Time for a change?

[Goldstar88]

Question for cap experts: Can the C's use Vucevic in any way to potentially facilitate a S&T that helps with salary matching?

Like is there a way to give up White, Hauser, 1-2 young players (Baylor and a filler piece) and Vucevic as well on a reasonable extension and send it to MIL for Giannis?

I think the iteration of White/Hauser is still not quite enough for Giannis in terms of money, unless you also add Pritchard which I don't want to do (or if you do, I'd prefer to keep Baylor then). It'd make it easier if possible, but is it possible with Vucevic? What are the cap ramifications and such

I'm not Celtics2021, and I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong. AFAIK it is doable under the CBA, but trading a newly signed player would hard cap Milwaukee at the first apron, which is the real penalty. So next season here is our cap situation:

(click to enlarge)


So as things stand we are $13m below the tax line and $21m below the first apron, with Vuc's $21m off the books. Say we re-sign Vuc for $8m and offer the following package:

White - $30.3m
Hauser - $10.8m
Baylor - $2.8m
Banton - $2.8m
Vuc - $12m (sign and trade)

TOTAL = $58.8m

Giannis = $58m

While the salaries would match, sign and trading Vuc would immediately hard cap Milwaukee at $209m which is the first apron

So adding up all the salaries, it would leave us with a roster of:

Tatum $58m
Giannis $58m
Brown $57m
Pritchard $7m
Gonzales $2.9m
Garza $2.9m
Queta $2.8m
Harper 2.5m
Walsh $2.4m
Williams $2.1m
Shulga $2.1m

11 players at $197m. So to get to 14 players we would have to sign 3 players, vet mis are $2.1m to $3m depending on years of service, because we would have $12m to spend before exceeding the first apron. And we would be over the luxury tax so we wouldn't be able to reset the repeater tax, given big spending coming the following year, we would be paying the repeater tax rate of 425%.

Also keep in mind - having zero trade flexibility with 3 top heavy contracts at $58m, then the next one is PP at $7m, then its all vet mins.

I'm trying to answer your own question without providing my own opinion on it...but I observing how Brad values flexibility, he doesn't want himself tobe hardcapped at any apron, or not have tradeable pieces to adjust the team if something happens like an injury or lack of chemistry (we all saw what Phoenix had to do to get themselves out of having a top heavy balance sheet, not to mention Morey's challenges with Philly. I think If we want Giannis the most likely, and simplest path is to trade Jaylen. Because Milwaukee are going to say, if you want Giannis give us Jaylen, we don't want White/Hauser/Baylor/Vuc/Banton, espcially if it's going to hard-cap us in what is basically a salary dump of Vuc. You want someone good you gotta give up someone good 

Thanks Oz!

[celticinorlando]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

[angryguy77]

I'm old enough to know when a  player says things like Brown, it's time to move on when you have some leverage.
Given we're still one year from going all in(If I'm understanding the cap right) then it's better to let the saying "better trade a year too early than a year too late" be the philosophy that guides Brad.

[Moranis]

I'm old enough to know when a  player says things like Brown, it's time to move on when you have some leverage.
Given we're still one year from going all in(If I'm understanding the cap right) then it's better to let the saying "better trade a year too early than a year too late" be the philosophy that guides Brad.

he is already too late. He should have done it last summer and properly tanked this year with the really good draft. 

[celticinorlando]

Brad:

"Dunks, layups, and FTs are better than 3-pointers but Celtics aren't not able to generate these."

Hmmm...I wonder who could help get you more dunks, FTS and lay ups...

[Who]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

I don't think that means anything. Tatum was out for 75-80% of the season. Of course their record against stronger teams isn't going to be good this year.

[celticinorlando]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

I don't think that means anything. Tatum was out for 75-80% of the season. Of course their record against stronger teams isn't going to be good this year.

He talked about it in depth. Added that the league this year had a lot of teams playing for draft picks and next year the league will be much better.

Sounded like he knows his team just is not good enough.

[RodyTur10]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

The things I got from this press conference, what Stevens said and how interpret this:

• When asked about Vucevic he said that he was a great lockerroom guy, professional and did his best = he'll absolutely not return
• About Queta he said that he struggled to stay on the floor, but came back stong in game 7 which he can use to build on = very unlikely to be traded, there's faith in him
• Also when asked about minutes for individual players (Hugo), he said he draws a firm line between him as a GM and coaching territory, besides the obvious ones in Jayson, Jaylen, Derrick and Payton = Pritchard is regarded as a star player
• Multiple times he addressed the issue of generating good shots as a problem of the last couple of years, including the championship year = unsatisfied with the driving and playmaking ability of the core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser
• When confronted about a lot of outside shooting, he said that a team should play to its roster strengths, that the playing style depends on that = willingness to trade for star players who would change the current playing style
  
• A lot of emphasis on our record against top teams, the amount of tanking teams and that we'll see what this team is made of next year = not impressed with the regular season record as an indicator we're close

Overall conclusion is that Stevens and his staff will definitely be looking for big moves. This is not about making some small adjustment on the back-end of the roster. No the remaining core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser of the last three years (with Holiday, Horford and Porzingis already gone) is not safe.

