Patriots 2023 Season

[Moranis]

If the Pats aren't sold on Williams or Maye, then they absolutely should trade down as some team drafting fairly high may very well be sold on them.  Not go back too far, but a couple of spots and pick up a couple extra 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd or something like that.  You still get a high level player this year, another starter this year (the 2nd rounder), and a high level player next year and the year after with the 1st's.  It has to be a top 6ish pick this year though for it to make sense. I'm not sure I'd even do the Bears/Panthers trade in this draft as the Bears, though that might give them the 1st pick so even that was amazing for them.

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones was a good QB for the first half of his rookie year.  Then the Bills game happened and he has gotten considerably worse since.  I know you all think I'm crazy because I attribute that game to the beginning of the end of Mac Jones in NE.  But, I absolutely maintain you cannot tell the world that you have so little faith in your QB's arm that you only throw the ball 3 times in a 4 point game.  Because you aren't just telling the world that, you are telling the QB and his teammates that you don't trust him to throw the ball. You can't have a QB that you don't trust.  Period. And Bill doesn't trust Mac and probably never has, but it was apparent to everyone, including Mac, after that Bills game.

You really just have to retire this take man. I know we have disagreed on a lot over the years but this is the first take that you have had that is so objectively illogical I can’t figure out how you really believe it. I know people have said to not take the bait on such a silly take but I will one more time for ol times sake. Is your take that professional athletes, even first round picks that experienced massive success in college, are extremely mentally fragile and they are one bad game script away from just having their careers ruined? Like if we let neismith play 5 more minutes in two games In December of his rookie year he becomes an all star? I think it is clear to everyone watching the patriots and Mac that he is not a good quarterback and was never gonna be a great player even if he got drafted on the 1991 cowboys. He is has an average to weak arm, he isn’t particularly mobile, he has shown poor decision making throughout his career. We are saying we moved him from Trent dilfer to Gardner minshew with one game or what?

I mean, if Mac is that mentally weak then there's no way he was going to end up as a successful NFL QB.  His first sign of adversity and he mentally turtles for multiple seasons?

Your coach gelling you and the world that he doesn't trust you is not adversity, it is a sinking ship. And since the coach doesn't trust him, he doesn't develop game plans, sign players that fit, etc. Bill gave up on him and the team.  This is a Bill problem, not a Mac problem.  Mac isn't great and never will be, but he certainly should be better than he is.  He and the team played very well till that Bills game. Downhill ever since.

The problem is everyone. The players, the coaches, and the GM. This season has been a total loss. I want them to sign Gardner Minshew and draft Marvin Harrison, or trade out of the top pick. There's a chance that Caleb Williams is special, but he hasn't shown it.

Also, other guys are right here. Mac Jones wasn't ruined by one game (a win in Buffalo). It's been a series of events. This is a second request to retire this take on Celtics Strong. We also don't need to hear more about your opinions of Jaylen Brown. We have heard you.

It would be interesting if this board had some sort of votes to retire a take. Like you say the same thing ten times and nobody agrees with you have to stop repeating it year after year. Lord knows 5 years from now when Mac is playing in the USFL I don’t want to read he is there cause he didn’t throw in one bad weather game his team won.

[A Future of Stevens]

Not gonna lie my heart was in my mouth when Ryland lined up that kick. Then when he hooked it was like awesome we escaped with a loss! Tank still on!

That is how I felt as well. It is strange rooting for losses for NFL teams.

[ozgod]

Not gonna lie my heart was in my mouth when Ryland lined up that kick. Then when he hooked it was like awesome we escaped with a loss! Tank still on!

That is how I felt as well. It is strange rooting for losses for NFL teams.

At this point I've accepted there's no benefit at all to winning, I want them to lose every single game from now on. I hope Bill keeps platooning the QBs and playing his stupid mind games with them so they have zero chance to be prepared...I hope that Carolina firing Reich might result in a bounceback couple of games from them and they actually win something 

[Goldstar88]

Pats have a boatload of needs;  OL, WR, probably QB, among others.

Really wonder if they would take a top 3 pick and trade down to build up more draft capital.

