If Jrue is to be traded...ideas

[tazzmaniac]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1932111264781578509

The Boston Celtics are reportedly seeking a first-round pick for Jrue Holiday, per
@HPbasketball
 

?Hall of Famer Marc Stein reported this weekend that Boston is in fact listening to trade offers for Holiday, something most people assumed. While the focus has been on reducing payroll, sources have told the Paroxysm that Boston is setting the price at a first-round pick along with whatever reduced salary comes back in the deal.?

Yeah they are not getting back a first round pick in a trade lol

It depends on what players are coming back.

You can get a 1st round pick but you will get worse players (contracts) because of it. Or you can sacrifice the 1st round pick and get better veteran players without it.

Yep.  And any 1st round pick is going to be highly protected.  The big thing is finding the right team with a desperate owner.  That's why I look to the Clips.  They're certainly in a win now mode with Kawhi's age and health.  I don't think they have the assets to acquire KD or similar level player.  Would KD even play with Harden again?  Jrue may be the best addition they can get especially without losing any of their top players.  Finally, Balmer has to be absolutely desperate for a championship.  They haven't even made the finals. Personally, I'd prioritize maximizing salary reduction and then pick(s) over getting back better veteran players. 

I still like Jrue for Bogdanovic, Batum (assuming he picks up his player option) and Eubanks.  We might be able to get their 2030 1st (lottery protected) or at least protected pick swaps for their 2030 and 2031 1sts.  Bogdanovic's 2nd year is a team option so he should be able to be rerouted without giving up a pick (e.g. to Hawks for Niang who could also get rerouted).  You could potentially reroute everyone and to save 32.4M in salary.  That would leave 12.4M to fill out the last 4 roster spots and still remain below the 2nd apron. 

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

Maybe. Jaylen Brown took a good step forward as a distributor last year. I'm curious what he can do if given more opportunity this season. I could see a small step forward. I'm curious about the same thing for Derrick White. I think there is a good possibility this year is his career high in points and assists per game (perhaps a fringe all-star?). Overall though, yes, I agree there aren't any big steps left to take. Ideally, we could find another young player that could be impactful, but Scheierman, Walsh, and Davison have all been disappointments so far.

As to your point about their 2nd round loss - I wouldn't call it a fluke. Sometimes talented teams just don't play good basketball. That's what I saw. Combine that with some bad injury/illness luck, and you have a disappointing 2nd round exit. I would argue that the way the Celtics were playing together last year was good enough to beat this year's Thunder team. And I do think that the 26-27 team can be just as good as the 24 Championship team, depending on what happens with Holliday, Hauser, and Horford's rotation minutes.

I asked you in a different thread, but serious question - What is the likelihood that we could get as much talent as we currently have with "cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks"? I think you are wanting to trade away a lot of talent with the hope that we can somehow get better players back for a future theoretical championship run? How likely is that? How likely is it that we can sign a better free agent than Jaylen Brown? Or trade some young talent for a top 15 point guard like Derrick White? Or find a player as unique an effective as a Healthy Zinger is?

The Heat have been playing that game for a decade now without any championships. In fact, there are a lot of teams that have tried to play that game with cap space and it has been disastrous (Suns, Nets, Sixers, etc.).

no idea, but I don't see the team winning without the moves, so you make the moves and hope you hit on the draft picks.  And you take it from there.  Maybe you can't find any good free agents or trade options, but if you hit on the picks that in and of itself might be good enough. 

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

This doesn't make much sense.

Obviously this year's team wasn't the best this core can play, as its season was ended by injuries.  That doesn't mean that the same core can't win in the future.

The only reason to trade away anybody is financial.

Tatum got hurt with the team down 3-1.  Can't blame the loss on his injury.  Zinger didn't play the year before either.  He is never healthy (which is also sort of the point). 

You trade people away to actually set the team up to win in the future. The window for the current group is over. Standing pat not only delays the inevitable but also removes the ability to trade certain assets as they expire, get older, etc. This is the summer to make moves

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

Maybe. Jaylen Brown took a good step forward as a distributor last year. I'm curious what he can do if given more opportunity this season. I could see a small step forward. I'm curious about the same thing for Derrick White. I think there is a good possibility this year is his career high in points and assists per game (perhaps a fringe all-star?). Overall though, yes, I agree there aren't any big steps left to take. Ideally, we could find another young player that could be impactful, but Scheierman, Walsh, and Davison have all been disappointments so far.

