Woj: Jrue to Celtics

[Vermont Green]

I am way late to this thread, I have been traveling.  Stunning trade.  I love Jrue Holiday the player, definitely an upgrade on Brogdon.  I really like Brogdon but I feel Holiday is better.  I probably never fully appreciated Holiday the player until I got to see him play in MIL in the big games vs. the Celtics and otherwise.  He is money.  I also love Marcus Smart but Holiday brings a lot of what I loved in Marcus but has a much more advanced offensive game.  Plus I can't wait to see Jrue Holiday play vs. MIL, he should bring some extra motivation.

As to the trade, it feels like an overpay (exactly what I was saying after the Derrick White trade).  I get that Rob Williams has durability issues and it is hard to expect that this season would suddenly be different for him, but the team weakness is now the big rotation.  Plus two firsts, that is a lot to give up.  I suspect that this is going to mean we play with 1 big as the primary line up, like last season.  But the 1-big line up in 2022-23 was not as good as the conventional 2-big line up in 2021-22.  I feel the ideal line up is:

Holiday
Brown
Tatum
Porzingis
Defense and Rebounding Center

Horford can be that center but I thought that having him be the third big, playing both PF and C, was the ideal role for him.  Either way, whether it is the bigger line up with Horford or the smaller line up with White, it is a really strong line up, the Celtics are solid 1-6.  Then there is a massive drop off to Brissett, Pritchard, Hauser, Stevens, Mykhailiuk, Kornet, Walsh, (Wenyen Gabriel?).  None of the 7-13/14 guys are even certain to be good enough to be in the playoff rotation.

The second line up based on my preferred bigger line up is:

Pritchard
White
Hauser
Brissett
Kornet

Pritchard, White, and Hauser (plus maybe Stevens in the mix) are all fine enough for regular season for the guard/wing slots.  The problem is that Brisset is not really a PF (even though he is taller than Grant), but may be serviceable as a PF/Swing, and then we have Kornet who is better suited for 3rd unit.

Bottom line, love getting Jrue Holiday but the trade created a need.  We need a solid bench or staring level PF/C type player to replace Rob Williams.  There is still time to do that, it doesn't even need to be for the start of the season, but the sooner the better.  New players need time to acclamate. 

[Roy H.]

I just saw this soundbite:

"I've tried to get Jrue Holiday on the Celtics since I've been the coach," Stevens said. "I know I would go into Danny (Ainge)'s office every year and be like, 'Hey, can we get Jrue Holiday somehow?'"

Sounds like BS and I are in lockstep on this one.  To me, he's the ideal PG to put next to an "offensive engine" that plays wing.

[tazzmaniac]

Listening to the radio they made a good point. This was as much about countering Milwaukee as it also was keeping Jrue away from Miami/sixers

Now you are head and shoulders above everyone but Milwaukee. Had sixers/Miami got Jrue you are looking at an absolute slog of a playoffs. Maybe you don't even make it through.

Now you at least have to think the inevitable matchup is Milwaukee/Boston on paper

I'm really curious what the Sixers offered, and what their analysis was on Jrue vs. Harden.

I doubt the Sixers offer was anywhere close.  The problem is Harden has little value to any team. 
If the Sixers were being offered anything close to Timelord, Brogdon and 2 1sts, Harden would have been long gone.  They'll probably have to settle for something like Brogdon, salary filler and a 1st for Harden and maybe not even that good. 

[Phantom255x]

Still hope we can find a way to add a 7th/8th man (preferably a big) on the roster

Once they can do that, I'll be ecstatic overall. Our bench definitely is thinner though especially the frontcourt

[PAOBoston]

I am way late to this thread, I have been traveling.  Stunning trade.  I love Jrue Holiday the player, definitely an upgrade on Brogdon.  I really like Brogdon but I feel Holiday is better.  I probably never fully appreciated Holiday the player until I got to see him play in MIL in the big games vs. the Celtics and otherwise.  He is money.  I also love Marcus Smart but Holiday brings a lot of what I loved in Marcus but has a much more advanced offensive game.  Plus I can't wait to see Jrue Holiday play vs. MIL, he should bring some extra motivation.

As to the trade, it feels like an overpay (exactly what I was saying after the Derrick White trade).  I get that Rob Williams has durability issues and it is hard to expect that this season would suddenly be different for him, but the team weakness is now the big rotation.  Plus two firsts, that is a lot to give up.  I suspect that this is going to mean we play with 1 big as the primary line up, like last season.  But the 1-big line up in 2022-23 was not as good as the conventional 2-big line up in 2021-22.  I feel the ideal line up is:

Holiday
Brown
Tatum
Porzingis
Defense and Rebounding Center

Horford can be that center but I thought that having him be the third big, playing both PF and C, was the ideal role for him.  Either way, whether it is the bigger line up with Horford or the smaller line up with White, it is a really strong line up, the Celtics are solid 1-6.  Then there is a massive drop off to Brissett, Pritchard, Hauser, Stevens, Mykhailiuk, Kornet, Walsh, (Wenyen Gabriel?).  None of the 7-13/14 guys are even certain to be good enough to be in the playoff rotation.

