Robert Horry's Foul: Whats wrong with basketball or what used to be right?

[indeedproceed]

First off: the video (Via BDL on Yahoo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUh1kJLrYu8&e

Ok:
 
Things that are up in the air (besides David West):

1) Was it a clean pick?
2) Was it meant to send a message?
3) Was it meant to just be a hard foul to send a message or did Robert Horry pick out a guy with a bad back and try to aggravate it, clean or not?

1) I think the pick was clean. Horry wasn't moving, he kind of leaned into it but David West and his teammates have a responsibility to each other and themselves to not let play lay blindside picks on them. Someone should've called it out and West should've known where his man went. It wasn't like Horry was in motion when West got to him, he just wasn't going to drop to the floor and hope for the foul on West. West jumped so the contact was amplified but Horry didn't devise that plan.

2) Ummm....maybe. Horry definitely leaned into that pick, he could've just as easily flopped and tried to draw the foul on West but he chose to stick him.

3) People are saying Horry targeted West. Robert Horry may have made a physical play at home in the 4th to send a message but he wasn't trying to hurt anyone. West jumped to try and defend Manu's pass, and Horry caught him mid-air, really hurting West. Horry didn't plan that and I don't think he laid it on any more thick once he was in the air. Was Horry aware West's back was messed up? Yes. Did he lay a blindside pick on West because he knew it would aggravate his back?....maybe.

Hows the public feel?

[indeedproceed]

Also let me add I love this stuff. The NBA is ridiculous now with the touch fouls and this is a playground pick in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. Robert Horry isn't a bad guy for what he did to David West..David Stern is a bad guy for what he did to playoff basketball

[Who]

Smart play. Good play.

Foul call could've been a non-call just as easily

[crownsy]

it was a clean pick, the only reason this story is getting legs is because, to be fair, he clearly head hunted nash last year.

He's got a rep now, so any hard foul will be "is horry a hachet man for the spurs?!?!"

which is unfounded, but an angle the media can push to exiting up the spurs. contrived contreversy sells papers just as well as real contrevirsy.

[Redz]

1) It wasn't a clean pick at all.  He lowered his shoulder and threw it forward into West as contact was made (a slightly tamer version of KG's Game 7 pick on Zaza).

2) Yes (see KG pick above - though the timing of it within the game/series was more of a big deal...plus West has been burning them badly, Zaza not so much)

3) Not sure the distinction between this question and the last, but I think it was an effort to give a hard foul/message and not necessarily an attemot to hurt his bad back,.

[indeedproceed]

Poll

[Roy Hobbs]

I think it was a foul, since he lowered his shoulder / elbow.  It wasn't dirty, however, and I don't think there was an intent to injure.

[the_Bird]

It was a foul, but barely.  Certainly didn't look like there was any intention of injuring him.  West isn't wearing a red "no contact" jersey out there; if he's going to get hurt off a play like that, he was going to get hurt before very long anyway.  I mean, if you aren't allowed to even set a pick.... 

Injuries happen, they suck, but that doesn't mean that the play that caused the injury was dirty. 

Now, Chris Paul punching that dude in the junk a few years back...   THAT's a dirty play!

[indeedproceed]

http://bp0.blogger.com/_aZqvoaZKFV4/SC20ezwyUUI/AAAAAAAAAJY/e89HWpTLMcM/s1600/IMAGE_060.jpg

Strategery.

[jay_jay54]

clean pick,wasn't any intent to injury...obvious,it didn't take much to aggrevate what already was a bad back,probably should had set that game out,in the first place.If you play injured,get reinjured,you only prolonging the healing.

[winsomme]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

[crownsy]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

i don't see it, sorry. He set a pick, big whoop. The only way you will convince me that was a targeted "im here to take D west out" move is if pop on the sidelines liteeraly called a play like the evil coach in the mighty ducks.

"alright boys, now heres what were gonna do, you switch past rob once west is covering you, and rob? you set the pick, and make sure you get the small of his back! Team injury play on 3!"

i just don't see it

[indeedproceed]

i think it is pretty clear that there was intent to injure.

the crowd reaction pretty much confirms it by chanting his name after knocking West out of the game with the injury.

add in Horry's track record, and there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

that said, it was a basketball play - although a foul -  and not a punch or something like that.

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Horry leaned in to hit West right in his lower back where his injury was.

SA needs to go down. they are the biggest flop-fest crybabies in the history of the NBA.

but i would love for it to be at the hands of the Cs....

so you buy that on a defensive switch with a guy rolling, in about 5 tenths of a second, horry went "oh man, West! now, he has a lower back injury, i better target that exact area to injure him!"

i don't see it, sorry. He set a pick, big whoop. The only way you will convince me that was a targeted "im here to take D west out" move is if pop on the sidelines liteeraly called a play like the evil coach in the mighty ducks.

"alright boys, now heres what were gonna do, you switch past rob once west is covering you, and rob? you set the pick, and make sure you get the small of his back! Team injury play on 3!"

i just don't see it

I think intent to put a hurting (I'd hate to say injury) is impossible to prove, but I can't discount it, look at the picture in the link I posted above of Horry leaning in and throwin the elbow right into the small

[Roy Hobbs]

but there was also a difference in what Horry did and what KG did to Zaza. the difference being that KG set a legal pick and Horry did not.

Both KG and Horry braced themselves for contact; both got their shoulders / elbows up a bit.  Horry's was a little more clear, but both were in the same ballpark.

I agree with crownsy's analysis regarding the likelihood of an intent to injure.

[X Man]

I think if we're really trying to get a definitive answer, you have to listen closely to what Mark Jackson said,

"I know a whole bunch of old school guys jumping up and down chanting Robert Horry's name"

and then for the clincher...

"A back screen for a guy who's had back problems"  "a good winning play by Robert Horry". 

Not a big fan of Mark Jackson but he gave us the answer on a silver platter.