2024 NBA Offseason News

[trickybilly]

LeBron tenure in LA had been a D for me if grading him there & only reason not an F is he won a title albeit a bubble one..

weird grade. The 5 seasons before Lebron got there, the Lakers won 27, 21, 17, 26, and 35 games.  His first season they won 37, though Lebron played just 55 games and they were 28-27 with him.  Next season they acquired Davis, were the best team in the West all year, and won the title. They traded away som key vets, but wee still 42-30 the next year. Went up 2-1 on the Suns and then Davis got hurt in Game 4 and they ended up losing the series. Lebron and Davis both hurt the next year as they won just 33 games. But then ended up in the WCF last year and playoffs this year both with mid 40's wins. Lebron is in his upper 30's.  Not exactly sure what you were expecting, but they were significantly better woth Lebron than without him.

I think Lebron's tenure in LA has been disappointing.  I don't blame Lebron the player for that.  Lebron the GM and Lebron the Coach Killer?  Perhaps.  That Westbrook trade killed them, and they haven't found any consistency since.

But, it's not a failing grade or a D-.  I think almost every franchise in the NBA would be happy with one title in six seasons, even if the expectations were greater.  Worst case, it's a C+/B-.

and players don?t respect that mickey mouse

I'm not sure how I feel about the Bubble Title.  The games certainly didn't resemble anything like NBA basketball, but arguably the Lakers suffered as much as anybody due to HCA being meaningless.

Is that title more or less flukey than the 50 game season?

I don't think either was a fluke. The Lakers were the best team in the West when the season went on hold and were also one of the healthier ones.  Several western teams ended up getting stats healthy during the break. 

The Spurs had the best record in the sport. The Knicks weren't great, but they beat 70% win rate Blazers and 62% win rate Lakers in the playoffs.  And that was a Shaq/Kobe team. Even the 1st round Wolves was the best Wolves team till the Spreewl/Cassell team.

Those seasons were different but neither champion was a fluke.

sorry incorrect, thats how most players regard it, lakers wouldn't have won w/o a long break

But the question is - why did the break benefit the Lakers more than other teams? Because they're relying more on fragile superstars? Because LeBron's PED guy is still based in Florida?

And again the Lakers were healthy while many teams were not when the season went on hold. And the Lakers lost their starting SG who refused to play in the Bubble.  This talk is all because it was the Lakers who are the C's main rival for titles. It is silly. The Lakers earned that title. It wasn't a fluke and it shouldn't have an asterisk

Edit; BTW, Jaylen Brown was out when the season went on hold. He missed the 4 games before the stoppage and was back healthy for the bubble.

It very clearly should have an asterisk, the season was a completely different than a normal season because of the hold and then the bubble. That doesn't mean that the title should count as less than any other title, but it's a complete outlier of a season and that shouldn't be forgotten/ignored.

A Barry Bonds-style asterisk that discredits the accomplishment isn't the only kind of asterisk.

Well sure, but you could asterisk half the seasons, which is why it is silly. 

Put it this way, what seasons should not have an asterisk?  I mean this season was

30 teams
82 regular season games
4 full rounds of best of 7
Play-in
In season tournament

It is the only season in the history of the sport with all of those things.  Now next year, we should get another one, so if that is the new standard, do all prior seasons get an asterisk.

Or do we take a more general approach and say 82 game regular season and a full 4 rounds of playoffs (so no byes)? But then what do we do about 5 games vs. 7 games in the 1st round. The first season of 4 full rounds was the 1983-84 season. The 1st round went to best of 7 starting in the 2002-2003 season. Since that 03 season there have been 3 seasons that weren't 82 games (2011-12 was 66 games, and then the Covid year and the year after it).  And of course we didn't add the 30th team until the 2004-05 season.

But this is why I just don't put any stock into this.  You could literally asterisk just about every season because every season is different.  That is sort of the point.  There are teams being added or moving cities, there are less games, there is the play-in, there is the in season tournament, etc. They continually adjust the schedule and rest rules. The game continually adapts.

Perhaps the least well thought out post I have read In my 15 years here. Some seasons add a team. Others have an extra tournament game added or a play in added. This means a full playoffs with no crowds or travel is the same. lol. Like have a little self respect here

"Least we'll thought out ever" is possibly itself the Least thought out ever. There have been HUNDREDS of mind blowers over the years.

I don't like asterisk, and agree, so yeah, maybe lump me in there too.

