Author Topic: Woj: Jrue to Celtics  (Read 116757 times)

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Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #165 on: October 01, 2023, 04:28:57 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Rob Williams regular season played games:

18-19: 32
19-20: 29
20-21: 52
21-22: 61
22-23: 25

Total: 209 games played out of 410.

He is hurt every season for long stretches.

The Celtics have not played 410 games in the past 5 seasons.
I'm bitter.

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #166 on: October 01, 2023, 04:29:13 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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One of my concerns of Brad when he took over the GM role, was that he may have been too close to the players and may be reluctant to trade them. Apparently, he is all about winning and will do anything to get there. Hey trader Danny, hold my beer.

I legit thought Smart would never get traded for as long as Brad was calling the shots. He seemed like Brad’s guy

This makes me wonder, if the originally reported potential trade earlier this summer had sent out Brogdon instead of Smart...

Would Brad have traded Smart/Williams to Portland for Jrue?  Or Smart, end of the bench guys, and picks for Jrue?

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #167 on: October 01, 2023, 04:29:45 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Rob Williams regular season played games:

18-19: 32
19-20: 29
20-21: 52
21-22: 61
22-23: 25

Total: 209 games played out of 410.

He is hurt every season for long stretches.
This is why I’m glad he’s gone, can’t be depended on..think Dwight Howard got anything left??

Well right now we have $1.333m of space before we hit the second apron, assuming that Blake and Kabengele's cap holds ($3.2m) come off our books when Blake retires and Kabengele signs elsewhere...so we would have to fit both Gabriel and Dwight into that $1.3m. So we would probably have to get rid of someone else...maybe Banton or Brissett?? But then we would be short wings  :angel:



Then again, as Phantom said, we're talking about insurance players here...Brad has decided to dole out the $$$ to players he expects will be playing, not players to sit the bench as insurance. We probably ascribe more importance to the 9-12 spots on the roster than they do.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #168 on: October 01, 2023, 04:32:19 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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The only unforgivable part of the deal to me is the 2029 pick. We were already giving up two very good players - not just salary filler like Marcus Morris/Robert Covington. LAC was willing to give up a 1st for Brogdon and Rob Williams was one of the best value deals in the league.

As for that 2029 pick, it limits our ability to trade future 1sts as we can really only trade two 1sts in another deal. It would have been immensely better if we could have just traded our 2024 1sts - and Brad has been pretty consistent with that in his recent deals (Horford, White, Brogdon). We were already giving up a hefty package for Jrue. It would have only been fair if we could have chosen the picks.

I guess the 'significant gap' between the two sides was entirely made up by the Celtics in this case. Jrue will hopefully be an exciting and productive player for us - just seems like we got pretty washed in a deal for the first time since like Antoine for LaFrentz.

TP. I can understand the logic in trading two good but oft-injured guys for an older borderline all-star. I'm not super-excited about it, but I understand.

But the potentially valuable GS pick AND one of our own?

Was there some sort of bidding war going on? Maybe Miami offered Herro +2 firsts? It's the only thing that makes sense.

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #169 on: October 01, 2023, 04:34:25 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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The only unforgivable part of the deal to me is the 2029 pick. We were already giving up two very good players - not just salary filler like Marcus Morris/Robert Covington. LAC was willing to give up a 1st for Brogdon and Rob Williams was one of the best value deals in the league.

As for that 2029 pick, it limits our ability to trade future 1sts as we can really only trade two 1sts in another deal. It would have been immensely better if we could have just traded our 2024 1sts - and Brad has been pretty consistent with that in his recent deals (Horford, White, Brogdon). We were already giving up a hefty package for Jrue. It would have only been fair if we could have chosen the picks.

I guess the 'significant gap' between the two sides was entirely made up by the Celtics in this case. Jrue will hopefully be an exciting and productive player for us - just seems like we got pretty washed in a deal for the first time since like Antoine for LaFrentz.

TP. I can understand the logic in trading two good but oft-injured guys for an older borderline all-star. I'm not super-excited about it, but I understand.

But the potentially valuable GS pick AND one of our own?

Was there some sort of bidding war going on? Maybe Miami offered Herro +2 firsts? It's the only thing that makes sense.

