If Jrue is to be traded...ideas

[slamtheking]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1932111264781578509

The Boston Celtics are reportedly seeking a first-round pick for Jrue Holiday, per
@HPbasketball
 

?Hall of Famer Marc Stein reported this weekend that Boston is in fact listening to trade offers for Holiday, something most people assumed. While the focus has been on reducing payroll, sources have told the Paroxysm that Boston is setting the price at a first-round pick along with whatever reduced salary comes back in the deal.?

Yeah they are not getting back a first round pick in a trade lol

Why?   Team that are looking to add Holiday are likely good teams looking for a part to take them over the top with a non-lotto pick.

I think his contract will make it tough to get it.

My ideas have been Jrue + a future protected 1st for DeRozan + Ellis, OR Jrue + a 2nd round pick for Gafford + Hardy (a 3rd team like BKN/UTAH helps to facilitate in each idea)

I haven't seen many online trade ideas or mocks where Jrue fetches us a 1st. The "best" deals I've seen are similar, like Gafford, Norman Powell (if LAC is interested in Jrue) but not with any FRPs coming back, and in some of them we have to attach a 2nd to dump his salary.

I don't understand those trades that are popular online. Why is the team that is giving up the best player (or the most desired player at least) not getting anything back?

I could understand the final year of his contract being tough, but I'd argue having Jrue for the next 2 seasons is a bonus, not a detriment.

agreed.

there's several teams interested in Jrue so this trade will net some decent assets with a first rounder being part of that.  The teams looking to acquire him are already high level teams that would not let a late first rounder impede their chance to obtain a player who's shown to be a difference maker when it comes to winning titles -- not just once but twice.   that pick will almost certainly be a future draft -- likely next year when they anticipate having an excellent record.

that's not to say that Brad might not have to include a second rounder to a team accepting a player from this deal to encourage them to absorb that contract.  hopefully not the one from this year though

[slamtheking]

double post

[Vermont Green]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up. 

[jambr380]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

[Who]

So we would be paying Tatum around $60mil, Jaylen around $60mi. Then we would have D White at $30mil and Porzinigs at $30 so $60mil between the two of them. $180mil for 4 players.

The cap will go up some. That is what they would have to fill out the rest of the roster.

[Ilikesports17]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

I'd argue that if Tatum comes back a top 10 player rather than the top 5 player he was a Tatum-Brown-White-Porzingis top 4 would be more than good enough at the top to win a championship.

The real problem would be depth. You can't just have a great starting lineup anymore, especially if your top player isn't a generational guy.

There really is no good solution here. If we say the current group won't win a title, we can just as easily say the next group after them won't either. It's not like a path exists that makes us likely to win one. It's hard to pick out the ideal path because the ideal path depends on how much teams around the league are willing to give up. I have a very hard time projecting what type of value we'd get back for Brown and White. Everyone will want White but can anyone offer us the draft capital to make it worth it? Brown's salary is huge, but with the news Giannis will likely be back in Milwaukee he's also the 2nd best player on the market this summer. Does Houston or San Antonio view him as their ticket to genuine contention? How many of the teams eying Giannis will pivot back to Jaylen Brown?

[tazzmaniac]

So we would be paying Tatum around $60mil, Jaylen around $60mi. Then we would have D White at $30mil and Porzinigs at $30 so $60mil between the two of them. $180mil for 4 players.

The cap will go up some. That is what they would have to fill out the rest of the roster.

No way should KP be re-signed for 30M per year.  Just can't stay healthy enough to justify that. Unfortunately, he'll probably stay healthy this season in a contract year with Tatum out and no shot at the championship and some idiot GM will offer him that 30M/year. 

[Who]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1932111264781578509

The Boston Celtics are reportedly seeking a first-round pick for Jrue Holiday, per
@HPbasketball
 

?Hall of Famer Marc Stein reported this weekend that Boston is in fact listening to trade offers for Holiday, something most people assumed. While the focus has been on reducing payroll, sources have told the Paroxysm that Boston is setting the price at a first-round pick along with whatever reduced salary comes back in the deal.?

Yeah they are not getting back a first round pick in a trade lol

It depends on what players are coming back.

You can get a 1st round pick but you will get worse players (contracts) because of it. Or you can sacrifice the 1st round pick and get better veteran players without it.

Getting a 1st wouldn't be difficult. Whether the 1st is the best option rather than beter veteran players is the question.

[tazzmaniac]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

I'd argue that if Tatum comes back a top 10 player rather than the top 5 player he was a Tatum-Brown-White-Porzingis top 4 would be more than good enough at the top to win a championship.

The real problem would be depth. You can't just have a great starting lineup anymore, especially if your top player isn't a generational guy.

I agree the top 4 would be good enough to win a championship.  However, the real problem would be health.  Will Tatum be back as a top 10 player in 2026-27 or will it not be until 2027-28?  KD said it took him 2 years to feel back to normal.  Of course, there's always the possibility that Tatum doesn't come back nearly that well.  And then there is KP who can't be counted on at all to remain healthy.  If you don't have the top 4 healthy, the depth problem doesn't really matter. 

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum. 

[Roy H.]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

This doesn't make much sense.

Obviously this year's team wasn't the best this core can play, as its season was ended by injuries.  That doesn't mean that the same core can't win in the future.

The only reason to trade away anybody is financial.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I wouldn't trade JB, not if the plan is to win again starting in 26-27.

