2024 NBA Season and Playoffs

[jambr380]

We traded a lot to get Holiday (as I mentioned with the top 10 pick earlier); there’s no way we just plan to let him go. He is guaranteed $39M next year, so if we extend him, you need to include that amount in the extension.

With no extension and just playing it out next year, what would he really be worth on the open market at 35 years old? $18-20M? That would put a 3 year extension this offseason between $75-80M or $25-27M/yr.

I think we have to do it (or we need to trade him), but it’s absolutely even more essential that we extend White. Please let him accept what we can give him

It's almost be better for us to have him pick up his option and then re-sign him later to a cheaper deal. We're better off being way over the second apron for one year than being slightly over it for 2 or 3.

Well, the owners might disagree with that because of how the luxury tax increases, but they should accept a year of lower profits to avoid team-building penalties.

Yeah, next season is pre-Tatum extension, too, so there is some merit to having him pick up the option. But I'd really rather not let him go to UFA either. There are always teams like the Rockets (with FVV) or frankly the Sixers (with Al) who will pay a premium to bring in a reliable vet.

[Goldstar88]

Good game on TNT between 76ers/Nuggets.

Thunder/Clippers to follow.

The shot making has been really good, but also not a whole lot of defense. Curious if this will settle down a bit in the second half or it will end up over 300 total points

Agreed 

[Moranis]

How the heck did the GSWs lose to an epically decimated Grizzlies team?

Disappointing that we gave up a likely top 10 pick in the Jrue trade. I really want GSW to figure it out and make the playoffs so the pick is a lot worse

I’m not too worried about the pick, myself.  We’re a better team this year with Jrue than we would have been with Brogdan and that pick, and Portland presumably factored in Golden State’s potential for collapse into the value of that pick.  It’s Memphis who really should be kicking themselves for including that pick in the Smart deal.

It could sting a little more if Jrue walks, but I’m betting he signs an extension before too long.

He's 33 - do we really want to sign him to a significant extension if we don't go all the way this season?

Yes, we do.  There’s obviously a dollar amount that would make it problematic, but he’s pretty much the same player he’s been the past couple of years, only with the ball a bit less because we have so many players to give the ball to.  It’s not like he’s suffering from a major decline at this point, and he’s been generally healthy.  My hope is we’ll have a 3-year extension for $90-105 million.

How many point guards taking up that approximate percentage of the cap have been serious contributors to a championship-calibre team?  It's an honest question, I really don't know.

I would say it’s not the cap but the percentage of team salary that matters, or maybe with the new CBA the percentage up to the second apron.  But for sure Curry and Holiday himself did the two years before last, and without doing a salary deep dive of the Nuggets I’m betting Jamal Murray did as well.  So it’s certainly not something that per se inhibits a championship run.

The percentage of cap and percentage of salary should be equivalent terms, really - if the ownership has issues with paying extra tax or anything of the sort, they should sell the team.

I think Moranis's point is more to how I feel intuitively, though - given a finite amount of money to be spent, I don't know if Holiday is (or should be) particularly high in the pecking order. No idea if that has any bearing in reality, though - I don't know enough about the ins and outs.

But, all numbers via Spotrac - Holiday was 19.4% of the Buck's cap in 2022, and Jamaal Murray was 18.66% of the cap last season (Porter was 18.23).

For completion: if he opts in on his player option next season (for $37m) he will be at 18.75% of the team's cap. Right now he's at that 19.68%

And I would say that Curry is going to be the exception that proves the rule for a long while when it comes to nearly anything related to point guards, success, and salary.

Murray was the 2nd player and Porter the 3rd. Jrue on the Bucks was the 2nd or 3rd player.  He is the 4th or 5th player on the Celtics.  You can't pay 19% of your cap to your 4th or 5th best player, especially when in 25-26 Tatum and Brown will both well over 50 million and +30% of the cap each, you still have Porzingis at just over 30 million, presumably will have White in the Porzingis range on a new contract.  Signing Jrue to an extension that pays him in the 30 million range for that season when he will be 35, just isn't sustainable. 

