Patriots 2023 Season

[Donoghus]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

[celticsclay]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Please don’t make him start arguing that one game is why cassell had a bad career after the patriots. I beg you.

[green_bballers13]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Please don’t make him start arguing that one game is why cassell had a bad career after the patriots. I beg you.

Begging won't work and asking him to stop won't work. Pointing out how many daft takes he has added to this thread might work, but probably not. I think we're stuck reading these posts, which is kind of a bummer.

Re: the Patriots- I want them to go 2-15 and fire Bill. Start over with a young player's coach and a separate GM. Trade out of the top 3 pick for a king's ransom. Marvin Harrison would be nice, but they need to upgrade the line and QB before he can even catch a ball. Start a rebuild, which is ok because there's forward progress. Bottoming out and a spring cleanining will get this team back on track.

[Phantom255x]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

[Donoghus]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

Probably a good thing that you weren't around for the local TV blackouts...

[Vermont Green]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

This is very telling to the relevance of the current Patriots team  PHI and SEA are both potential playoff teams.  I think the NFL fears that the Pats are tanking and don't want to put a tanking team on National Television.  Not sure the PHI/SEA will have any higher ratings.  People who watch football are going to watch football.

[Moranis]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

I mean they did flex Hurts and the Eagles in against the Seahawks.  And it is in Seattle so it should be fairly close.

[ozgod]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

I'm ok with it. I don't want the whole country to watch us getting humiliated

[SparzWizard]

Pats-Chiefs Monday Night game originally on December 18 has officially been FLEXED.

Flexed to December 17, 1 PM.

That's pathetic. The reasons for it is obvious, but still, the Pats are so garbage and useless that they flexed Mahomes out of primetime.  That speaks volumes. And remember, Pats got flexed last year out of a primetime game as well against the Raiders. Wonder if Kraft notices, or cares.....

Nobody wants to watch an obvious pathetic failing/tanking team on national TV. Unfortunately, these aren't the same Pats who've dueled against Mahomes. Get ready for a 27-6 beatdown in Foxboro

[Moranis]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Sure and they entered the bye as the 1 seed and then came out of the bye and Mac collapsed along with the team (including getting blasted by the Bills twice).  He has never been the same after that game and neither have the Pats.  Sometimes you win the battle but lose the war.

[Goldstar88]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Sure and they entered the bye as the 1 seed and then came out of the bye and Mac collapsed along with the team (including getting blasted by the Bills twice).  He has never been the same after that game and neither have the Pats.  Sometimes you win the battle but lose the war.

You are aware that Mac has had good games since then, correct? For example, the first game of this season vs the Eagles where he threw for 3TD’s and over 300 yards. Passer rating of 91… That was with Kendrick Bourne as a #1 option. Trying to make it sound like one game broke him is ridiculous.

[Moranis]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Sure and they entered the bye as the 1 seed and then came out of the bye and Mac collapsed along with the team (including getting blasted by the Bills twice).  He has never been the same after that game and neither have the Pats.  Sometimes you win the battle but lose the war.

You are aware that Mac has had good games since then, correct? For example, the first game of this season vs the Eagles where he threw for 3TD’s and over 300 yards. Passer rating of 91… That was with Kendrick Bourne as a #1 option. Trying to make it sound like one game broke him is ridiculous.

of course. He has some talent.  And it isn't one game, that was just evidence. Much like one game didn't break Ben Simmons, that was just evidence of a relationship beyond repair because of a lack of trust.

[Neurotic Guy]

I read this a couple of months ago and its stuck with me. 

Has anyone remembered a QB that has regressed as much as Mac has from his rookie year to year 3 that wasn't impacted by injuries?

I'm having a hard time coming up with one. It's pretty wild to consider.

I don't get the Mac Jones hate. Bill Belichick has set him up to fail, plain and simple. Has any 3rd year QB had 3 different offensive coordinators in 3 years, an offensive line that can't pass block, have their best WR leave in free agency, and have a GM that can't draft WR's? Not to mention the toll on a team that has drafted so poorly in at least 5 years. BTW, how many teams have successfully switched offensive tackle positions? This happened in Mac's second season and the line hasn't been good since. I almost forgot, isn't the team on their 3rd offensive line coach in 3 years too?

Look at Mac's peers just from Alabama. Jalen Hurts and Tua didn't light the world on fire when they first started. Then each of those teams traded for an elite receiver and also used a top 10 pick to draft another elite receiver. Suddenly those guys went from average at best QB's to MVP caliber simply due to the massive upgrade in WR personnel. For some reason, Bill Belichick can't grasp this concept.

Is Mac broken now, yes. I'd argue that any QB in the league would not have survived what Mac has gone through. The complete incompetence in the front office and coaching staff needs to go. You just can't fire Bill, since he has hired virtually everyone involved in this mess. This needs to be a top to bottom overhaul.