If Jrue to Miami then the C's will have their hands full with not just the Bucks but the Heat too. We don't want anymore trouble-- Jrue to the C's basically makes the C's favorites to knock out the Bucks in the ECF. MIA loses a lot of players and did not improve.


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Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #170 on: October 01, 2023, 04:38:07 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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The only unforgivable part of the deal to me is the 2029 pick. We were already giving up two very good players - not just salary filler like Marcus Morris/Robert Covington. LAC was willing to give up a 1st for Brogdon and Rob Williams was one of the best value deals in the league.

As for that 2029 pick, it limits our ability to trade future 1sts as we can really only trade two 1sts in another deal. It would have been immensely better if we could have just traded our 2024 1sts - and Brad has been pretty consistent with that in his recent deals (Horford, White, Brogdon). We were already giving up a hefty package for Jrue. It would have only been fair if we could have chosen the picks.

I guess the 'significant gap' between the two sides was entirely made up by the Celtics in this case. Jrue will hopefully be an exciting and productive player for us - just seems like we got pretty washed in a deal for the first time since like Antoine for LaFrentz.

TP. I can understand the logic in trading two good but oft-injured guys for an older borderline all-star. I'm not super-excited about it, but I understand.

But the potentially valuable GS pick AND one of our own?

Was there some sort of bidding war going on? Maybe Miami offered Herro +2 firsts? It's the only thing that makes sense.

If Jrue to Miami then the C's will have their hands full with not just the Bucks but the Heat too. We don't want anymore trouble-- Jrue to the C's basically makes the C's favorites to knock out the Bucks in the ECF. MIA loses a lot of players and did not improve.

This time 100

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #171 on: October 01, 2023, 04:38:15 PM »

Offline Atzar

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The only unforgivable part of the deal to me is the 2029 pick. We were already giving up two very good players - not just salary filler like Marcus Morris/Robert Covington. LAC was willing to give up a 1st for Brogdon and Rob Williams was one of the best value deals in the league.

As for that 2029 pick, it limits our ability to trade future 1sts as we can really only trade two 1sts in another deal. It would have been immensely better if we could have just traded our 2024 1sts - and Brad has been pretty consistent with that in his recent deals (Horford, White, Brogdon). We were already giving up a hefty package for Jrue. It would have only been fair if we could have chosen the picks.

I guess the 'significant gap' between the two sides was entirely made up by the Celtics in this case. Jrue will hopefully be an exciting and productive player for us - just seems like we got pretty washed in a deal for the first time since like Antoine for LaFrentz.

TP. I can understand the logic in trading two good but oft-injured guys for an older borderline all-star. I'm not super-excited about it, but I understand.

But the potentially valuable GS pick AND one of our own?

Was there some sort of bidding war going on? Maybe Miami offered Herro +2 firsts? It's the only thing that makes sense.

It was reported that many teams were interested in acquiring Holiday.  The customary grain of salt applies to all 'reports' nowadays, but it does appear likely that there were other serious suitors who we needed to outbid.

I do think the price is high, but I'm generally okay with it.  Acquiring worthwhile players is supposed to hurt. 

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #172 on: October 01, 2023, 04:40:28 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.
Your continued equating of Holiday to Smart is just craziness! Holiday is better at literally everything
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #173 on: October 01, 2023, 04:51:41 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.
Your continued equating of Holiday to Smart is just craziness! Holiday is better at literally everything
Aside from raising his performance during the post-season, sure. And he's never anchored a league-best defense from the point (even though he's a great defender).

Someone else here said it best - Holiday is a much more consistent deep threat, and there's going to be less fear about having a possession end up with him taking a three than there was with Marcus. You could also argue that bringing in Porzingis alleviates our offensive malaise, as well.

Reading the thread I think it's interesting that there are some 'defensively minded' posters who are thrilled that we've ejected the twin pillars of our defense in favour of more offensively-minded players over one off-season. At least we managed to keep Al 'The Husk' Horford as our starting center.