More to that, between the lines I heard some praise for Pritchard who's probably higher regarded internally than externally. And the criticism does not apply to Hauser, who doesn't take a lot of bad shots or is much responsible for generating shots.

So I think we can expect that at the start of the new season one or two guys of Tatum/Brown/White will be gone. Of course Stevens will not make trades just for the sake of it without realizing what we have, but he hasn't been afraid to make big decisions. And despite his clear cut conclusion that we're not close enough now, he did praise the coaching staff and the broad development of the young players and also said the focus is on winning.

[Goldstar88]

I saw a mention of Markkanen and thought I was expound on that. At first glance, it sounds like a terrible idea, but Markkanen would fit absolutely perfectly into the Celtics offense. His ability to knock down 3s at his size and just score and finish in general is tantalizing. He is not a ballhandler, but he wouldn't be expected to be one here. There are defensive issues, but him with Tatum and Queta could work on that end of the floor. He is at least athletic enough to cover ground.

The Jazz look poised to compete next year, so it may not make sense for them to move one of the only win-now players that's been on their roster for years. But for Jaylen, I think they would make an exception - especially with the Ainge connection. It would help better balance their team and it would then make sense for them to hang on to Walker Kessler with JJJ moving to PF. It would be a great defensive team.

But the Celtics don't make this trade for just Markkanen. If the Jazz get a top 4 pick or if the Celtics are interested in Ace, then I think it becomes a consideration.

The same can be said about the Wizards. They now have AD and Trae. Adding Jaylen to that team would be scary. Sarr isn't as much of a guarantee as Markkanen, but again you would be looking at adding a top 4 pick in addition, and maybe another one of their younger players.

I'm not saying I want these trades to happen, just that if we do move Jaylen that it's probably going to be more of a surprising deal. We ended up with Anfernee Simons last year for Jrue. We traded Smart for KP. And Brogdon/Williams for Jrue. Nobody was talking about these guys as possibilities.

Deals like the ones above or what Moranis has proposed with Atlanta are just as plausible imo. Unless we get Giannis, it's likely that Brad will be looking towards the future by getting younger players with possible star potential.

I?d probably do Markannen and Keyonte George for JB.
Keyonte torched the Celtics. 6?4 combo guard that averaged 24pts/6ast/4rebs with shooting splits of 46/37/89. George is only 22 as well, so he is going to continue to get better.

why would Utah do that? I don't even know if they'd trade George straight up for Brown.

Will throw in Baylor. Call it a day. Lauri and Keyonte for Baylor and Jaylen. 

JB is Danny?s guy.

[Birdman]

Team lost Al, Porzingus, Kornet & Holiday and replace them with players who has little or no experience, ppl think they gotta win a championship with that??

[slamtheking]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

The things I got from this press conference, what Stevens said and how interpret this:

• When asked about Vucevic he said that he was a great lockerroom guy, professional and did his best = he'll absolutely not return
• About Queta he said that he struggled to stay on the floor, but came back stong in game 7 which he can use to build on = very unlikely to be traded, there's faith in him

 

• Multiple times he addressed the issue of generating good shots as a problem of the last couple of years, including the championship year = unsatisfied with the driving and playmaking ability of the core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser

 

• When confronted about a lot of outside shooting, he said that a team should play to its roster strengths, that the playing style depends on that = willingness to trade for star players who would change the current playing style 
  

• A lot of emphasis on our record against top teams, the amount of tanking teams and that we'll see what this team is made of next year = not impressed with the regular season record as an indicator we're close

 

Overall conclusion is that Stevens and his staff will definitely be looking for big moves. This is not about making some small adjustment on the back-end of the roster. No the remaining core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser of the last three years (with Holiday, Horford and Porzingis already gone) is not safe.

More to that, between the lines I heard some praise for Pritchard who's probably higher regarded internally than externally. And the criticism does not apply to Hauser, who doesn't take a lot of bad shots or is much responsible for generating shots.

