Patriots 2023 Season

[Moranis]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

Sounds like we would have had to overpay him if he would have even come back at all. Let’s be honest living in Vegas at 25 is a lot more appealing than being in a New England winter. "It's hard to turn down Las Vegas," Meyers told longtime NFL reporter Josina Anderson. "When you look at their offense, when you look at their coaches. They wanted me, I wanted them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out with the Patriots. I put a lot of effort in my time there. I appreciate them, but God works in mysterious ways. I'm blessed."

or maybe the Patriots lowballed him and he had no choice but to leave for fair compensation. Wouldn't be the first time under Bill, the Pats got cheap and lost a player.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

Sounds like we would have had to overpay him if he would have even come back at all. Let’s be honest living in Vegas at 25 is a lot more appealing than being in a New England winter. "It's hard to turn down Las Vegas," Meyers told longtime NFL reporter Josina Anderson. "When you look at their offense, when you look at their coaches. They wanted me, I wanted them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out with the Patriots. I put a lot of effort in my time there. I appreciate them, but God works in mysterious ways. I'm blessed."

I agree that Vegas is probably a lot more appealing to a lot of people (though it wouldn't be for me), but that quote could just be a case of him saying the right things about them after he took their money. It just seems to me that after all the New England draft busts at WR, the team would've wanted to hold on to the one that actually worked out.

[Vermont Green]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

Sounds like we would have had to overpay him if he would have even come back at all. Let’s be honest living in Vegas at 25 is a lot more appealing than being in a New England winter. "It's hard to turn down Las Vegas," Meyers told longtime NFL reporter Josina Anderson. "When you look at their offense, when you look at their coaches. They wanted me, I wanted them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out with the Patriots. I put a lot of effort in my time there. I appreciate them, but God works in mysterious ways. I'm blessed."

I agree that Vegas is probably a lot more appealing to a lot of people (though it wouldn't be for me), but that quote could just be a case of him saying the right things about them after he took their money. It just seems to me that after all the New England draft busts at WR, the team would've wanted to hold on to the one that actually worked out.

With Bill Belichick, the simplest answer is usually the most likely.  I think the Patriots made a decision that they thought JuJu Smith was the better player.  That judgement may prove correct, it may not.  Jakobi got 3 years $33M, JuJu only 3 years $25M, and less guaranteed.  Now I know that NFL contracts are way more complicated than that but this is kind of the bottom line.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

Sounds like we would have had to overpay him if he would have even come back at all. Let’s be honest living in Vegas at 25 is a lot more appealing than being in a New England winter. "It's hard to turn down Las Vegas," Meyers told longtime NFL reporter Josina Anderson. "When you look at their offense, when you look at their coaches. They wanted me, I wanted them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out with the Patriots. I put a lot of effort in my time there. I appreciate them, but God works in mysterious ways. I'm blessed."

I agree that Vegas is probably a lot more appealing to a lot of people (though it wouldn't be for me), but that quote could just be a case of him saying the right things about them after he took their money. It just seems to me that after all the New England draft busts at WR, the team would've wanted to hold on to the one that actually worked out.

With Bill Belichick, the simplest answer is usually the most likely.  I think the Patriots made a decision that they thought JuJu Smith was the better player.  That judgement may prove correct, it may not.  Jakobi got 3 years $33M, JuJu only 3 years $25M, and less guaranteed.  Now I know that NFL contracts are way more complicated than that but this is kind of the bottom line.

What you're saying makes sense. It probably does come down to "less money" + "we think JuJu's the better player." Time will tell if it was the right decision.

[Moranis]

What I've seen reported show JuJu is actually guaranteed more money. Meyers has a roster bonus that becomes guaranteed a few days ino next season at 10.5 million, but he could be cut after this year with just the 11 million and 6.8 in dead money.  JuJu can't be cut until after the following year so 2 years, 18 million with 2.6 in dead money. JuJu also has incentives for this year of 1.5 million and 3 million total each of next 2 years.  So if he hits all the incentives he ends up at 3 years 33 million, which was the initial reporting with more money guaranteed and a longer time till he can be cut.  So basically the same money, though he has to earn some of it, but if he doesn't you are stuck with him longer and at a higher cost.

So yeah it probably came down to them thinking JuJu is better and I just don't get that. I'd rather have Meyers especially since he knows the team, players, system, etc.  Neither guy is a 1, I just feel better about Meyers being more consistent and healthier, so I trust him as a 2 much better.

[green_bballers13]

What I've seen reported show JuJu is actually guaranteed more money. Meyers has a roster bonus that becomes guaranteed a few days ino next season at 10.5 million, but he could be cut after this year with just the 11 million and 6.8 in dead money.  JuJu can't be cut until after the following year so 2 years, 18 million with 2.6 in dead money. JuJu also has incentives for this year of 1.5 million and 3 million total each of next 2 years.  So if he hits all the incentives he ends up at 3 years 33 million, which was the initial reporting with more money guaranteed and a longer time till he can be cut.  So basically the same money, though he has to earn some of it, but if he doesn't you are stuck with him longer and at a higher cost.

