Proposed Jaylen Brown Trade Ideas

[Phantom255x]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uj7wak/marks_there_is_a_spirited_debate_going_on_in/

I'm sorry but it's becoming clear Bobby Marks has some sort of agenda and/or sour grapes now

[Marks] ?There is a spirited debate going on in front offices right now regarding Jaylen Brown. There's on one side the analytics debate and the analytics do not view Brown as a high-level player. A negative net rating over the last four years in Boston, minus 10 when he was on the court this year.?

[celticinorlando]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uj7wak/marks_there_is_a_spirited_debate_going_on_in/

I'm sorry but it's becoming clear Bobby Marks has some sort of agenda and/or sour grapes now

[Marks] ?There is a spirited debate going on in front offices right now regarding Jaylen Brown. There's on one side the analytics debate and the analytics do not view Brown as a high-level player. A negative net rating over the last four years in Boston, minus 10 when he was on the court this year.?

Bobby was in the front office for the Nets when Danny fleeced them. He also was very vocal wanting Giannis in Miami. He is a tool.

[Who]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uj7wak/marks_there_is_a_spirited_debate_going_on_in/

I'm sorry but it's becoming clear Bobby Marks has some sort of agenda and/or sour grapes now

[Marks] ?There is a spirited debate going on in front offices right now regarding Jaylen Brown. There's on one side the analytics debate and the analytics do not view Brown as a high-level player. A negative net rating over the last four years in Boston, minus 10 when he was on the court this year.?

The quote was part of a larger point saying how he disagreed entirely with this POV. That he regarded Jaylen as a top 10 player in the league. That is he is an "eye test" guy. That he doesn't put weight into those essentially nonsense analytical arguments. He was on a panel with 2 others. They agreed with him. Chiney was one of the 2 and she said she is an analytical person but putting weight in those statistics is nonsense.

I shared the ESPN clip on one of the Jaylen threads because it was actually a very good segment. Rare for ESPN. Quality discussion and points being made. Not just people shouting over each other.

-------------

I feel bad for Bobby Marks. He is getting hammered by so many people. He did nothing wrong. He quoted that stat above and said Jaylen had bad analytics which he does. And he made a 2nd one where he said one analytical guy ranked him as the 7th best player on the Celtics which so absurd you have to share it. It was fun.

All the time Bobby Marks was defending Jaylen. Saying what a great player he was and how these analysts are nuts.

Yet he is the one getting crucified.

[celticinorlando]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uj7wak/marks_there_is_a_spirited_debate_going_on_in/

I'm sorry but it's becoming clear Bobby Marks has some sort of agenda and/or sour grapes now

[Marks] ?There is a spirited debate going on in front offices right now regarding Jaylen Brown. There's on one side the analytics debate and the analytics do not view Brown as a high-level player. A negative net rating over the last four years in Boston, minus 10 when he was on the court this year.?

The quote was part of a larger point saying how he disagreed entirely with this POV. That he regarded Jaylen as a top 10 player in the league. That is he is an "eye test" guy. That he doesn't put weight into those essentially nonsense analytical arguments. He was on a panel with 2 others. They agreed with him. Chiney was one of the 2 and she said she is an analytical person but putting weight in those statistics is nonsense.

I shared the ESPN clip on one of the Jaylen threads because it was actually a very good segment. Rare for ESPN. Quality discussion and points being made. Not just people shouting over each other.

-------------

I feel bad for Bobby Marks. He is getting hammered by so many people. He did nothing wrong. He quoted that stat above and said Jaylen had bad analytics which he does. And he made a 2nd one where he said one analytical guy ranked him as the 7th best player on the Celtics which so absurd you have to share it. It was fun.

All the time Bobby Marks was defending Jaylen. Saying what a great player he was and how these analysts are nuts.

Yet he is the one getting crucified.

Problem is Bobby continues to bring this narrative up. He went on Sirrus XM and said. Went on the morning shows and brought it up and now he has done it again.