As to your point about their 2nd round loss - I wouldn't call it a fluke. Sometimes talented teams just don't play good basketball. That's what I saw. Combine that with some bad injury/illness luck, and you have a disappointing 2nd round exit. I would argue that the way the Celtics were playing together last year was good enough to beat this year's Thunder team. And I do think that the 26-27 team can be just as good as the 24 Championship team, depending on what happens with Holliday, Hauser, and Horford's rotation minutes.

I asked you in a different thread, but serious question - What is the likelihood that we could get as much talent as we currently have with "cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks"? I think you are wanting to trade away a lot of talent with the hope that we can somehow get better players back for a future theoretical championship run? How likely is that? How likely is it that we can sign a better free agent than Jaylen Brown? Or trade some young talent for a top 15 point guard like Derrick White? Or find a player as unique an effective as a Healthy Zinger is?

The Heat have been playing that game for a decade now without any championships. In fact, there are a lot of teams that have tried to play that game with cap space and it has been disastrous (Suns, Nets, Sixers, etc.).

no idea, but I don't see the team winning without the moves, so you make the moves and hope you hit on the draft picks.  And you take it from there.  Maybe you can't find any good free agents or trade options, but if you hit on the picks that in and of itself might be good enough.

You ever hear the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

We already have the core that is talented enough to win a championship. That was proven last year. Those guys aren't getting so old that championship doesn't apply. The Brown-White-Tatum combo is still and will be in their prime for 3-4 more years. If you want to argue that our 4-5th option need retooled to prepare for their next run in 26-27 - fine.

It seems like you are throwing the bird in your hand back into the bush, and then holding out your hand like a disney princess hoping another one will land in it.

[slamtheking]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

Maybe. Jaylen Brown took a good step forward as a distributor last year. I'm curious what he can do if given more opportunity this season. I could see a small step forward. I'm curious about the same thing for Derrick White. I think there is a good possibility this year is his career high in points and assists per game (perhaps a fringe all-star?). Overall though, yes, I agree there aren't any big steps left to take. Ideally, we could find another young player that could be impactful, but Scheierman, Walsh, and Davison have all been disappointments so far.

As to your point about their 2nd round loss - I wouldn't call it a fluke. Sometimes talented teams just don't play good basketball. That's what I saw. Combine that with some bad injury/illness luck, and you have a disappointing 2nd round exit. I would argue that the way the Celtics were playing together last year was good enough to beat this year's Thunder team. And I do think that the 26-27 team can be just as good as the 24 Championship team, depending on what happens with Holliday, Hauser, and Horford's rotation minutes.

I asked you in a different thread, but serious question - What is the likelihood that we could get as much talent as we currently have with "cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks"? I think you are wanting to trade away a lot of talent with the hope that we can somehow get better players back for a future theoretical championship run? How likely is that? How likely is it that we can sign a better free agent than Jaylen Brown? Or trade some young talent for a top 15 point guard like Derrick White? Or find a player as unique an effective as a Healthy Zinger is?

The Heat have been playing that game for a decade now without any championships. In fact, there are a lot of teams that have tried to play that game with cap space and it has been disastrous (Suns, Nets, Sixers, etc.).

no idea, but I don't see the team winning without the moves, so you make the moves and hope you hit on the draft picks.  And you take it from there.  Maybe you can't find any good free agents or trade options, but if you hit on the picks that in and of itself might be good enough.

You ever hear the phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

We already have the core that is talented enough to win a championship. That was proven last year. Those guys aren't getting so old that championship doesn't apply. The Brown-White-Tatum combo is still and will be in their prime for 3-4 more years. If you want to argue that our 4-5th option need retooled to prepare for their next run in 26-27 - fine.

It seems like you are throwing the bird in your hand back into the bush, and then holding out your hand like a disney princess hoping another one will land in it.

don't forget this is the same person for years has stated that there was no way the C's could win a title with both Tatum and Brown and that Brown needed to be traded.  Always passes their opinion off as fact.  We all saw how that panned out last season with JB getting the Conference and Finals MVP awards. 