So yeah it probably came down to them thinking JuJu is better and I just don't get that. I'd rather have Meyers especially since he knows the team, players, system, etc.  Neither guy is a 1, I just feel better about Meyers being more consistent and healthier, so I trust him as a 2 much better.

I think most people prefer Juju over Meyers, but I don't see a huge difference in ability. They're both decent receivers. I hope Meyers recovers from his recent concussion. I hate seeing guys get injured, especially when related to the brain.

Edit: I just looked up their Madden 2024 ratings. They gave Juju an 82 and Meyers an 81.

[Phantom255x]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

[Vermont Green]

What I've seen reported show JuJu is actually guaranteed more money. Meyers has a roster bonus that becomes guaranteed a few days ino next season at 10.5 million, but he could be cut after this year with just the 11 million and 6.8 in dead money.  JuJu can't be cut until after the following year so 2 years, 18 million with 2.6 in dead money. JuJu also has incentives for this year of 1.5 million and 3 million total each of next 2 years.  So if he hits all the incentives he ends up at 3 years 33 million, which was the initial reporting with more money guaranteed and a longer time till he can be cut.  So basically the same money, though he has to earn some of it, but if he doesn't you are stuck with him longer and at a higher cost.

So yeah it probably came down to them thinking JuJu is better and I just don't get that. I'd rather have Meyers especially since he knows the team, players, system, etc.  Neither guy is a 1, I just feel better about Meyers being more consistent and healthier, so I trust him as a 2 much better.

Per Spotrac, Meyers has more guaranteed:

Meyers:

Jakobi Meyers signed a 3 year, $33,000,000 contract with the Las Vegas Raiders, including a $5,500,000 signing bonus, $21,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $11,000,000. In 2023, Meyers will earn a base salary of $1,080,000, a signing bonus of $5,500,000, a restructure bonus of $3,920,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,153,215 and a dead cap value of $10,750,002.

JuJu:

JuJu Smith-Schuster signed a 3 year, $25,500,000 contract with the New England Patriots, including a $7,900,000 signing bonus, $16,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,500,000. In 2023, Smith-Schuster will earn a base salary of $1,100,000 and a signing bonus of $7,900,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,674,509 and a dead cap value of $16,000,000.

I repeat that I do not fully understand NFL contracts, I am just taking Spotrac's word for it.  It is not an official source but generally pretty accurate.

[libermaniac]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

Most Dolphins fans would take you to task on adding Tua to that list.  They have the same complaints that you have.  They did add Terron Armstead (a pro-bowler when healthy), but he misses like 5 games a year and never practices.  They also added Connor Williams from Dallas and converted him from G to C.  He's the guy who mis-snapped the ball that Tua fumbled on their opening drive.  Then they've blown top picks on bust Liam Eichenberg, and yet-to-be-proven Austin Jackson, who missed all of last year with injuries.  Tua just gets rid of the ball faster than most QBs and has open WRs in Waddle and Tyreek, so it masks their O-lines deficiency.  I'm not familiar with the Pats - Miami has "tried" to help Tua by building the line, but has done a poor job of it.

[Moranis]

What I've seen reported show JuJu is actually guaranteed more money. Meyers has a roster bonus that becomes guaranteed a few days ino next season at 10.5 million, but he could be cut after this year with just the 11 million and 6.8 in dead money.  JuJu can't be cut until after the following year so 2 years, 18 million with 2.6 in dead money. JuJu also has incentives for this year of 1.5 million and 3 million total each of next 2 years.  So if he hits all the incentives he ends up at 3 years 33 million, which was the initial reporting with more money guaranteed and a longer time till he can be cut.  So basically the same money, though he has to earn some of it, but if he doesn't you are stuck with him longer and at a higher cost.

So yeah it probably came down to them thinking JuJu is better and I just don't get that. I'd rather have Meyers especially since he knows the team, players, system, etc.  Neither guy is a 1, I just feel better about Meyers being more consistent and healthier, so I trust him as a 2 much better.

Per Spotrac, Meyers has more guaranteed:

Meyers:

Jakobi Meyers signed a 3 year, $33,000,000 contract with the Las Vegas Raiders, including a $5,500,000 signing bonus, $21,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $11,000,000. In 2023, Meyers will earn a base salary of $1,080,000, a signing bonus of $5,500,000, a restructure bonus of $3,920,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,153,215 and a dead cap value of $10,750,002.

JuJu:

JuJu Smith-Schuster signed a 3 year, $25,500,000 contract with the New England Patriots, including a $7,900,000 signing bonus, $16,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,500,000. In 2023, Smith-Schuster will earn a base salary of $1,100,000 and a signing bonus of $7,900,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,674,509 and a dead cap value of $16,000,000.