He continues to say it over and over despite him being "an eye test guy". Stop repeating this lie on every platform even tho you "don't agree with it".

[Who]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uj7wak/marks_there_is_a_spirited_debate_going_on_in/

I'm sorry but it's becoming clear Bobby Marks has some sort of agenda and/or sour grapes now

[Marks] ?There is a spirited debate going on in front offices right now regarding Jaylen Brown. There's on one side the analytics debate and the analytics do not view Brown as a high-level player. A negative net rating over the last four years in Boston, minus 10 when he was on the court this year.?

The quote was part of a larger point saying how he disagreed entirely with this POV. That he regarded Jaylen as a top 10 player in the league. That is he is an "eye test" guy. That he doesn't put weight into those essentially nonsense analytical arguments. He was on a panel with 2 others. They agreed with him. Chiney was one of the 2 and she said she is an analytical person but putting weight in those statistics is nonsense.

I shared the ESPN clip on one of the Jaylen threads because it was actually a very good segment. Rare for ESPN. Quality discussion and points being made. Not just people shouting over each other.

-------------

I feel bad for Bobby Marks. He is getting hammered by so many people. He did nothing wrong. He quoted that stat above and said Jaylen had bad analytics which he does. And he made a 2nd one where he said one analytical guy ranked him as the 7th best player on the Celtics which so absurd you have to share it. It was fun.

All the time Bobby Marks was defending Jaylen. Saying what a great player he was and how these analysts are nuts.

Yet he is the one getting crucified.

Problem is Bobby continues to bring this narrative up. He went on Sirrus XM and said. Went on the morning shows and brought it up and now he has done it again.

He continues to say it over and over despite him being "an eye test guy". Stop repeating this lie on every platform even tho you "don't agree with it".

Because everybody is attacking for him --- wrongly believing that this was his opinion. That he thought this. That he doesn't rate Jaylen.

[slightly biased bias fan]

I was screaming it at the time, that Stevens should have traded Brown (and Tatum) last season. Last season was the Celtics chance at a quick rebuild.

The 2025 & 2026 draft classes were stacked. You trade Brown in 2025 for draft capital, the Celtics would then have a great shot at a high draft pick in 2026.

Multiple draft experts have stated the current talent pool in 2027 is one of the worst in decades & 2028 looks rather poor too. Tatum is turning 29 in October & White is 32 in a few days. If the Celtics cannot get an elite level talent in return for Brown, it is going to be another wasted season for the team & their careers.

[Who]

Brian Windhorst on the Rich Eisen show talking about BOS trying to trade Jaylen Green:

"They're offering him everywhere, Rich. He's, I mean I am not in the Celtics offices so I can't say for sure, but I've heard the Celtics attached to - I am not even going to put a number on it because then I would have to defend that number - but many, many teams".

[Who]

This graphic is ugly for Jaylen ... the analysts fight back!

Jeremias Engelmann
@JerryEngelmann

No player in the NBA lowers the points that his teammates score, while on the court with him, more than Jaylen Brown. He lops off 4 points, per 100, from each of the 4 teammates that share the court with him

https://x.com/JerryEngelmann/status/2071115105685905423

[celticinorlando]

Feels like this was always a 2 year retool and 2027 was the time they could really build it back. I think Brad wants Brown's contract off the books for then and wants to have picks to use. He knows the longer he keeps him the less value he has.

Do not think they want to be a 2 guy super max team...and they can't to be honest.

[Moranis]

This graphic is ugly for Jaylen ... the analysts fight back!