The second line up based on my preferred bigger line up is:

Pritchard
White
Hauser
Brissett
Kornet

Pritchard, White, and Hauser (plus maybe Stevens in the mix) are all fine enough for regular season for the guard/wing slots.  The problem is that Brisset is not really a PF (even though he is taller than Grant), but may be serviceable as a PF/Swing, and then we have Kornet who is better suited for 3rd unit.

Bottom line, love getting Jrue Holiday but the trade created a need.  We need a solid bench or staring level PF/C type player to replace Rob Williams.  There is still time to do that, it doesn't even need to be for the start of the season, but the sooner the better.  New players need time to acclamate.

TP. I agree 1000%.

[A Future of Stevens]

Still hope we can find a way to add a 7th/8th man (preferably a big) on the roster

Once they can do that, I'll be ecstatic overall. Our bench definitely is thinner though especially the frontcourt

Vecenie thinks the Celtics should call the Thunder about Jereiah Robinson Earle. He likes the fit as a switchy rebounder that hustles like crazy.
I think Noel would be a nice grab. Gives us a discount Timelord role at this stage.

[footey]

Would not be surprised to see the Houston Rockets make a strong bid to acquire Rob Williams from the Blazers.  Ime loved the guy, and would fit well into their team needs as a defensive oriented center.

[footey]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

[Donoghus]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Funny how the incompetence still got them on the cusp of the Finals.

Mazz certainly had his faults last season but I also put a lot of the blame on the players.  They were soft at times, lacked killer instinct, looked rudderless on the court at times.  Coming up short was a lot of self-inflicted stuff from the players. 

Stevens seemingly just remedied a bunch of that crap.

[Kernewek]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Funny how the incompetence still got them on the cusp of the Finals.

Mazz certainly had his faults last season but I also put a lot of the blame on the players.  They were soft at times, lacked killer instinct, looked rudderless on the court at times.  Coming up short was a lot of self-inflicted stuff from the players. 

Stevens seemingly just remedied a bunch of that crap.

That's the hope.

On the other hand, as we've seen with the coaching threads over the last few seasons, the fact that someone can diagnose a problem should not give any weight to their proposed solution, or indeed the idea that there is any solution to be found.

[Vermont Green]

I just saw this soundbite:

"I've tried to get Jrue Holiday on the Celtics since I've been the coach," Stevens said. "I know I would go into Danny (Ainge)'s office every year and be like, 'Hey, can we get Jrue Holiday somehow?'"

Sounds like BS and I are in lockstep on this one.  To me, he's the ideal PG to put next to an "offensive engine" that plays wing.

So far, Brad's calls on core rotation additions have been pretty good.  I am thinking of getting Derrick White and bringing back Horford.  Brogdon was really good too, really worked out as a player.  There is always some risk with bringing in a new player but Jrue Holiday seems like about as close to a sure bet as you can get.  Then there is Porzingis, who has some risk, durability and otherwise.

Pretty good track record so far.

[Roy H.]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Who took over a team that reached the NBA Finals, didn't lose anybody of note, and added Malcolm Brogdon? 

It's possible to win in spite of Joe, but he's not in the top 29 of NBA coaches.

[Kernewek]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Who took over a team that reached the NBA Finals, didn't lose anybody of note, and added Malcolm Brogdon? 

It's possible to win in spite of Joe, but he's not in the top 29 of NBA coaches.

Careful, your attorney past is showing. It's been pretty clear from this thread that, at the bare minimum, we 'lost' Timelord last season, both in literal time off and in how he looked on the floor. But that's neither here nor there, since this isn't really a Mazz thread, is it?

[Phantom255x]

Still hope we can find a way to add a 7th/8th man (preferably a big) on the roster

Once they can do that, I'll be ecstatic overall. Our bench definitely is thinner though especially the frontcourt

Vecenie thinks the Celtics should call the Thunder about Jereiah Robinson Earle. He likes the fit as a switchy rebounder that hustles like crazy.
I think Noel would be a nice grab. Gives us a discount Timelord role at this stage.

I would love Noel for the same reason you said. I'd also like to think being an MA-Native and on a contending team like BOS might motivate him a bit more as well

[BitterJim]

If this team stays healthy.....

If this team stays healthy ........... we still have an incompetent head coach.

Who coached his team to top 2 offensive and defensive rating. Who won more regular season games than any other Celtic coach (Doc, Brad, Ime) since 2009, who took us to one game short of reaching the NBA Finals, largely because his best player sprained his ankle and his 2nd best player had his worst game ever.  That coach???

Who took over a team that reached the NBA Finals, didn't lose anybody of note, and added Malcolm Brogdon? 

It's possible to win in spite of Joe, but he's not in the top 29 of NBA coaches.

That might be the nicest thing I've seen anyone say about Jason Kidd in the past couple of years