The Patriots have a ton of needs, especially offensively. I don't know if I trust Caleb Williams or Drake May at QB. They may be better off drafting a blue chip player in Marvin Harrison Jr or the Penn St OT Fashanu.

Completely agree. Look at the “loaded” QB draft of 2021. Lawrence, Zack Wilson, Lance, Fields, Mac Jones. Trevor Lawrence was viewed as a can’t miss prospect. He’s on pace for 19TD’s/11INT’s and 4200 yards passing. He has good WR’s and RB’s too. The Pats have so many holes and drafting a QB is such a crapshoot. They might be better off moving back a few spots and taking the best OT in the draft. Not sure what good it will do drafting a QB if your O-line is still terrible.

[A Future of Stevens]

Pats have a boatload of needs;  OL, WR, probably QB, among others.

Really wonder if they would take a top 3 pick and trade down to build up more draft capital.

The Patriots have a ton of needs, especially offensively. I don't know if I trust Caleb Williams or Drake May at QB. They may be better off drafting a blue chip player in Marvin Harrison Jr or the Penn St OT Fashanu.

Completely agree. Look at the “loaded” QB draft of 2021. Lawrence, Zack Wilson, Lance, Fields, Mac Jones. Trevor Lawrence was viewed as a can’t miss prospect. He’s on pace for 19TD’s/11INT’s and 4200 yards passing. He has good WR’s and RB’s too. The Pats have so many holes and drafting a QB is such a crapshoot. They might be better off moving back a few spots and taking the best OT in the draft. Not sure what good it will do drafting a QB if your O-line is still terrible.

Lawrence is such a strange case to me. Whenever I watch Jags games, he passes the eye test with flying colors. Their offense just doesn't get passing tds. I would trade our first right now for Lawrence's next contract. I think he has IT. It will be interesting to see if the Jags can continue to make positive progress around him.

[SparzWizard]

Not gonna lie my heart was in my mouth when Ryland lined up that kick. Then when he hooked it was like awesome we escaped with a loss! Tank still on!

That is how I felt as well. It is strange rooting for losses for NFL teams.

At this point I've accepted there's no benefit at all to winning, I want them to lose every single game from now on. I hope Bill keeps platooning the QBs and playing his stupid mind games with them so they have zero chance to be prepared...I hope that Carolina firing Reich might result in a bounceback couple of games from them and they actually win something 

The Raiders have been on a run with their interim head coach after firing McDaniels. So it's possible!

[Phantom255x]

At this point, I don't even understand the "legacy" argument with Belichick and keeping him here. We're 4 years past Brady and they are well below .500 since and have not improved at all. Then you have Belichick still snickering at the media and talking like he's actually 9-2 instead of 2-9 and that he's absolved from all blame. It's also clear the Pats locker room and players aren't really buying in anymore and a lot of them have no trouble saying stuff to the media or on social media which was never the case during the Brady years ("buttoned up operation").

It's all dysfunctional, and the product is super boring. And even if they get the #1 or 2 pick, anyone trust Belichick to use it wisely? He'd probably trade down for some reaches at guard and kicker. He's built a horrible roster even besides the QB and the drafting has been a massive issue too. The 2022 draft is basically gone or full of busts

He has to go after this season, period. Enough.

[green_bballers13]

At this point, I don't even understand the "legacy" argument with Belichick and keeping him here. We're 4 years past Brady and they are well below .500 since and have not improved at all. Then you have Belichick still snickering at the media and talking like he's actually 9-2 instead of 2-9 and that he's absolved from all blame. It's also clear the Pats locker room and players aren't really buying in anymore and a lot of them have no trouble saying stuff to the media or on social media which was never the case during the Brady years ("buttoned up operation").

It's all dysfunctional, and the product is super boring. And even if they get the #1 or 2 pick, anyone trust Belichick to use it wisely? He'd probably trade down for some reaches at guard and kicker. He's built a horrible roster even besides the QB and the drafting has been a massive issue too. The 2022 draft is basically gone or full of busts

He has to go after this season, period. Enough.