I repeat that I do not fully understand NFL contracts, I am just taking Spotrac's word for it.  It is not an official source but generally pretty accurate.

spotrac also shows that 10.5 million of Meyers guarantee is triggered 3 days into next season.  So if they cut him before that, it isn't guaranteed.  Just the remaining signing bonus which goes on as dead cap

POTENTIAL OUT: 2024, 1 YR, $11,000,000; $6,802,668 DEAD CAP

-$10.5M guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2023 salary)

-$5M 2024 salary & a $5.5M 2024 roster bonus fully guaranteed the 3rd league day of 2024 (injury guaranteed at signing)

The key number is often the number guaranteed at signing, not the full guarantee, since there are ways out of the contract before later guarantees are triggered.

[BitterJim]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

I don't like the lack of good O-line starters either, but "criminally negligent" is a huge overreaction based on the (admittedly small) sample size we have this year. It seems like he made the most important improvement he could have: bringing in an O-line coach who is not only competent, but actually good.

We need to get some actual tackles next year if we want to actually do anything in the playoffs, but our patchwork line held up very well against a very strong Eagles' defensive front. If the line keeps playing like that then I'm not too worried about Mac (though admittedly that's a big "if").

[Moranis]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

I don't like the lack of good O-line starters either, but "criminally negligent" is a huge overreaction based on the (admittedly small) sample size we have this year. It seems like he made the most important improvement he could have: bringing in an O-line coach who is not only competent, but actually good.

We need to get some actual tackles next year if we want to actually do anything in the playoffs, but our patchwork line held up very well against a very strong Eagles' defensive front. If the line keeps playing like that then I'm not too worried about Mac (though admittedly that's a big "if").

the Pats drafted 3 OL this year. Yes they were 4th and 5th rounders which generally means not going to do much as rookies, but it isn't like they ignored the position in the draft.  That is a good start to the depth. Before that they added Reiff, Anderson, and Ferentz in free agency.  They also made the trade in training camp with the Browns to bring in Wheatley.  Now sure, no difference makers, but it was a heavy focus of the team.

[Goldstar88]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

I don't like the lack of good O-line starters either, but "criminally negligent" is a huge overreaction based on the (admittedly small) sample size we have this year. It seems like he made the most important improvement he could have: bringing in an O-line coach who is not only competent, but actually good.

We need to get some actual tackles next year if we want to actually do anything in the playoffs, but our patchwork line held up very well against a very strong Eagles' defensive front. If the line keeps playing like that then I'm not too worried about Mac (though admittedly that's a big "if").

the Pats drafted 3 OL this year. Yes they were 4th and 5th rounders which generally means not going to do much as rookies, but it isn't like they ignored the position in the draft.  That is a good start to the depth. Before that they added Reiff, Anderson, and Ferentz in free agency.  They also made the trade in training camp with the Browns to bring in Wheatley.  Now sure, no difference makers, but it was a heavy focus of the team.

The Pats needed to address the OT position in the off-season. They did not do so through FA or the draft.

[BitterJim]

The way Belichick managed and put together this O-Line during the offseason is criminally negligent

He's not doing everything to help Mac Jones. Not even close. Not like the other teams with their young QBs (Herbert, Burrow, Mahomes, Hurts, Tua, etc.)

And the fact that they had to add two depth tackles during the roster cutdown portion proves it. That's not "due diligence", they got really desperate and they basically still are.

I don't like the lack of good O-line starters either, but "criminally negligent" is a huge overreaction based on the (admittedly small) sample size we have this year. It seems like he made the most important improvement he could have: bringing in an O-line coach who is not only competent, but actually good.

We need to get some actual tackles next year if we want to actually do anything in the playoffs, but our patchwork line held up very well against a very strong Eagles' defensive front. If the line keeps playing like that then I'm not too worried about Mac (though admittedly that's a big "if").

the Pats drafted 3 OL this year. Yes they were 4th and 5th rounders which generally means not going to do much as rookies, but it isn't like they ignored the position in the draft.  That is a good start to the depth. Before that they added Reiff, Anderson, and Ferentz in free agency.  They also made the trade in training camp with the Browns to bring in Wheatley.  Now sure, no difference makers, but it was a heavy focus of the team.

They drafted a Center and 2 Guards, on a line with 2 young Guards (1 of which was a 1st rounder last year, while the other was one of the top ranked right guards in the NFL) and a good established Center. The issue last year was our Tackles and we still don't have a long-term solution there (and arguably not even a short term one). There's an argument for moving Onwenu to RT, but he's a better RG than RT so I wouldn't really consider that much of a positive.

[Donoghus]

Don't forget they went out and got themselves a new offensive line coach.  And one, by early accounts, is more than competent.