The Beginning of a Dynasty?

[Phantom255x]

The Celtics should focus on the next 2-3 years as their window for more rings.  I fear that the Age of Wemby is coming.

I?m glad the age of Wemby is with the Spurs and Popovich. Not someone like the Lakers or Sixers lol.

[SparzWizard]

The Celtics should focus on the next 2-3 years as their window for more rings.  I fear that the Age of Wemby is coming.

He'll have to compete with Jokic and Holmgren, so glad that's the West's problem. We just need to deal with what's in the East...namely Knicks, Pacers, Bucks to name a few.

[ScoobyDoo]

It?s interesting. You could make an argument they should already have won one title. They were at home for game four, up by seven points with not much time left against Golden State. If they hadn?t choked that game, they go up 3-1 and probably pull that championship out.

Next year is key. If they stay healthy and add a little bit more depth (say Batum and Drummond on vet mins) they should be able to repeat. From there I think they could easily add 2-3 more titles over the following 6-7 years until Tatum and Brown are in their early to mid 30?s.

Health will be huge. If we?re going to keep Porzingis, which I wouldn?t mind - we have to go get a starting caliber center who can step in when he goes down.

That?s why on like Drummond - he?s different but he?s durable and he can probably be enough to still get you a title if Tatum, Brown, White and Joliday are all healthy and playing well. If not Drummond, someone else of that caliber not named 39 year old Al Horford. As great as Al played, 39 is 39 and it?s not a good plan for him to be the go to guy when Porzingis goes down.

I do hope Al can play another 3-4 years though, in a PJ Tucker type role. A nice 15-25 minutes a night of veteran grit, smarts and tough nastiness.

[Goldstar88]

Maybe when the champagne wears off, we can be more realistic.

Will ask this again. If the C?s are healthy, who is challenging them? There?s a reason they had the 5th best point differential in NBA history this season.

Denver if they get some bench pieces or OKC if they get a serious big. OKC has a lot of resources.

I feel like Denver is pretty comparable to Dallas. Jokic and Doncic being extremely talented players, but neither is particularly good defensively. Then you have the # 2?s, Kyrie and Murray. Both are outstanding offensive players, but cannot play defense. Not sure who has a better 3rd option between MPJ and Washington. Nuggets did not look great in the playoffs this year. Jokic is turning 30 this coming season. OKC has 1 star player. I don?t think they are close to the C?s in talent.

Murray was hurt in the playoffs and it showed. They do need more bench depth though.

I think you are underestimating OKC.  SGA is a MVP candidate, Williams is entering his 3rd year and scored 19.1 ppg on TS% of 62.1% while adding over 4 rpg and apg.  Holmgren in his rookie year was awesome.  Dort is a strong wing defender and they have talented players like Giddey and Wallace filling out the bench.  The Thunder need another big man and could use a veteran for leadership, but given just how young they are if they made no major changes, I'd expect another jump and they were already the top seed in the west.

SGA is a great player, I?m just not sold on Jalen Williams as a second option. He wasn?t good in the playoffs. I think Chet needs to be more aggressive offensively for them to be a contender. They are also a small team. Holmgren is too slight to play center. Dort is what a 6?4? forward?

[Moranis]

Maybe when the champagne wears off, we can be more realistic.

Will ask this again. If the C?s are healthy, who is challenging them? There?s a reason they had the 5th best point differential in NBA history this season.

Denver if they get some bench pieces or OKC if they get a serious big. OKC has a lot of resources.

I feel like Denver is pretty comparable to Dallas. Jokic and Doncic being extremely talented players, but neither is particularly good defensively. Then you have the # 2?s, Kyrie and Murray. Both are outstanding offensive players, but cannot play defense. Not sure who has a better 3rd option between MPJ and Washington. Nuggets did not look great in the playoffs this year. Jokic is turning 30 this coming season. OKC has 1 star player. I don?t think they are close to the C?s in talent.

Murray was hurt in the playoffs and it showed. They do need more bench depth though.

I think you are underestimating OKC.  SGA is a MVP candidate, Williams is entering his 3rd year and scored 19.1 ppg on TS% of 62.1% while adding over 4 rpg and apg.  Holmgren in his rookie year was awesome.  Dort is a strong wing defender and they have talented players like Giddey and Wallace filling out the bench.  The Thunder need another big man and could use a veteran for leadership, but given just how young they are if they made no major changes, I'd expect another jump and they were already the top seed in the west.

SGA is a great player, I?m just not sold on Jalen Williams as a second option. He wasn?t good in the playoffs. I think Chet needs to be more aggressive offensively for them to be a contender. They are also a small team. Holmgren is too slight to play center. Dort is what a 6?4? forward?

Williams was in his 2nd year.  He is going to get a lot better and more consistent.  They are definitely small.  They need a center next to Chet.  I'm mixed on the Giddey for Caruso trade, but it does provide some solid veteran leadership which the team needed and Giddey definitely seemed immature.  If they do get Harenstein in free agency, the Thunder are going to be a great team if they can stay healthy.