Any player/roster assessments that this person states needs to be done should really be taken with a large grain of salt.

[GreenEnvy]

Celtics fully healthy (mainly, KP? he was atrocious out there dealing with whatever was going on) I truly believe would have beaten the Knicks (with ease), the Pacers (without much difficulty), and given the Thunder all they could handle in a great Finals. Both regular season games against OKC were tight.

Celtics are 100% legit contenders when healthy. The real question is do they believe this roster can stay healthy when it matters?

[Roy H.]

Celtics fully healthy (mainly, KP? he was atrocious out there dealing with whatever was going on) I truly believe would have beaten the Knicks (with ease), the Pacers (without much difficulty), and given the Thunder all they could handle in a great Finals. Both regular season games against OKC were tight.

Celtics are 100% legit contenders when healthy. The real question is do they believe this roster can stay healthy when it matters?

Yeah.  I think the idea that the 2025 Celts were at peak performance is somewhere between silly and crazy.

KP was dealing with the post-virus syndrome.  JB was playing on torn meniscus.  Tatum, Jrue and Hauser missed three playoff games each.

[Vermont Green]

It is a legit question for every team ever that has had a championship team.  How long to you hang on to the core?  When do you blow it up?

I agree that 2025-26 is a lost cause, even if Tatum somehow makes it back.  He probably won't be 100% and do you really want to play him play off minutes immediately after coming back from this serious of an injury?  I don't.  For 2025-26, the lower in the standings the better, but that doesn't mean we should trade everyone and not have anyone for 2026-27.

My strategy would be to make some cost cutting moves this season, I understand why they will need to do that, but keep a core unit to make a run in 2026-27 and beyond.  I think a team with Tatum, Brown, and White is still right there with anyone.  Even if these players are peaking now, they are still a very solid core.  If it goes really badly in 2026-27, then blow it up.  And if you can add Porzingis at say $15M per season for 2026 and beyond, even better.  He has durability issues but even with that, what big are you going to get that would be better?

Brown or whoever you want to trade will have plenty of value now and will in a couple of years too.  I don't see how we come out of it better by trading Brown now.  For a truly good deal, sure, but not for expiring contacts and draft picks.

[Vermont Green]

Here are my assumptions, trade Holiday and replace his salary slot with a player making around $10M.  Extend Porzingis at about $15M per season (not sure anyone would pay him more than that).  Trade Hauser and replace his slot with a min contract.  Kornet is resigned at around $8M per year.  Everything else is at or near min contract value.

That would get us under the 2nd apron for 2026-27 and under the tax (assuming it goes up about 10% each year).   Our team is as follows:

Tatum
Brown
White
Porzingis
$10M Player we get for trading Holiday

Pritchard, Kornet, Craig, Scheierman, Queta, rookies, and so on.  As good as the current team with Horford and all?  No.  But good enough to contend.

[Roy H.]

Here are my assumptions, trade Holiday and replace his salary slot with a player making around $10M.  Extend Porzingis at about $15M per season (not sure anyone would pay him more than that).  Trade Hauser and replace his slot with a min contract.  Kornet is resigned at around $8M per year.  Everything else is at or near min contract value.

That would get us under the 2nd apron for 2026-27 and under the tax (assuming it goes up about 10% each year).   Our team is as follows:

Tatum
Brown
White
Porzingis
$10M Player we get for trading Holiday

Pritchard, Kornet, Craig, Scheierman, Queta, rookies, and so on.  As good as the current team with Horford and all?  No.  But good enough to contend.

Why $8 million per season for Kornet?  That seems higher than the market suggests.

[Roy H.]

A lot of the Jrue ideas are centered around a 1-for-2 or 1-for-3 type of deal, where we dump salary by rerouting a player to another team. 

Here's a list of trade exceptions that exceed the projected $14.1 million MLE:

Atlanta:  $25,266,266
Brooklyn:  $23,300,000 (likely to be renounced if they use cap space)
Chicago:  $17,186,573
Sacramento - $16,830,357
Miami - $16,070,814

It looks like as many as 19 teams could use the full MLE this off-season, although the number that actually do will surely be smaller.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Here are my assumptions, trade Holiday and replace his salary slot with a player making around $10M.  Extend Porzingis at about $15M per season (not sure anyone would pay him more than that).  Trade Hauser and replace his slot with a min contract.  Kornet is resigned at around $8M per year.  Everything else is at or near min contract value.