I'm curious, as I didn't see this. What are current players saying about BB and the Pats?

[Vermont Green]

Mac Jones was a good QB for the first half of his rookie year.  Then the Bills game happened and he has gotten considerably worse since.  I know you all think I'm crazy because I attribute that game to the beginning of the end of Mac Jones in NE.  But, I absolutely maintain you cannot tell the world that you have so little faith in your QB's arm that you only throw the ball 3 times in a 4 point game.  Because you aren't just telling the world that, you are telling the QB and his teammates that you don't trust him to throw the ball. You can't have a QB that you don't trust.  Period. And Bill doesn't trust Mac and probably never has, but it was apparent to everyone, including Mac, after that Bills game.

I went and checked and yes, only 3 attempts in the rainy, windy game in Buffalo but the following game @Indy, Mac threw it 45 times.  Why would a coach who had lost confidence in a QB, throw it 45 times?  And even if Mac was pouting that he only got to throw 3 times, wouldn't he get over it with the 45 throws the next game (his average in his rookie season was about 30 attmp/gm)?

I think it is fair to say that Mac does not deal well with adversity and there has been plenty of adversity the last season or so.  At this point, Mac is a basket case.  He is not thinking straight on the field.  He is playing to not lose.  I don't think this is a coaching issue, it is just part of Mac's makeup.  A coach can try to protect the QB from adversity to a point but in the end, if the QB cannot deal with adversity, he is not going to be an NFL QB.

[Phantom255x]

At this point, I don't even understand the "legacy" argument with Belichick and keeping him here. We're 4 years past Brady and they are well below .500 since and have not improved at all. Then you have Belichick still snickering at the media and talking like he's actually 9-2 instead of 2-9 and that he's absolved from all blame. It's also clear the Pats locker room and players aren't really buying in anymore and a lot of them have no trouble saying stuff to the media or on social media which was never the case during the Brady years ("buttoned up operation").

It's all dysfunctional, and the product is super boring. And even if they get the #1 or 2 pick, anyone trust Belichick to use it wisely? He'd probably trade down for some reaches at guard and kicker. He's built a horrible roster even besides the QB and the drafting has been a massive issue too. The 2022 draft is basically gone or full of busts

He has to go after this season, period. Enough.

I'm curious, as I didn't see this. What are current players saying about BB and the Pats?

Jack Jones. JC Jackson. McCourty since retiring has also said some stuff about the recent years (Mac vs. Zappe situation, offense being abysmal, etc.). Phillips made some comments yesterday which while in good nature was probably also a shot at the offense too. Guys like JuJu and Parker have also at separate times yelled at coaches, or in Parker's case took zero accountability after a brutal drop vs. LAV. A lot of this stuff is stuff that wouldn't happen at all 10 years ago.

Oh and even Trent Brown on Twitter and in interviews has pretty much spoken his mind about stuff.

[Donoghus]

Mac Jones was a good QB for the first half of his rookie year.  Then the Bills game happened and he has gotten considerably worse since.  I know you all think I'm crazy because I attribute that game to the beginning of the end of Mac Jones in NE.  But, I absolutely maintain you cannot tell the world that you have so little faith in your QB's arm that you only throw the ball 3 times in a 4 point game.  Because you aren't just telling the world that, you are telling the QB and his teammates that you don't trust him to throw the ball. You can't have a QB that you don't trust.  Period. And Bill doesn't trust Mac and probably never has, but it was apparent to everyone, including Mac, after that Bills game.

I went and checked and yes, only 3 attempts in the rainy, windy game in Buffalo but the following game @Indy, Mac threw it 45 times.  Why would a coach who had lost confidence in a QB, throw it 45 times?  And even if Mac was pouting that he only got to throw 3 times, wouldn't he get over it with the 45 throws the next game (his average in his rookie season was about 30 attmp/gm)?

Because the whole idea is rooted in the land of make believe to elicit responses. 

3 weeks after the first Buffalo game, he threw for 3 TDs , 0 INTs, with an completion percentage of 73% on 30 PA in a 50-10 thrashing of JAX.  Clearly, his confidence was shattered.

