the breaks.

[winsomme]

there was no switch on that play by the way. West was guarding Horry. Horry saw West go to trap Parker i think. so Horry was free and knew West was headed right towards him with his back exposed.

it was Ginobili actually..

leaving your man to double someone is a switch, you switched to the other man.

and again, im not arguing it was a hard foul, but im just not buying this vast thoery that A) pop put him in the game with a wink and a nod "go hurt david west, muhahahah" B) off a switch, horry hatches his master scheme, and sets his feet in such a way to make sure he can hit west in the lower back C) the crowd is even in on it!

sorry, hard playoff foul, being blown out of proportion because people hate the spurs.

the point i'm making is the West was guarding Horry. so Horry knew right where West was and he saw him coming at him blindly.

he had the shot so he took it.....

it doesn't have to be a scheme hatched at half time to take West out in order for there be an intent on Horry's part.

[winsomme]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? or at least made a sub with a wink and a smirk to horry? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

  I don't think that there was any need to call a play, because such opportunities happen frequently during the game. Why do you think Horry picked him and leaned into it like that?

because he wanted to foul him hard, i've never argued it wasen't a hard playoff foul.

but even if you don't think there was a play, you think pop is a dirty coach by your logic here, either that or you think horry is a menace who hatched this plan and convinced pop to sub him in to go after david west.

Either one is an opinion i think is influenced by hatred of the spurs, not the facts. It was a hard foul, it sucks the guy got hurt, but thems the breaks.

the facts are that Horry has a history of doing this. West was guarding him. West killed the Hornets in game 5. and he already had a bad back.

and their own fans celebrated what everybody saw to be the case.

being okay with it - like Marc Jackson was -  is a lot different than saying that it was a total coincidence..

[indeedproceed]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? or at least made a sub with a wink and a smirk to horry? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

  I don't think that there was any need to call a play, because such opportunities happen frequently during the game. Why do you think Horry picked him and leaned into it like that?

I think he picked West to gain separation for Manu. He leaned in to blindside him and let him know "Hey friend, I did that. Watch ya back."(pun intended)

[crownsy]

i still dont get why the fans is supposed to make me think diffrent, but somehow its ok we did the exact same thing on the zaza foul, but thats diffrent.

ans his "history" of doing this is nash. thats it. other than that, horry was never known for being a hachet man. bowen is, but hory isn't.

plenty of guys have done stupid thing once, that doesn't mean the next time is the same thing. by that logic, horford is a hacet man for the rest of his career, he's gotten several flagrants, willams will be if he ever does it again, most of the pistons are dirty, ect, ect.

[fairweatherfan]

I like hard fouls and think the NBA calls too many flagrants these days (or makes them too severe - Turiaf's ejection in Game 4 of the Lakers series should have been a Flagrant 1 I thought, not a 2 and an ejection) but this is the equivalent of kicking a guy in an injured ankle. 

Horry obviously saw an opportunity there, he clasped his hands together and leaned in to drive his elbow into West's lower back as he jumped up to deflect a pass.  Horry has been in the league long enough, and has had enough incidents to know EXACTLY what he was doing.  A hard foul, to me, is leveling a guy going up for a shot or screening a guy to the floor like KG did.  I like hard fouls, and think they have a place in the game that has been unfairly restricted.  Deliberately targeting an injured area on an opposing player who has been killing you, on the other hand, is just dirty. 

And yes, the Spurs thing does come into play - they are the only team I can think of with multiple instances of deliberately trying to injure players (see Bowen kicking Stoudemire's heel out from under him on a dunk attempt, or the dozens of times he deliberately puts his foot under a descending jump shooter's to try and twist their ankle, or Horry against Nash last year, or Bowen kneeing Nash in the groin, etc, etc, ad infinitum).  This makes this incident seem much less ambiguous to me, and I think I'm justified in doing so.  This is the sort of stuff the NBA needs to crack down on, in my opinion, not just the heavy contact type of fouls.  And the Spurs fans applauding causing an injury is just classless - I'd like to think Boston fans would not do the same but I might well be wrong (might depend on the player).  To everyone saying this is a legit play or unintentional, please remember this if we play them in the Finals and Pierce just "happens" to get repeatedly hit in the back, or Bowen "accidentally" stands under Ray's feet on the way down 5 times a game.

PS.  IndeedProceed, your picture link is 404'ed for me, can you post another?

[Redz]

I don't have a problem with a hard foul (especially in a playoff game), but it's definitely not "sportsman-like".  Ergo, it's dirty.  A little bit of dirt, isn't so bad though, no.  Shoot, reminder Larry nudging (who was it again?) out of bounds with his rear end?

One of my all time favorite plays I ever made in the heat of competition was a play exactly like Horry's.  I totally leveled a guy on a pick, and yes, dropped my shoulder just a touch.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Eh, unfortunately all this Horry chat in the media and the webs is overshadowing the somewhat shadey calls that lead to 4 personals each on Paul and West in that third quarter. There really does have to come a point when the blatant flopping is not rewarded.

 The 3rd on Paul was somewhat there, though that goes uncalled quite often, especially in the playoffs, but the 4th was absurd. The charge Duncan took was also a little overdone. I hate officiating that rewards a defensive player, especially one of the size and skill as Duncan, not attempting to make a play on the ball to defend their basket but instead only playing for a charge.

[indeedproceed]

http://go2page3.blogspot.com/2008/05/ingredients-find-opposing-player-not.html

[rathcor]

i still dont get why the fans is supposed to make me think diffrent, but somehow its ok we did the exact same thing on the zaza foul, but thats diffrent.

ans his "history" of doing this is nash. thats it. other than that, horry was never known for being a hachet man. bowen is, but hory isn't.

plenty of guys have done stupid thing once, that doesn't mean the next time is the same thing. by that logic, horford is a hacet man for the rest of his career, he's gotten several flagrants, willams will be if he ever does it again, most of the pistons are dirty, ect, ect.

i totally agree. Horry has 2 questionable fouls in his 15 years in the league and now you are saying he has a history of it.  If this is the case then Posey has a much worse history with his fouls on the bulls

[fairweatherfan]

http://go2page3.blogspot.com/2008/05/ingredients-find-opposing-player-not.html

Thanks, I appreciate it...

PS I think the silver lining to all this is that we finally know the Spurs fans can cheer for something without having to be cued by Jock Jams 37 or whatever the hell it is they play at top volume 46 of the 48 minutes every game.