So I think we can expect that at the start of the new season one or two guys of Tatum/Brown/White will be gone. Of course Stevens will not make trades just for the sake of it without realizing what we have, but he hasn't been afraid to make big decisions. And despite his clear cut conclusion that we're not close enough now, he did praise the coaching staff and the broad development of the young players and also said the focus is on winning.

• When asked about Vucevic he said that he was a great lockerroom guy, professional and did his best = he'll absolutely not return

if that's the case, won't miss him.  team needs another center that can defend without fouling

• About Queta he said that he struggled to stay on the floor, but came back stong in game 7 which he can use to build on = very unlikely to be traded, there's faith in him

  good player on a cheap contract that figures to improve. 

• Multiple times he addressed the issue of generating good shots as a problem of the last couple of years, including the championship year = unsatisfied with the driving and playmaking ability of the core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser

this has been a problem with the team not having a real playmaker.  too much reliance on non-natural playmakers having to set up other players

• When confronted about a lot of outside shooting, he said that a team should play to its roster strengths, that the playing style depends on that = willingness to trade for star players who would change the current playing style
  

always play to the players' strengths, just common sense.  doesn't necessarily equate to a trade though.

• A lot of emphasis on our record against top teams, the amount of tanking teams and that we'll see what this team is made of next year = not impressed with the regular season record as an indicator we're close

it was a surprising regular season but playoffs are what matter.  there were a number of bad teams but the East had a lot with winning records.

[jambr380]

Really interesting presser from Brad. Brutally honest.

I expected him to say they are close, he likes his team...the whole stay the course but he did not. Said Boston struggles to generate good looks on offense.

He was the opposite. Felt like Brad realized they are not good enough as is. Said they need to add to the team. Talked about their record vs the elite teams in the league.

I think after hearing that presser we might see some moves like we did after 2023.

I don't think that means anything. Tatum was out for 75-80% of the season. Of course their record against stronger teams isn't going to be good this year.

He talked about it in depth. Added that the league this year had a lot of teams playing for draft picks and next year the league will be much better.

Sounded like he knows his team just is not good enough.

This is the thing that stood out to me the most. He is basically saying that he isn't very impressed with the team as is and the record this year had an inflated number of wins because of all the tanking teams. Doesn't sound like a guy who is celebrating the team winning 56 games and just standing pat with Tatum coming back fully healthy next season.

That and the fact that he really emphasized how poorly our team initiates offense going back to even last year. If there's one thing about Brad, he isn't afraid to make major moves. It was really just after our Title year that he made minimal changes.

[Who]

• Multiple times he addressed the issue of generating good shots as a problem of the last couple of years, including the championship year = unsatisfied with the driving and playmaking ability of the core Tatum-Brown-White-Pritchard-Hauser

this has been a problem with the team not having a real playmaker.  too much reliance on non-natural playmakers having to set up other players

This is the trade off.

We sacrificed some offensive creation in order to put a stronger defensive team on the floor.

We don't have Tatum & Jaylen doing so much playmaking because they are great at it but because it allows us to put defensive minded combo guards (D White, Jrue, M Smart) in the backcourt rather an offensive minded guards most of who are defensive liabilities.

• A lot of emphasis on our record against top teams, the amount of tanking teams and that we'll see what this team is made of next year = not impressed with the regular season record as an indicator we're close

I agree with Stevens that our win total inflated how good of a squad this was. I saw it more as a 45-48 win team than a 56 win team. However, that was without Jayson Tatum. With Tatum, this is a 55-60 win team.

We are close.[/list]

[Goldstar88]

Milwaukee Bucks co-owner Jimmy Haslam says he would like to have Giannis Antetokounmpo?s future sorted out before next month's NBA draft.

[Phantom255x]

I've seen people propose Jaylen + more for Giannis on social media, but I'd still like to know what other teams are offering. I'm assuming the Spurs and Rockets won't go after him. Maybe the Knicks do if they don't reach the Finals, idk. But otherwise, is the best offer out there from Miami basically with Ware, Herro and picks?

I'd say the Knicks and Blazers are the best bets, and they could outbid us OR force the C's to send Jaylen Brown back. But otherwise, if there isn't a bidding war, I think you could get it done without Jaylen. We've seen disgruntled superstar players go for a lot less than expected and Giannis' age + injury history might add some intrigue. But I also think Giannis himself is done at MIL, he'll force it this summer.

The Blazers can probably offer the more complete package to get it done with a lot of assets (both short and long term), but keep in mind that owner is a cheapskate and nickels-and-dime everything in that operation. Not sure he'll want to just add Giannis' salary and such, as crazy as that may sound (seriously, look up this owner on google and twitter, it's crazy, he even sets limits on coaches salaries, fan merchandise in playoff games, etc.)