I think this is the key point.  I think if the core is Tatum, Brown, White, and Porzingis, that the team can compete in 2026-27.  What is the alternative without Brown?  About the best would be something like Tatum, White, Vassell, and Castle?

We can trade Holiday and say Hauser for 2025-26, get under the second apron, with an eye for competing again in 2026-27.  I think we can contend without Holiday and Hauser, but not without Brown.  Unless you trade Brown for Giannis or something like that (which is close to impossible as I understand the rules).

how far into the 2nd apron do you think the team is going to go to re-sign the always injured Porzingis?  I think it highly unlikely that Zinger is on the team with those 3 players in 26-27. The money just doesn't make it worthwhile to keep him. 

Tatum, Brown, White is simply not good enough especially post-Tatum injury, with White deeper into his 30's, and Brown continuing to age and always getting knicked up.

If we're talking after next year, the team can be under the 2nd apron by just removing Jrue or the players we trade Jrue for (assuming they are expiring). Well under in fact and enough to re-sign Horford/Kornet and even keep Hauser. If KP's next deal is in the $15-20M range, then you even have space to use the taxpayer MLE and take back a smallish salary using a TPE.

Having a $30M as your 3rd best player isn't a death sentence. Having three $30M as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th players is, which is why we're in the situation we are in today.

Tatum, Brown, and White are around 86% of the cap in 26-27.  Zinger at 20 million puts them right at the cap and that is just 4 players.  If they surrounded them with minimum and late 1st type players, then yes they'd have room under the 1st apron to add a taxpayer MLE, but that team isn't winning a championship because it isn't good enough at the top, middle, or back end of the roster.  Having 2 super max contracts makes it very difficult to build a quality team around them, especially as the penalties become greater and especially when at least 1 one of those players won't be worth their contract value.

As is often the case, I think you are taking the worst-case scenario view of everything.

1. Why should we assume Tatum can't get back to a top 10 player? I don't think it's something we should take for granted, but I don't see why we think he won't.
2. White just has his best career season. Why are we assuming he can't do that for or pretty similar for the next few years?
3. Why are we assuming Brown is "going to be nicked up" more now? He's among the elite in the way he takes care of his body. Durant is 37 and still playing. Butler is 35. DeRozan is 35. Why are we assuming he can't continue to carry this level of play and impact for the next 4-5 years?

Yes, Brown-Tatum-White may be 86% of the cap, but most championship-level teams are. I think we will see that this year goes down as an anomaly. It's on the front office to fill the team with effective talent around those guys. Stevens has shown to be one of the best at creating depth out of nothing over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not saying I wouldn't make any trades. I could see trying to get a massive haul back and rebuilding for the future. But it's a close call. This roster could be one of the deepest and most talented in the league again in 26-27, but you are acting like this roster is the 13-14 Nets with Garnett at 37, Pierce at 36, and Johnson at 32 leading the way. This team is not over the hill yet.

Do you agree that the team this year is the best version of the basic core i.e. no one in the core is going to get better as they get older or come back from injury?

If that is the case, why would a team with less good players be better than a team that lost in the 2nd round this year?  Even if you think the 2nd round loss was a fluke, it seems unlikely that Boston would have beaten the Thunder even if it got by the Pacers. 

So you take a team that isn't currently good enough, that has its best player coming off a major injury, and that invariably is going to lose key pieces, and it is basically impossible to see how that future team is going to win a championship.

That is how I look at it and why I'd move off of Brown, Holiday, and Porzingis (and maybe White).  I'd tank this season and go for a high level draft pick with Boston's own pick.  I'd make sure that in the Brown trade I got at least a few recent lottery picks and/or current/future lottery picks.  I'd try to move Holiday and Porzingis for expiring contracts or cheap easy to move contracts and future draft picks. If I got enough value for White, I'd move him as well. I'd want to enter the summer of 2026 with cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks. I'd then use the cap space for a free agent star (or 3rd player) and trade the high value assets for another star to pair with Tatum.

Maybe. Jaylen Brown took a good step forward as a distributor last year. I'm curious what he can do if given more opportunity this season. I could see a small step forward. I'm curious about the same thing for Derrick White. I think there is a good possibility this year is his career high in points and assists per game (perhaps a fringe all-star?). Overall though, yes, I agree there aren't any big steps left to take. Ideally, we could find another young player that could be impactful, but Scheierman, Walsh, and Davison have all been disappointments so far.

As to your point about their 2nd round loss - I wouldn't call it a fluke. Sometimes talented teams just don't play good basketball. That's what I saw. Combine that with some bad injury/illness luck, and you have a disappointing 2nd round exit. I would argue that the way the Celtics were playing together last year was good enough to beat this year's Thunder team. And I do think that the 26-27 team can be just as good as the 24 Championship team, depending on what happens with Holliday, Hauser, and Horford's rotation minutes.

I asked you in a different thread, but serious question - What is the likelihood that we could get as much talent as we currently have with "cap space, at least 1 lottery pick, young players, and future draft picks"? I think you are wanting to trade away a lot of talent with the hope that we can somehow get better players back for a future theoretical championship run? How likely is that? How likely is it that we can sign a better free agent than Jaylen Brown? Or trade some young talent for a top 15 point guard like Derrick White? Or find a player as unique an effective as a Healthy Zinger is?

The Heat have been playing that game for a decade now without any championships. In fact, there are a lot of teams that have tried to play that game with cap space and it has been disastrous (Suns, Nets, Sixers, etc.).