[tenn_smoothie]

The early 00 Pistons are the most likely comparison. It is hard to win 1 title let alone 2 and the teams that have won multiple titles all had at least 1 top 30 player all time and many of those teams had more than 1 such player (the only exceptions are the Cowens Celtics and Reed Knicks - so both pre-merger and in the parity filled 70's).  As good as Tatum and Brown are, neither is anywhere near that type of player. I'm not even sure they are Cowens or Reed either (well at least Reed in 70, by 73 he tailed off but they did have a host of HOFers).

Let's just enjoy 1 before we put unrealistic expectations of a dynasty on the team.

Cowens and Havlicek are easily top 30 players all time.
Cowens was league MVP and Havlicek was the best or second-best player on 6 title teams.
That 70's group somehow is forgotten and under-rated for years now.

ESPN had Cowens at 66 and Hondo 33 a fee years back.  That was for the top 76 list and didn't include Jokic among others. They also had Zeke at 31, so I suppose you could include the Bad Boy Pistons in that list as well, though I think a lot of people do have Thomas in the top 30.

ESPN ? I don't always put a lot of faith in their "experts" in any sport. Cowens @ 66 is an insult. League MVP and the best player on the 70's Celtics w/ 2 NBA titles and the best record in franchise history in 1973. The ESPN/NBA page this week had an article about the Celtics title history that was accompanied by a graphic showing different players from each era ................ except the 70's teams. Small detail ? Sure, but I see that group left out of a lot of discussions about Celtics title eras. They have always been overlooked and underrated. Not glamorous enough, I suppose.

[Neurotic Guy]

The early 00 Pistons are the most likely comparison. It is hard to win 1 title let alone 2 and the teams that have won multiple titles all had at least 1 top 30 player all time and many of those teams had more than 1 such player (the only exceptions are the Cowens Celtics and Reed Knicks - so both pre-merger and in the parity filled 70's).  As good as Tatum and Brown are, neither is anywhere near that type of player. I'm not even sure they are Cowens or Reed either (well at least Reed in 70, by 73 he tailed off but they did have a host of HOFers).

Let's just enjoy 1 before we put unrealistic expectations of a dynasty on the team.

Cowens and Havlicek are easily top 30 players all time.
Cowens was league MVP and Havlicek was the best or second-best player on 6 title teams.
That 70's group somehow is forgotten and under-rated for years now.

ESPN had Cowens at 66 and Hondo 33 a fee years back.  That was for the top 76 list and didn't include Jokic among others. They also had Zeke at 31, so I suppose you could include the Bad Boy Pistons in that list as well, though I think a lot of people do have Thomas in the top 30.

ESPN ? I don't always put a lot of faith in their "experts" in any sport. Cowens @ 66 is an insult. League MVP and the best player on the 70's Celtics w/ 2 NBA titles and the best record in franchise history in 1973. The ESPN/NBA page this week had an article about the Celtics title history that was accompanied by a graphic showing different players from each era ................ except the 70's teams. Small detail ? Sure, but I see that group left out of a lot of discussions about Celtics title eras. They have always been overlooked and underrated. Not glamorous enough, I suppose.

A great team.  That team won two championships when I was in high school. More so than the Russell or Bird eras, the early-mid 70?s teams (coached by Tommy) are responsible for my love for the Celtics.

[hwangjini_1]

this is a very interesting video with five numbers/stats to show how dominate this year's celtics team was compared to other celtics teams, other nba teams, and in nba history.

it is a very good watch and something we might keep in mind as we have questions about them.

https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1803428439455629678?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1803428439455629678%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[Goldstar88]

this is a very interesting video with five numbers/stats to show how dominate this year's celtics team was compared to other celtics teams, other nba teams, and in nba history.

it is a very good watch and something we might keep in mind as we have questions about them.

https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1803428439455629678?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1803428439455629678%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

From NBC Sports:

Regular season

The Celtics finished first in the Eastern Conference standings by 14 games, the largest margin between No. 1 and No. 2 since 1976.
Their 1.22 points per possession and 122.2 offensive rating were the best in league history.
Outscored teams by an average of 11.34 points per game -- fifth in NBA history.
Began the season with a team record 20-0 start at TD Garden. Finished with a 37-4 record at home, the third-best mark in franchise history.
Team records for offensive rating, net rating, scoring margin, 3-point shots made, and fewest turnovers.
Only team ever to win three games by 50 or more points in one season.
Sam Hauser hit 21 3-pointers over three games to surpass teammate Jayson Tatum (19) for the most in franchise history in that span.
Payton Pritchard became the first Celtic in the play-by-play era to have at least 23 points and nine assists in the first half of a game (April 12 vs. Hornets).
Pritchard notched his 11th game with at least five 3-pointers off the bench, breaking the Celtics record he shared with Hauser.
Celtics' 19 wins by 25+ points is the most in NBA history.


