Jaylen Brown appreciation thread

[Atzar]

Jason Kidd on Jaylen Brown: “Jaylen’s their best player. Looking at what he does defensively, he picked up Luka full court, got to the free throw line, he did everything and that’s what your best player does.”

That‘a gamesmanship by Kidd, IMO. Def trying to throw both Tatum & Brown off their games.  Goading Tatum to go hero mode to prove himself & Brown to force matters and justify the label.

Might be an interesting strategy if these two hadn’t spent their whole careers having to listen to this crap already.

They know how to handle their business at this point. 

[Donoghus]

Seriously, my only complaint with him is his free throw shooting. Besides that, he’s been fantastic these playoffs. No question in My mind that he’s been the best player on the team thought out the playoffs.

Interesting thst you think the guy that averages the most points, most rebounds, and most assists is not the best player on the team. Especially when many of the advanced metrics also favor that player.

I said best player on the team in the playoffs. Apparently I’m not alone as he won eastern conference MVP. Do you believe Tatum has been better in the playoffs? Brown has been playing great defense, making big shots at key moments, even blocking shots.I don’t really understand all the advice stats, but Tatums Fg and 3 pt fg percentage is the Lowest of any of the regular rotational players.
I’m not knocking anyone else on the team. Just my personal opinion

I know what you said. Tatum is leading the team in points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs (he did in the ECF as well). He is doing that as the focus of the opposing team when the C's are on offense.  He is playing the 2nd best defense on the team (Jrue has been better).  Tatum is not shooting all that well (mostly just from 3), but he has been pretty clearly Boston's best player in the playoffs. It isn't really all that close either.

Well, if you say it, it must be true. Apparently the people who vote for MVP and I don’t know anything. Thanks for correcting us

Yeah, attempting to say something definitively doesn’t make it so. Saying that “it isn’t really all that close either” is just a nonsensical statement based on what has transpired these playoffs so far.

But I also think we also have pretty good idea what this is really about, don’t we?

It is nonsensical to say that the guy averaging more points, nearly double the rebounds, and more than double the assists of the other guy is clearly the best player. That also happens to be the same guy that has more WS, more WS/48, a better OBPM, DBPM, VORP.  Tatum by basically every metric except 3 point shooting has been a clearly better player than Brown. It isn't nonsensical or crazy. It is obvious.

If it was obvious and “not really that close either”, Tatum would’ve won the ECF MVP vote 9-0.

What is obvious is that Tatum is the most important & most talented player on the Celtics. What isn’t obvious is this is stupidity of an idea that Jaylen doesn’t impact winning or that Tatum has clearly been the Celtics best player these particular playoffs. 

[KGs Knee]

This is really just such a strange argument, to me. I couldn't care less which one of Tatum or Brown get the lions share of the credit. They're both fantastic players and we need them both playing well to win.

I do think Brown has been more consistent in the playoffs, but I also think Tatum simply is held to a higher standard. Pretty much every single metric shows Tatum has had a bigger impact, and does so while being the primary focus of the opposing defense. Brown has shot the ball better but he should given the difference in defensive attention Tatum and Brown receive.

Jason Kidd can say what he wants, but I suspect it's just gamesmanship. We'll see if he really believes it by making Brown the primary focus of their defense. I'd welcome that because that will almost assuredly result in Tatum having a huge game. My message to Kidd would be, "I dare you".

I guess I don't understand why there even needs to be an argument about who is better, or been playing better. But for those that think Brown has been, what are you basing that on? Literally, all Brown has in his favor is his shooting percentages. In terms of generating total offense, Tatum is a good bit ahead when you factor in the amount of point Tatum generates from his assists.

Anyways, I'm glad to have both of them.

[Roy H.]

I think there are two arguments:

1.  Tatum is / has been better than Brown; and

2.  Brown doesn't impact winning games

The first argument is supportable, the second one isn't. 

[KGs Knee]

Brown doesn't impact winning games

Yeah, that's just silly. Yeesh...

[keevsnick]

I think there are two arguments:

1.  Tatum is / has been better than Brown; and

2.  Brown doesn't impact winning games

The first argument is supportable, the second one isn't.

Two things can be true I think. Tatum is the better player, but its close enough that some nights Brown will play better. Thought he was in game 1. That said if I could make a bet that says "Tatum will be the Celtics bets player tonight" before every game I would, because he's more often than not the best player on the team. Probably will be in game 2.

[radiohead]

https://x.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1799587206736011379

Jrue unfortunately took Kidd’s bait. Maybe he was talking specifically about game 1 but I’m sure the talk shows would make a big deal out of this. Good thing JT and JB knows what’s going on.

[Phantom255x]

https://x.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1799587206736011379

Jrue unfortunately took Kidd’s bait. Maybe he was talking specifically about game 1 but I’m sure the talk shows would make a big deal out of this. Good thing JT and JB knows what’s going on.

Dang it he took the bait

[radiohead]

https://youtu.be/nwMexBjvGPA?si=03-t1NnykWG_T1SD

This has to be one of JT’s best interviews. He looks ready to win a chip.

[SHAQATTACK]

Keep it going JB !