[MattyIce]

The reality is there are a lot of seasons that are different. I mean Boston's 1st title came in a league with 8 teams, they played 72 regular season games, and had to win just 7 games in the playoffs.  That is pretty clearly different than this past title.  They both count though. They were both earned and they weren't a fluke.  That is the point.  Every single season has oddities and weirdness to them. Some are more different than others and this board going out of its way to discredit prior titles of other teams is just sad.

it's not just this board, does that make you sad?

It makes him quite sad honestly. When you got 200 posts defending the lakers bubble championship, 900 about lebrons accomplishments, 1300 bashing jaylens plus minus and zero saying you are happy we won a championship obviously you have some different motivations than other forum members.

he may as well get on Lebron's payroll like some others

[Kernewek]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

[Moranis]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

[CelticsWhat35]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

[Moranis]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

They were in the WCF 2 years ago and would have beaten the Heat. They couldn't beat the Nuggets (as we saw again this year). Not sure how much closer you think they should have been.  The year after the bubble, Davis got hurt in Game 4 against the Suns in a close game and with the Lakers up 2-1.  Davis and Lebron both got hurt in 22 and played like half the games. Then you have the last 2 years

And in case you missed Lebron is old.  He is getting worse and has been for years.

The Lakers were healthy at the break and lost their starting SG who refused to play in the bubble. They were the top seed in the West.  They were rolling that season.  Maybe the health gods would have come for Davis had the season not stopped (and frankly the fact he made it through the bubble is amazing) or maybe they wouldn't have. What we do know, is plenty of teams, including the Celtics actually and appreciably benefitted from the break as it allowed guys to get healthy like Brown, like Kemba, like Hayward (who got hurt in the bubble anyway). And then allowed them to play game 7 at a neutral site instead of Toronto.

[CelticsWhat35]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

They were in the WCF 2 years ago and would have beaten the Heat. They couldn't beat the Nuggets (as we saw again this year). Not sure how much closer you think they should have been.  The year after the bubble, Davis got hurt in Game 4 against the Suns in a close game and with the Lakers up 2-1.  Davis and Lebron both got hurt in 22 and played like half the games. Then you have the last 2 years

And in case you missed Lebron is old.  He is getting worse and has been for years.

The Lakers were healthy at the break and lost their starting SG who refused to play in the bubble. They were the top seed in the West.  They were rolling that season.  Maybe the health gods would have come for Davis had the season not stopped (and frankly the fact he made it through the bubble is amazing) or maybe they wouldn't have. What we do know, is plenty of teams, including the Celtics actually and appreciably benefitted from the break as it allowed guys to get healthy like Brown, like Kemba, like Hayward (who got hurt in the bubble anyway). And then allowed them to play game 7 at a neutral site instead of Toronto.

You just made my point; also, please don?t come with ?they made the WCF? when they got swept; nothing to beat your chest about

[Kernewek]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

They were in the WCF 2 years ago and would have beaten the Heat. They couldn't beat the Nuggets (as we saw again this year). Not sure how much closer you think they should have been.  The year after the bubble, Davis got hurt in Game 4 against the Suns in a close game and with the Lakers up 2-1.  Davis and Lebron both got hurt in 22 and played like half the games. Then you have the last 2 years

And in case you missed Lebron is old.  He is getting worse and has been for years.

The Lakers were healthy at the break and lost their starting SG who refused to play in the bubble. They were the top seed in the West.  They were rolling that season.  Maybe the health gods would have come for Davis had the season not stopped (and frankly the fact he made it through the bubble is amazing) or maybe they wouldn't have. What we do know, is plenty of teams, including the Celtics actually and appreciably benefitted from the break as it allowed guys to get healthy like Brown, like Kemba, like Hayward (who got hurt in the bubble anyway). And then allowed them to play game 7 at a neutral site instead of Toronto.

You just made my point; also, please don?t come with ?they made the WCF? when they got swept; nothing to beat your chest about

There is the small matter that your point is essentially irrelevant to the conversation at hand, though.

[Moranis]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

They were in the WCF 2 years ago and would have beaten the Heat. They couldn't beat the Nuggets (as we saw again this year). Not sure how much closer you think they should have been.  The year after the bubble, Davis got hurt in Game 4 against the Suns in a close game and with the Lakers up 2-1.  Davis and Lebron both got hurt in 22 and played like half the games. Then you have the last 2 years

And in case you missed Lebron is old.  He is getting worse and has been for years.

The Lakers were healthy at the break and lost their starting SG who refused to play in the bubble. They were the top seed in the West.  They were rolling that season.  Maybe the health gods would have come for Davis had the season not stopped (and frankly the fact he made it through the bubble is amazing) or maybe they wouldn't have. What we do know, is plenty of teams, including the Celtics actually and appreciably benefitted from the break as it allowed guys to get healthy like Brown, like Kemba, like Hayward (who got hurt in the bubble anyway). And then allowed them to play game 7 at a neutral site instead of Toronto.