That would get us under the 2nd apron for 2026-27 and under the tax (assuming it goes up about 10% each year).   Our team is as follows:

Tatum
Brown
White
Porzingis
$10M Player we get for trading Holiday

Pritchard, Kornet, Craig, Scheierman, Queta, rookies, and so on.  As good as the current team with Horford and all?  No.  But good enough to contend.

Why $8 million per season for Kornet?  That seems higher than the market suggests.

I'm hoping we can get a discount, but that's right in the range with guys like Bitadze and Landale. Bitadze is younger and may have some upside left. Landale was an overpay by the Rockets at the time, and looks like one moreso now.

I'm hoping we can sign him for a contract like Thomas Bryant (vet min), Andrew Drummond (5m, 1+1 team option), or Drew Eubanks (5m).

[Moranis]

Celtics fully healthy (mainly, KP? he was atrocious out there dealing with whatever was going on) I truly believe would have beaten the Knicks (with ease), the Pacers (without much difficulty), and given the Thunder all they could handle in a great Finals. Both regular season games against OKC were tight.

Celtics are 100% legit contenders when healthy. The real question is do they believe this roster can stay healthy when it matters?

Yeah.  I think the idea that the 2025 Celts were at peak performance is somewhere between silly and crazy.

KP was dealing with the post-virus syndrome.  JB was playing on torn meniscus.  Tatum, Jrue and Hauser missed three playoff games each.

I didn't say they were at peak performance, I said they weren't going to be better than they were.  2024 was their peak.  Tatum blew out his Achilles, Brown once again missed 15ish games (happens basically every year and he isnt getting younger), Porzingis once again wasn't healthy (when is he though), Holiday and Horford are getting older and slowing down, and even White regressed basically across the board (slightly but still a regression).  The idea that 2 years down the road the team is somehow going to reverse time and get better isnt logical.

[Roy H.]

Celtics fully healthy (mainly, KP? he was atrocious out there dealing with whatever was going on) I truly believe would have beaten the Knicks (with ease), the Pacers (without much difficulty), and given the Thunder all they could handle in a great Finals. Both regular season games against OKC were tight.

Celtics are 100% legit contenders when healthy. The real question is do they believe this roster can stay healthy when it matters?

Yeah.  I think the idea that the 2025 Celts were at peak performance is somewhere between silly and crazy.

KP was dealing with the post-virus syndrome.  JB was playing on torn meniscus.  Tatum, Jrue and Hauser missed three playoff games each.

I didn't say they were at peak performance, I said they weren't going to be better than they were.  2024 was their peak.  Tatum blew out his Achilles, Brown once again missed 15ish games (happens basically every year and he isnt getting younger), Porzingis once again wasn't healthy (when is he though), Holiday and Horford are getting older and slowing down, and even White regressed basically across the board (slightly but still a regression).  The idea that 2 years down the road the team is somehow going to reverse time and get better isnt logical.

Here's your argument:

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?

The team lost in the second round because of injuries and ailments.  They blew multiple 20 point leads, which isn't really indicative of their talent.  The second round loss isn't really a reflection of the quality of their team.  In the regular season, they were 2nd in offensive rating and 3rd in net rating.

But, based upon your absence from this site, I assume that you missed the regular season and the first round of the playoffs?

[No Nickname]

Here are my assumptions, trade Holiday and replace his salary slot with a player making around $10M.  Extend Porzingis at about $15M per season (not sure anyone would pay him more than that).  Trade Hauser and replace his slot with a min contract.  Kornet is resigned at around $8M per year.  Everything else is at or near min contract value.

That would get us under the 2nd apron for 2026-27 and under the tax (assuming it goes up about 10% each year).   Our team is as follows:

Tatum
Brown
White
Porzingis
$10M Player we get for trading Holiday

Pritchard, Kornet, Craig, Scheierman, Queta, rookies, and so on.  As good as the current team with Horford and all?  No.  But good enough to contend.

Would that allow us to use the non-taxpayer MLE ($14MM in year 1)?