Not hating him but he's definitely regressed.  Now how much of it is on him versus the coaching staff/personnel is debatable but its certainly apparent that he's taken a giant step back from his rookie year and the odd thing is that you really can't chalk up this regression to injuries.

His injury may not be physical, but what I highlighted has certainly contributed to damaging him mentally. Sometimes that is far worse, as there is no simple fix, especially since the damage took so long to accumulate.

At least you're not pointing to some singular game played under awful weather conditions his rookie year as the root of his downfall.

the root of the downfall to the relationship is Bill's lack of trust in Mac. That game was just evidence of it.

The only thing that game is evidence of a strategic game plan to win in pretty horrific throwing elements.  They won the game.

Belichick once had Matt Cassel only attempt 8 passes in very similar conditions. That game plan also resulted in a Pats win. 

Belichick had a track record of doing this in BUF with pretty awful conditions before that 2021 game. 

Just you because you make up some crap and repeat it over & over again on here doesn't make it anywhere near fact or truth.

Sure and they entered the bye as the 1 seed and then came out of the bye and Mac collapsed along with the team (including getting blasted by the Bills twice).  He has never been the same after that game and neither have the Pats.  Sometimes you win the battle but lose the war.

You are aware that Mac has had good games since then, correct? For example, the first game of this season vs the Eagles where he threw for 3TD’s and over 300 yards. Passer rating of 91… That was with Kendrick Bourne as a #1 option. Trying to make it sound like one game broke him is ridiculous.

of course. He has some talent.  And it isn't one game, that was just evidence. Much like one game didn't break Ben Simmons, that was just evidence of a relationship beyond repair because of a lack of trust.

There are some ongoing arguments where you have to be saying to yourself - am I really still arguing about this?  Can’t you suffice it to say that the cumulative effect of all of the above from the 3-pass game to the rotating coordinators to the speculated poor relationship with BB, to the porous offensive lines and weak receiving corps, etc have led to a pretty shattered confidence and the need for Mac to rebuild his career elsewhere?   You can’t know for sure what impact every detail has had on Mac’s brain - but the bottom line is what it is and I don’t see anyone at this point disagreeing with that. 

[Goldstar88]

After receiving QB1 reps in practice this week and a report that the Patriots were “preparing” to start Bailey Zappe, the second-year quarterback is reportedly set to start against the Chargers.

“He’s pretty consistent, about what it’s been all year,” Belichick told reporters Friday. “He’s pretty even-keeled, not a lot of roller coaster with him.”

The Patriots “will indeed” start Zappe on Sunday, The Athletic’s Jeff Howe reported Friday. Jones is also “unlikely to play” barring a mid-game change, Howe added. It’s still unclear where Jones’s standing on the depth chart is.

The Patriots also have “a package of plays” prepared for rookie quarterback/wide receiver Malik Cunningham, according to Howe. Cunningham has not seen game action since his one and only appearance this season against the Raiders in Week 6. Cunningham saw two snaps under center in that game and four as a receiver.

[Vermont Green]

There are some ongoing arguments where you have to be saying to yourself - am I really still arguing about this?  Can’t you suffice it to say that the cumulative effect of all of the above from the 3-pass game to the rotating coordinators to the speculated poor relationship with BB, to the porous offensive lines and weak receiving corps, etc have led to a pretty shattered confidence and the need for Mac to rebuild his career elsewhere?   You can’t know for sure what impact every detail has had on Mac’s brain - but the bottom line is what it is and I don’t see anyone at this point disagreeing with that.

I agree totally with this bottom line that Mac has lost all confidence or mojo or whatever and is currently not mentally positioned to be an NFL QB.  There are lots of factors that have led to this but I put it mostly on Mac.  Saban even said recently that he had issues or questions about Mac's mental make up or mental toughness back at Alabama.  It was not always the case; there have been periods in his NFL career where he as looked good, but that is not the case right now.  His mind is not even close to where it needs to be to be an NFL QB.

I think Zappe's mindset or whatever is much better but unfortunately, I don't believe he has the overall talent to be an NFL starting QB.  We'll see over the next few games I guess.   I see no reason to play Mac any more this season.  I don't think it is going to fix him, if he can even be fixed, and at this point, I hate to say it, but who wants to win any games anyway?  Let's role out Zappe and Cunningham and see if by some miracle, one of them plays like an actual NFL QB, something to build on for next season.

Mac meanwhile should consult a sports psychologist in the off season (I say that with all seriousness), try to get his head back in the right place, and pick things up next season.  I doubt very much that this is the end of his NFL run.  There is still NFL talent there, we have all seen it along the way.  He will get more opportunity, in NE or elsewhere.