[Vermont Green]

This may be a strategically planned attempt by Kidd to get into the Celtics head or it could just be Kidd shooting off his mouth, I don't know and don't care.  Doesn't seem like it is going to work to me.

Assuming this was an actual strategy by Kidd, it tells me that they are going to continue to blitz/collapse on Tatum and they want Tatum to try and take that on more vs. passing, in an attempt to show whose best.  I don't think this is going to fool anyone. 

Tatum and Celtics are going to keep doing what they are doing.  Brown will keep getting opportunities.  We need him to keep playing well within the system.  I suspect he will.

[green_bballers13]

Seriously, my only complaint with him is his free throw shooting. Besides that, he’s been fantastic these playoffs. No question in My mind that he’s been the best player on the team thought out the playoffs.

Interesting thst you think the guy that averages the most points, most rebounds, and most assists is not the best player on the team. Especially when many of the advanced metrics also favor that player.

I said best player on the team in the playoffs. Apparently I’m not alone as he won eastern conference MVP. Do you believe Tatum has been better in the playoffs? Brown has been playing great defense, making big shots at key moments, even blocking shots.I don’t really understand all the advice stats, but Tatums Fg and 3 pt fg percentage is the Lowest of any of the regular rotational players.
I’m not knocking anyone else on the team. Just my personal opinion

I know what you said. Tatum is leading the team in points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs (he did in the ECF as well). He is doing that as the focus of the opposing team when the C's are on offense.  He is playing the 2nd best defense on the team (Jrue has been better).  Tatum is not shooting all that well (mostly just from 3), but he has been pretty clearly Boston's best player in the playoffs. It isn't really all that close either.

How do your posts belong in the JB appreciation thread?

[Vermont Green]

Looking more at this ON/OFF +/- thing.  The idea is to normalize everything to 100 Possessions.  That is fair.  You could normalize to 36 min or something else, but 100 Possessions is fine.

In Game 1, the BOS overall team had a net rating of +20.4 (there were only 93 possessions in the game so the 18 point win gets adjusted a little).  So the theory is that for any player that had an individual net rating lower than +20.4 would be an indication that the team was better when that player was off the court.   The individual net ratings for Game 1 were as follows:

Hauser             +53.1
Holiday            +30.8
Porzingis          +29.6
Tatum              +23.2

Team               +20.4

Brown              +17.8
Pritchard          +17.1
Horford            +16.3
White                +5.9

I didn't bother with the garbage time guys.  So as you would expect, half the regular minutes players were above the team NRTG and half were below.  One game is a small sample size so there is some distortion. 

For the entire playoffs, the team is +11.5 NRTG.  Hauser, Horford, Holiday, and Tatum are the top 4 above the team line (in that order), Porzingis, White, Brown, Pritchard, Kornet are below the line (again ignoring deep bench players).

If you go by this, Hauser, Horford, and Holiday are all better in the playoffs than Tatum, Porzingis, and Brown.  It makes no sense.  Extrapolating to 100 possession for players who don't play much (like Hauser) will amplify their impact but Hauser is way up and Pritchard is not.

[Moranis]

Looking more at this ON/OFF +/- thing.  The idea is to normalize everything to 100 Possessions.  That is fair.  You could normalize to 36 min or something else, but 100 Possessions is fine.

In Game 1, the BOS overall team had a net rating of +20.4 (there were only 93 possessions in the game so the 18 point win gets adjusted a little).  So the theory is that for any player that had an individual net rating lower than +20.4 would be an indication that the team was better when that player was off the court.   The individual net ratings for Game 1 were as follows:

Hauser             +53.1
Holiday            +30.8
Porzingis          +29.6
Tatum              +23.2

Team               +20.4

Brown              +17.8
Pritchard          +17.1
Horford            +16.3
White                +5.9

I didn't bother with the garbage time guys.  So as you would expect, half the regular minutes players were above the team NRTG and half were below.  One game is a small sample size so there is some distortion. 

For the entire playoffs, the team is +11.5 NRTG.  Hauser, Horford, Holiday, and Tatum are the top 4 above the team line (in that order), Porzingis, White, Brown, Pritchard, Kornet are below the line (again ignoring deep bench players).

If you go by this, Hauser, Horford, and Holiday are all better in the playoffs than Tatum, Porzingis, and Brown.  It makes no sense.  Extrapolating to 100 possession for players who don't play much (like Hauser) will amplify their impact but Hauser is way up and Pritchard is not.

which is why it has to be used with players that actually drive the numbers.  Bit players don't move the numbers they orbit the players that do.  Holiday is a bit harder to gauge since he plays a ton of minutes, but he does function mostly like a role player in touches, usage, etc.  Hauser has big numbers because he plays more with Tatum while Pritchard's are much lower because he plays more with Brown.  Jrue with Tatum, White with Brown.  Al with Tatum, KP with Brown.  The two best players in the team drive the numbers for everyone else.

[blink]

man all of this trying to rationalize your way to believing oddball advanced stats because you dont like a player is just idiotic.

How about we just trust our eyes and our understanding of the game?   JB has been a beast in these playoffs and for all of this year.   JB contributed massively to winning during this playoff run.