NBA playoffs

Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown surpassed Larry Bird and Kevin McHale for most playoff games in Celtics franchise history with at least 25 points each (18 times).
Derrick White became the third player in NBA playoff history to have at least 35 points, eight 3-pointers, and three blocks in a game
Became the first team in NBA playoff history with three players with at least 25 points and three steals.
Tatum passed Lakers great Kobe Bryant for the most career playoff points (2,711) for a player aged 26 or younger.
Al Horford became the first player in NBA history to record at least 10 rebounds, five 3-pointers, five assists, and three blocks in a playoff game (Game 5 vs. Cavaliers).


NBA Finals

First team in NBA Finals history to have seven players make at least two 3-pointers (Game 1 vs. Mavericks).
First team in Finals history to have all five starters record at least nine points and six rebounds (Game 5 vs. Mavericks).
Tatum became the first player in NBA history with at least 30 points and 10 assists in an NBA Finals game (Game 5 vs. Mavericks).
Celtics break tie with Lakers for NBA lead in championships (18).

[Moranis]

Tatum is most certainly not the first player in NBA history wkth 30 points and 10 assists In a Finals game. He wasn't even the first player in this Finals to do it as Luka did it in game 2.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tatum is most certainly not the first player in NBA history wkth 30 points and 10 assists In a Finals game. He wasn't even the first player in this Finals to do it as Luka did it in game 2.

I would have to think for an NBA finals clincher maybe? Though even then I'd be surprised if Tatum was the first with that stat line under those conditions.

[Phantom255x]

We'll see what happens in FA. But realistically what East team(s) do you think will be our biggest threat? Because I got to be honest... I don't see many. To me the two that stick out are a healthy Knicks and Pacers. I wouldn't be surprised if 1 (or even both) of the Bucks/Heat slip, and then we'll see what the Sixers do in the offseason but is Embiid also gonna stay healthy? Orlando as well is interesting, but that's assuming they are successful in adding 1 or 2 impactful FA's.

I think our biggest threats will come from the West, particularly DEN/OKC/MIN/DAL.

Our path this year was certainly easy but again, part of that was because guys got hurt AND some of those teams like Cleveland and even Dallas were very centered on 1 or 2 players. C's meanwhile are loaded and even their 4th/5th starters would be #2s or #3 on other teams.

[Surferdad]

Phantom, I do not consider Dallas a threat to Boston. 
I do agree about healthy Knicks and Pacers in the East.

[Phantom255x]

Phantom, I do not consider Dallas a threat to Boston. 
I do agree about healthy Knicks and Pacers in the East.

I only added Dallas because they did make the Finals and who knows, maybe they find a way to add another solid player to aid Kyrie and Luka?

I personally think OKC is the team to beat in the next few years from the West. Yes Denver is a threat. But that OKC team is young and rising. Reminds me of those "bridgey Celtics" which included the growth of Tatum and Brown. They got experience and also suffered some tough losses but it built to this moment culminating in Banner 18. And if OKC can add another big man (Hartenstein or Valenciunas) along with the Caruso addition, then yeah. OKC was the 1 seed last year. Spurs with Wemby still seem a year or two away. Minnesota I think needs to make an impactful move to be in OKC's class because sorry, I'm not a huge KAT fan and he can't be their #2.

I just think the East is riddled with injury prone players, mediocre teams AND a handful of stars who are getting up there in age. I mean I didn't realize Embiid is already 30 years old. Butler, Giannis, etc. are getting a bit older. The West is the conference stacked with the young up and coming talent (Doncic, Wemby, SGA, Ant, Morant, etc.)

[Surferdad]

Phantom, I do not consider Dallas a threat to Boston. 
I do agree about healthy Knicks and Pacers in the East.

I only added Dallas because they did make the Finals and who knows, maybe they find a way to add another solid player to aid Kyrie and Luka?

I personally think OKC is the team to beat in the next few years from the West. Yes Denver is a threat. But that OKC team is young and rising. Reminds me of those "bridgey Celtics" which included the growth of Tatum and Brown. They got experience and also suffered some tough losses but it built to this moment culminating in Banner 18. And if OKC can add another big man (Hartenstein or Valenciunas) along with the Caruso addition, then yeah. OKC was the 1 seed last year. Spurs with Wemby still seem a year or two away. Minnesota I think needs to make an impactful move to be in OKC's class because sorry, I'm not a huge KAT fan and he can't be their #2.

I just think the East is riddled with injury prone players, mediocre teams AND a handful of stars who are getting up there in age. I mean I didn't realize Embiid is already 30 years old. Butler, Giannis, etc. are getting a bit older. The West is the conference stacked with the young up and coming talent (Doncic, Wemby, SGA, Ant, Morant, etc.)

That?s the move they need to make to get bigger. This should make them the team to beat in the West.