[green_bballers13]

Mac Jones was a good QB for the first half of his rookie year.  Then the Bills game happened and he has gotten considerably worse since.  I know you all think I'm crazy because I attribute that game to the beginning of the end of Mac Jones in NE.  But, I absolutely maintain you cannot tell the world that you have so little faith in your QB's arm that you only throw the ball 3 times in a 4 point game.  Because you aren't just telling the world that, you are telling the QB and his teammates that you don't trust him to throw the ball. You can't have a QB that you don't trust.  Period. And Bill doesn't trust Mac and probably never has, but it was apparent to everyone, including Mac, after that Bills game.

I went and checked and yes, only 3 attempts in the rainy, windy game in Buffalo but the following game @Indy, Mac threw it 45 times.  Why would a coach who had lost confidence in a QB, throw it 45 times?  And even if Mac was pouting that he only got to throw 3 times, wouldn't he get over it with the 45 throws the next game (his average in his rookie season was about 30 attmp/gm)?

Because the whole idea is rooted in the land of make believe to elicit responses. 

3 weeks after the first Buffalo game, he threw for 3 TDs , 0 INTs, with an completion percentage of 73% on 30 PA in a 50-10 thrashing of JAX.  Clearly, his confidence was shattered.

But Jaylen Brown doesn't help the Celtics!

[Moranis]

Mac Jones was a good QB for the first half of his rookie year.  Then the Bills game happened and he has gotten considerably worse since.  I know you all think I'm crazy because I attribute that game to the beginning of the end of Mac Jones in NE.  But, I absolutely maintain you cannot tell the world that you have so little faith in your QB's arm that you only throw the ball 3 times in a 4 point game.  Because you aren't just telling the world that, you are telling the QB and his teammates that you don't trust him to throw the ball. You can't have a QB that you don't trust.  Period. And Bill doesn't trust Mac and probably never has, but it was apparent to everyone, including Mac, after that Bills game.

I went and checked and yes, only 3 attempts in the rainy, windy game in Buffalo but the following game @Indy, Mac threw it 45 times.  Why would a coach who had lost confidence in a QB, throw it 45 times?  And even if Mac was pouting that he only got to throw 3 times, wouldn't he get over it with the 45 throws the next game (his average in his rookie season was about 30 attmp/gm)?

I think it is fair to say that Mac does not deal well with adversity and there has been plenty of adversity the last season or so.  At this point, Mac is a basket case.  He is not thinking straight on the field.  He is playing to not lose.  I don't think this is a coaching issue, it is just part of Mac's makeup.  A coach can try to protect the QB from adversity to a point but in the end, if the QB cannot deal with adversity, he is not going to be an NFL QB.

I think that game was a symptom of a problem that was brewing behind the scenes and has only gotten worse since.  I mean I almost equate to Simmons not dunking the ball with 3 minutes left in a playoff game.  That game itself wasn't the end of Simmons in Philly, but that game led to his coach throwing him under the bus to the media and made a private issue public, which did lead to the end of Simmons in Philly.  What should have been a private team issue was made into a public problem and ruined the relationship.  Bill didn't trust Mac's arm and he told the world that his QB can't throw the ball in bad weather (while the opposing QB threw it 30 times).  It was Bill telling the world that created the conflict and worsened the relationship, but the underlying issue is Bill just doesn't trust Mac and he never has. Without trust, you can't win in sports. And I also think that because Mac was a rookie drafted by Bill and they had no one else they could turn to, Bill was sort of stuck with Mac. It is Bill's terrible roster and coaching management that exacerbated the issue, which he has just made worse and worse with subsequent moves. He basically set Mac up to fail and can now blame Mac for his short comings (much like Doc did with Simmons). 

This isn't to say that I think Mac was ever going to be a great QB, I do not, but Mac should be somewhere in the high teen's if you were ranking QB's based on how the beginning of his rookie year went.  That is until his coach destroyed his confidence and made him a shell of the player he once was or could have been.

[green_bballers13]

Nah... that's not it. How come Mac threw the ball 45 times the previous game and 32 times in the following game?