Jeremias Engelmann
@JerryEngelmann

No player in the NBA lowers the points that his teammates score, while on the court with him, more than Jaylen Brown. He lops off 4 points, per 100, from each of the 4 teammates that share the court with him

https://x.com/JerryEngelmann/status/2071115105685905423

It matches what I've been saying for years.  Jaylen just doesn't play a style of basketball that fits with this team.  The team has been better with him on the bench for years.  Even this year, without Tatum, that held.  Brown is an inefficient chucker.  He plays defense, so he doesn't get grouped with players many think of like that, but that is what he is.  Boston blew it by not trading him last summer and going into full bore tank mode with Tatum out. 

[Who]

David Lee: stars tend to suppress their teammates' PPG, but they pair that scoring usage with hyper-efficiency (Giannis/prime Joel), influence high quality shots (Wemby), and/or suppress TOs (Luka). in contrast, a jump in Jaylen Brown's scoring output leads to diminishing returns for BOS👇

https://x.com/dlee4three/status/2071438646360559782

I don't know what all those stats mean. The text part of analysis is interesting.

[Celtics2021]

This graphic is ugly for Jaylen ... the analysts fight back!

Jeremias Engelmann
@JerryEngelmann

No player in the NBA lowers the points that his teammates score, while on the court with him, more than Jaylen Brown. He lops off 4 points, per 100, from each of the 4 teammates that share the court with him

https://x.com/JerryEngelmann/status/2071115105685905423

It looks ugly, but it is not saying too much.  The more points you score the less points your teammates score.  All the high scorers are negative.  It is much worse to be in the bottoms left quadrant than the bottom right quadrant.  That is where the actually bad players are.

[Atzar]

This crap is why I dislike advanced statistics as they're discussed in basketball.

Advanced statistics should break basketball players down into their many complexities.  How does this player perform in this position, this role, this set, this situation.  I suspect that's what real analysts, employed in front offices, are doing.  Instead all these public-facing stats seem to do is attempt to boil players down into a single number or talking point, and that's just not very useful at evaluating how good a player really is.  It's very good, however, at getting attention like this - which is where it makes its money to begin with.

I don't know how JB measures out in front offices.  I suspect there was a reason that the Celtics, reputedly an analytics-forward organization, gave him such a massive-usage role last season despite his poor metrics.  I also suspect there are good reasons we can't find a taker for him at our price right now.  As it is, I'm content to settle this with him like professionals before the start of next season, go to battle with him as we've done for the last decade including several deep playoff runs and a parade, and reevaluate the landscape as necessary from there.  There's no "leverage".  We get what we're looking for or we keep the second team all-NBA guy. 

[Who]

This crap is why I dislike advanced statistics as they're discussed in basketball.

Advanced statistics should break basketball players down into their many complexities.  How does this player perform in this position, this role, this set, this situation.  I suspect that's what real analysts, employed in front offices, are doing.

The stat up above about Jaylen hurting his teammate's scoring comes from Jeremias Engelmann. He worked with the Suns and with the Mavs. He works at ESPN now. He created their real plus/minus stat for them.

The second graph comes from a guy I haven't heard of before. His twitter page says he is a draft analyst. But no idea for who or what his background is.

[Celtics2021]

This crap is why I dislike advanced statistics as they're discussed in basketball.

Advanced statistics should break basketball players down into their many complexities.  How does this player perform in this position, this role, this set, this situation.  I suspect that's what real analysts, employed in front offices, are doing.

The stat up above about Jaylen hurting his teammate's scoring comes from Jeremias Engelmann. He worked with the Suns and with the Mavs. He works at ESPN now. He created their real plus/minus stat for them.

The second graph comes from a guy I haven't heard of before. His twitter page says he is a draft analyst. But no idea for who or what his background is.

That is fine and all.  And RPM has always hated Jaylen so whatever.  But truly, that scatterplot showed Jaylen was not the best, but was also not an outlier.  He was definitely near the trendline, albeit at the edge of it where there is more variance because few players score as many points per 100.  And I know at least one of those dots to the upper right of him, which is better for offense, is Luka, for whom defense is not a strength to out it mildly.  The graph did not demonstrate all that much, and only tells half the story.