You just made my point; also, please don?t come with ?they made the WCF? when they got swept; nothing to beat your chest about

There is the small matter that your point is essentially irrelevant to the conversation at hand, though.

plus he was just wrong unless he wants to argue that only the 2 teams in the finals sniff a title every year.

[CelticsWhat35]

I think it's worth pointing out at this juncture that no one in the 'asterisk' camp has answered my question.


Further, I would be surprised if they had shown the introspective capabilities necessary to consider the fact that the presence of an asterisk only matters to them because of who wound up winning that year.

I mean it is obvious they want an asterisk because it was the Lakers and they want to somehow cheapen the title. We all know an asterisk doesn't mean different, it means easier or not as good.

I do think you could argue it was the hardest title to win. I mean guys get sent home for months in the middle of a season and then pick back up for a few weeks to play a full playoffs, but do so quarantined for months away from their families, friends, and homes, and playing in an arena with no fans, no home court advantage, etc. and with all sorts of restrictions.  All teams did it, but it couldn't have been easy.

No one has answered the question of why the Lakers haven?t come close to sniffing a title since the bubble.  It still counts just like any other title, but to try to say it was actually tougher is laughable.  The wear and tear of a long season just wasn?t there and that?s what allowed AD to actually be able to contribute since he?s made of glass

They were in the WCF 2 years ago and would have beaten the Heat. They couldn't beat the Nuggets (as we saw again this year). Not sure how much closer you think they should have been.  The year after the bubble, Davis got hurt in Game 4 against the Suns in a close game and with the Lakers up 2-1.  Davis and Lebron both got hurt in 22 and played like half the games. Then you have the last 2 years

And in case you missed Lebron is old.  He is getting worse and has been for years.

The Lakers were healthy at the break and lost their starting SG who refused to play in the bubble. They were the top seed in the West.  They were rolling that season.  Maybe the health gods would have come for Davis had the season not stopped (and frankly the fact he made it through the bubble is amazing) or maybe they wouldn't have. What we do know, is plenty of teams, including the Celtics actually and appreciably benefitted from the break as it allowed guys to get healthy like Brown, like Kemba, like Hayward (who got hurt in the bubble anyway). And then allowed them to play game 7 at a neutral site instead of Toronto.

You just made my point; also, please don?t come with ?they made the WCF? when they got swept; nothing to beat your chest about

There is the small matter that your point is essentially irrelevant to the conversation at hand, though.

plus he was just wrong unless he wants to argue that only the 2 teams in the finals sniff a title every year.

Lebron has had 6 seasons with the Lakers; missed the playoffs twice, was out in the 1st round twice and got swept in the the WCF; the aberration was the bubble

[Who]

Interesting with or without you stats for Scottie Barnes

Last year with Scottie, 22 wins, and 38 losses. Not good, sure.

Last year without Scottie, 3 wins and 19 losses. That's worst in the league win %.

Another just for fun, with Scottie 114.5 PPG (would be 15th or so), without Scottie, 106.6 would be 29th.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Interesting with or without you stats for Scottie Barnes

Last year with Scottie, 22 wins, and 38 losses. Not good, sure.

Last year without Scottie, 3 wins and 19 losses. That's worst in the league win %.

Another just for fun, with Scottie 114.5 PPG (would be 15th or so), without Scottie, 106.6 would be 29th.

Are we sure he contributes to winning?

[celticinorlando]

Woj:

BREAKING: The Brooklyn Nets have agreed in principle on a trade to send F Mikal Bridges to the New York Knicks for Bojan Bogdanovic, four unprotected first-round picks, a protected first-round pick via Bucks, an unprotected pick swap and a second-rounder, sources tell ESPN.

[Phantom255x]

Woj:

BREAKING: The Brooklyn Nets have agreed in principle on a trade to send F Mikal Bridges to the New York Knicks for Bojan Bogdanovic, four unprotected first-round picks, a protected first-round pick via Bucks, an unprotected pick swap and a second-rounder, sources tell ESPN.

Jesus? Five first rounders??

[hpantazo]

Woj:

BREAKING: The Brooklyn Nets have agreed in principle on a trade to send F Mikal Bridges to the New York Knicks for Bojan Bogdanovic, four unprotected first-round picks, a protected first-round pick via Bucks, an unprotected pick swap and a second-rounder, sources tell ESPN.

I love to see the Knicks going for it, but wow, 4 unprotected 1st rounders and an unprotected pick swap. This could really blow up in their face.