Boston has this year and next year and even next year with Brown's extension kicked in, it will be tough to maintain the payroll.  That is why I believe Boston just needs to throw all the chips in this year and use the TPE, trade bench players and draft picks, etc. Give the team the absolute best chance to win the title this year and worry about the money next summer.  Go big and do it now.  It is also why, if they don't win the title this summer, they need to look realistically at moving off of Brown.  His money is just so massive that it might make sense to turn that salary slot into 2 or 3 players that make less combined than him, but can help fill out the roster.

[Celtics2021]

How the heck did the GSWs lose to an epically decimated Grizzlies team?

Disappointing that we gave up a likely top 10 pick in the Jrue trade. I really want GSW to figure it out and make the playoffs so the pick is a lot worse

I’m not too worried about the pick, myself.  We’re a better team this year with Jrue than we would have been with Brogdan and that pick, and Portland presumably factored in Golden State’s potential for collapse into the value of that pick.  It’s Memphis who really should be kicking themselves for including that pick in the Smart deal.

It could sting a little more if Jrue walks, but I’m betting he signs an extension before too long.

He's 33 - do we really want to sign him to a significant extension if we don't go all the way this season?

Yes, we do.  There’s obviously a dollar amount that would make it problematic, but he’s pretty much the same player he’s been the past couple of years, only with the ball a bit less because we have so many players to give the ball to.  It’s not like he’s suffering from a major decline at this point, and he’s been generally healthy.  My hope is we’ll have a 3-year extension for $90-105 million.

How many point guards taking up that approximate percentage of the cap have been serious contributors to a championship-calibre team?  It's an honest question, I really don't know.

I would say it’s not the cap but the percentage of team salary that matters, or maybe with the new CBA the percentage up to the second apron.  But for sure Curry and Holiday himself did the two years before last, and without doing a salary deep dive of the Nuggets I’m betting Jamal Murray did as well.  So it’s certainly not something that per se inhibits a championship run.

The percentage of cap and percentage of salary should be equivalent terms, really - if the ownership has issues with paying extra tax or anything of the sort, they should sell the team.

I think Moranis's point is more to how I feel intuitively, though - given a finite amount of money to be spent, I don't know if Holiday is (or should be) particularly high in the pecking order. No idea if that has any bearing in reality, though - I don't know enough about the ins and outs.

But, all numbers via Spotrac - Holiday was 19.4% of the Buck's cap in 2022, and Jamaal Murray was 18.66% of the cap last season (Porter was 18.23).

For completion: if he opts in on his player option next season (for $37m) he will be at 18.75% of the team's cap. Right now he's at that 19.68%

And I would say that Curry is going to be the exception that proves the rule for a long while when it comes to nearly anything related to point guards, success, and salary.

Murray was the 2nd player and Porter the 3rd. Jrue on the Bucks was the 2nd or 3rd player.  He is the 4th or 5th player on the Celtics.  You can't pay 19% of your cap to your 4th or 5th best player, especially when in 25-26 Tatum and Brown will both well over 50 million and +30% of the cap each, you still have Porzingis at just over 30 million, presumably will have White in the Porzingis range on a new contract.  Signing Jrue to an extension that pays him in the 30 million range for that season when he will be 35, just isn't sustainable. 

Boston has this year and next year and even next year with Brown's extension kicked in, it will be tough to maintain the payroll.  That is why I believe Boston just needs to throw all the chips in this year and use the TPE, trade bench players and draft picks, etc. Give the team the absolute best chance to win the title this year and worry about the money next summer.  Go big and do it now.  It is also why, if they don't win the title this summer, they need to look realistically at moving off of Brown.  His money is just so massive that it might make sense to turn that salary slot into 2 or 3 players that make less combined than him, but can help fill out the roster.

Right now the Celtics are paying half of their roster the minimum.   They absolutely could pay 9 players the minimum and keep their top 5 at salaries of $28-30 million for KP, Holiday, and White and the max deals for Tatum and Brown in a couple of seasons while staying below the second apron, so it just matters that you get the right guys on the minimum.  If your top 5 is quality enough, you can mask a lot of flaws. 

