Robert Horry's Foul: Whats wrong with basketball or what used to be right?

[winsomme]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

bracing yourself is part of setting a pick.

lowering your shoulder and leaning in to hit a known injured area of a player that basically shot your team out of the last game is an entirely different story.

Horry targeted Nash last year who killed them and he targeted West this year...

the crowd chanted his name after the play for gosh sakes...

[Redz]

Either one would have been a legal pick if they hadn't lowered their shoulders and pushed in.  KG's, if anything, lacked any attempt at disguise, where at least Horry was trying to just nudge in a little something extra.  Either way, they're both illegal.  A hard pick is totally legal, but once you lower the shoulder it's a dirty play - plain and simple.

[crownsy]

I think if we're really trying to get a definitive answer, you have to listen closely to what Mark Jackson said,

"I know a whole bunch of old school guys jumping up and down chanting Robert Horry's name"

and then for the clincher...

"A back screen for a guy who's had back problems"  "a good winning play by Robert Horry". 

Not a big fan of Mark Jackson but he gave us the answer on a silver platter. 

right, because annoucners are always a fount of wisdom. according to stockton, brandon haywood plays for the celtics. I don't see how a color commentators opnion is the gospel.

[BballTim]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

  I think that the point of the pick was to take a shot at West, who had a bad back. I'm not going to argue whether it was cheap or dirty, but I don't think that pick happens if West was healthy. I'd really question the wisdom of having him in that game with a bad back and a 20 point deficit in the 4th quarter.

[rathcor]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

bracing yourself is part of setting a pick.

lowering your shoulder and leaning in to hit a known injured area of a player that basically shot your team out of the last game is an entirely different story.

Horry targeted Nash last year who killed them and he targeted West this year...

the crowd chanted his name after the play for gosh sakes...

who cares if the crowd chanted his name afterwards.  it has no bearing on the pick.  We also chanted kg's name after the pick on Zaza.

[crownsy]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

bracing yourself is part of setting a pick.

lowering your shoulder and leaning in to hit a known injured area of a player that basically shot your team out of the last game is an entirely different story.

Horry targeted Nash last year who killed them and he targeted West this year...

the crowd chanted his name after the play for gosh sakes...

what does san antonio's crowd being classless have to do with robert horry and david west in the slightest? In two posts you've brought up thier reaction as if it proves something. its not like  the jumbo tron put up "shhh...don't tell anyone but we really ment to hurt west on purpose, how bout a chant for rob!"

and yes, he did target nash, and there was clearly a lead up to it, unlike here where he turned and put a lick on the first guy he saw. theres no denying he was setting a hard pick, but to jump to "a calculated plot by the evil genious robert horry!" amazes me.


the garden crowd has done plenty i'm not proud of (mvp chants for a certain player), it doesn't mean they have some kind of insight on the players on the court

if you watch that play, horry isnt even looking at him until he turns around and sets the pick. i know rob is a great athlete, which means he has great reaction time, but your telling me in at best a second he A)decided he wanted to take west out B) worked out a plan to throw an elbow to a specfic spot C) had enough time left over to set himself and target an exact spot.

I'm not saying he wasen't trying to send a message to whatever hornets player came near him, he probley was, but these grassy gnoll level theories of the incident are getting a little hard to follow.

[winsomme]

I think if we're really trying to get a definitive answer, you have to listen closely to what Mark Jackson said,

"I know a whole bunch of old school guys jumping up and down chanting Robert Horry's name"

and then for the clincher...

"A back screen for a guy who's had back problems"  "a good winning play by Robert Horry". 

Not a big fan of Mark Jackson but he gave us the answer on a silver platter. 

right, because annoucners are always a fount of wisdom. according to stockton, brandon haywood plays for the celtics. I don't see how a color commentators opnion is the gospel.

going right after a guys injured area is old-school basketball. i don't deny that. and i love old school ball as much as the next fan, but let's not pretend that there was no intent of Horry's part.

the guy knows exactly what he is doing out there.

i'm sure Tommy would say if that happened to a Cs guy that in his day, the next time Parker or Ginobili came in the lane with their fancy drives, they'd be eatin' pine.....

[Big Ticket]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but it was known that West had a pretty tender lower back as it is.  Horry clearly leaned into the pick with his arms interlocked, and planted one right into West's lower back.

It was a dirty play for that reason.  I have little doubt that Horry knew West was playing through pain and had every intention to increase that pain.

[BballTim]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

[winsomme]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

bracing yourself is part of setting a pick.

lowering your shoulder and leaning in to hit a known injured area of a player that basically shot your team out of the last game is an entirely different story.

Horry targeted Nash last year who killed them and he targeted West this year...

the crowd chanted his name after the play for gosh sakes...

who cares if the crowd chanted his name afterwards.  it has no bearing on the pick.  We also chanted kg's name after the pick on Zaza.

there are a couple of thing to distinguish here.

first, the crowd chanting shows that everybody in that stadium knew exactly what happened and what Horry is all about as a player.

second Zaza got laid out because he had been giving hard fouls all series long. West got laid out because he was unstoppable in game 5 and Horry was trying to take him out for game 7.

[crownsy]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? or at least made a sub with a wink and a smirk to horry? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

[crownsy]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

bracing yourself is part of setting a pick.

lowering your shoulder and leaning in to hit a known injured area of a player that basically shot your team out of the last game is an entirely different story.

Horry targeted Nash last year who killed them and he targeted West this year...

the crowd chanted his name after the play for gosh sakes...

who cares if the crowd chanted his name afterwards.  it has no bearing on the pick.  We also chanted kg's name after the pick on Zaza.

there are a couple of thing to distinguish here.

first, the crowd chanting shows that everybody in that stadium knew exactly what happened and what Horry is all about as a player.

second Zaza got laid out because he had been giving hard fouls all series long. West got laid out because he was unstoppable in game 5 and Horry was trying to take him out for game 7.

thats your opinion, and your welcome to it, but i think its a huge stretch. plus, thats pretty iffy logic to dismiss what the crowd did in our arena as diffrent from the SA crowd don't you think? bit of a semantics argument "oh it was cool when we did it, because the guy was a bum...."

again, i think the SA hate is getting out of control in this thread.

[winsomme]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

i think Horry has a history of doing this. he did it again. and then everybody celebrated it.

[winsomme]

there was no switch on that play by the way. West was guarding Horry. Horry saw West go to trap Parker i think. so Horry was free and knew West was headed right towards him with his back exposed.

it was Ginobili actually..

[indeedproceed]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

  More likely, Horry was in the game with the knowledge that West had a bad back and was looking for an opportunity to get in a shot.

so then you do think pop called a play to injure an opposing player? i think the SA hate factor is playing into peoples perceptions of this play a bit.

Am I the only one who loves hard fouls? Horry saw a chance during the course of play to deliver some pain in a way that couldn't be considered anything more than a venial sin. He took it, if Perkins or Garnett saw a way to get ahead in an elimination game and didn't take it I'd be disappointed.