That's not to say it's possible that Timelord never gets healthy, Smart has already peaked, and our rotation somehow stays healthy enough to stomp all over everyone - but we feel very top-heavy at the 'mo and we're going to have quite a different presence on the court, I suspect.
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Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #174 on: October 01, 2023, 04:51:42 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.
Your continued equating of Holiday to Smart is just craziness! Holiday is better at literally everything

Agree 100 percent with this. Holiday is the best PG this group has had on both ends and in the locker room.

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2023, 05:00:49 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
Reading the thread I think it's interesting that there are some 'defensively minded' posters who are thrilled that we've ejected the twin pillars of our defense in favour of more offensively-minded players over one off-season.

Jrue is a better and more consistent defender than Smart, though.

And, is if fair to call Timelord a pillar when he's fairly unreliable at being available?

I think we paid too much, but I'm not all that worried about the defense degrading.


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Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #176 on: October 01, 2023, 05:08:38 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Would you trade Brogdon, Timelord, a 2024 GSW first & a 2029 unprotected first for Marcus Smart?

No? why would you do it for Jrue Holiday?

What will Jrue Holiday do as a 4th option that is so much more valuable than what Smart was doing for us?

Jrue is not going to have the touches / shot attempts to be a 17-20ppg 7-8apg guy here. Not unless they are coming at the expense of someone else's offense. His role is going to be much more similar to what Smart's role has been on offense in the playoffs over the last few seasons.
Your continued equating of Holiday to Smart is just craziness! Holiday is better at literally everything
Aside from raising his performance during the post-season, sure. And he's never anchored a league-best defense from the point (even though he's a great defender).

Someone else here said it best - Holiday is a much more consistent deep threat, and there's going to be less fear about having a possession end up with him taking a three than there was with Marcus. You could also argue that bringing in Porzingis alleviates our offensive malaise, as well.

Reading the thread I think it's interesting that there are some 'defensively minded' posters who are thrilled that we've ejected the twin pillars of our defense in favour of more offensively-minded players over one off-season. At least we managed to keep Al 'The Husk' Horford as our starting center.

That's not to say it's possible that Timelord never gets healthy, Smart has already peaked, and our rotation somehow stays healthy enough to stomp all over everyone - but we feel very top-heavy at the 'mo and we're going to have quite a different presence on the court, I suspect.
Jrue is a better defender than Smart (especially last season's iteration of Smart), and Williams - who I loved - was incredibly unreliable. I think pivoting towards more reliable guys is a good move.

Porzingis, despite all his health flaws, is more likely to stay on the floor than Rob I reckon. Doesn't change the game defensively as Rob does, but he is the best drop coverage defender in the NBA and defends the rim decently. No slouch.

Turning Smart, Williams 3, Williams & Brogdon into Holiday & Porzingis is a defensive upgrade as far as I'm concerned. Also gives further room for White to play, who defended better than Smart last year.
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Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2023, 05:11:21 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Reading the thread I think it's interesting that there are some 'defensively minded' posters who are thrilled that we've ejected the twin pillars of our defense in favour of more offensively-minded players over one off-season.

Jrue is a better and more consistent defender than Smart, though.

And, is if fair to call Timelord a pillar when he's fairly unreliable at being available?

I think we paid too much, but I'm not all that worried about the defense degrading.


Well given how mediocre our defense was last season and with Joe “Take More Threes Than The Other Team And We Win” Mazzulla there’s not much more to degrade there   :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM »

Offline footey

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Quote
Reading the thread I think it's interesting that there are some 'defensively minded' posters who are thrilled that we've ejected the twin pillars of our defense in favour of more offensively-minded players over one off-season.

Jrue is a better and more consistent defender than Smart, though.

And, is if fair to call Timelord a pillar when he's fairly unreliable at being available?

I think we paid too much, but I'm not all that worried about the defense degrading.


Well given how mediocre our defense was last season and with Joe “Take More Threes Than The Other Team And We Win” Mazzulla there’s not much more to degrade there   :police:

2nd best defense in league was mediocre? Tough crowd.

Re: Woj: Jrue to Celtics
« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2023, 05:18:39 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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Because the Clippers are a$$ hats we lost smart and rob.  I do not like this deal.  The depth is trash.  I really hope the cs can sign a big and someone like bullock