And with the destruction of the taxpayer MLE, not to mention the MLE also being used for trades, you’re going to see more useful vets take the minimum for a year if they’re offered a role on a title contender.  There’s a certain class of players that was hurt by the new CBA, and it’s going to be the rotation players on their third contracts, which are just the type of players you want if you’re filling out a top-heavy rosted.

[Who]

It is funny seeing a team with three scorers as good as Durant, D Booker and B Beal where Grayson Allen or Eric Gordon ends up being the leading scorer in that game.

[SparzWizard]

It is funny seeing a team with three scorers as good as Durant, D Booker and B Beal where Grayson Allen or Eric Gordon ends up being the leading scorer in that game.

Maybe the real Big 3 in that team is Allen, Gordon, and Nurkic 😂

[RMO]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Indiana is sending two 2024 first-rounders and a 2026 first to the Raptors, sources said. New Orleans sends a second-round pick to Indiana.
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
7m
BREAKING: The Indiana Pacers are finalizing a trade to acquire All-Star F Pascal Siakam in a deal that will send Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora and three first-round picks to the Toronto Raptors. New Orleans will be a third team in deal, sending Kira Lewis to the Raptors.

[jpotter33]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Indiana is sending two 2024 first-rounders and a 2026 first to the Raptors, sources said. New Orleans sends a second-round pick to Indiana.
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
7m
BREAKING: The Indiana Pacers are finalizing a trade to acquire All-Star F Pascal Siakam in a deal that will send Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora and three first-round picks to the Toronto Raptors. New Orleans will be a third team in deal, sending Kira Lewis to the Raptors.

Interesting trade. Good haul for Toronto given the free agency risks.


For Indy, I think this makes them better, but they’re still clearly a step below the contenders. They’re a little better defensively with Siakam, but they also sent out a lot of defense - especially on the perimeter - in Brown. Siakam is also better offensively than Brown, but that’s not really what they needed.

Feels like alot to give up to only make marginal improvement and push you to the spot of a mid-tier playoff team.

[Who]

So Indy would look like

G: Haliburton, McConnell
G: Hield, Mathurin, Nembhard
F: Nesmith
F: Siakam, Toppin
C: M Turner, Jalen Smith

They also have the rookies Ben Sheppard and Jarrace Walker.

It would be nice if they could make a 2nd trade and move Hield or Mathurin for a legit SF. Rebalance their roster. Move Nesmith back to the bench.

[Birdman]

So Indy would look like

G: Haliburton, McConnell
G: Hield, Mathurin, Nembhard
F: Nesmith
F: Siakam, Toppin
C: M Turner, Jalen Smith

They also have the rookies Ben Sheppard and Jarrace Walker.

Pretty good looking team, also have Isaiah Jackson

[Birdman]

What Toronto lineup look like now?

[Who]

And Toronto would look like:

G: Quickley, Schroder
G: RJ Barrett, G Trent Jr
F: Bruce Brown, McDaniels
F: S Barnes, Boucher
C: Poeltl, Thad Young, J Porter

They also got Nwora in the deal. Draft pick Gradey Dick. Otto Porter. Garrett Temple. Ron Harper Jr.

I like that Scottie Barnes is at PF. I believe that is his best position.

[jambr380]

Is Indy sending anybody else out? The salaries don’t come close to evening out. I saw that NOP are including Kira Lewis and a 2nd - is this just a salary dump?

[Celtics2021]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Indiana is sending two 2024 first-rounders and a 2026 first to the Raptors, sources said. New Orleans sends a second-round pick to Indiana.
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
7m
BREAKING: The Indiana Pacers are finalizing a trade to acquire All-Star F Pascal Siakam in a deal that will send Bruce Brown, Jordan Nwora and three first-round picks to the Toronto Raptors. New Orleans will be a third team in deal, sending Kira Lewis to the Raptors.

Indiana still needs to send out $5 million more in salary, with that player presumably going to New Orleans.

[perks-a-beast]

I though the Raptors were just going to fade back in to irrelevancy for a long time but I really like these last two trades and the direction their team is heading in general.