Patriots 2023 Season

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Horrible start to the game, followed by a classic false-hope near-comeback. D was pretty good and the offense looks improved, but you can’t give away so many plays, whether it’s turnovers, dropped passes, not getting two feet inbounds, or other miscues—those things add up, especially against good teams. I’m disappointed that the NFL gave us Philly to start, as that was pretty close to a sure loss, so it’s a loss to start the season, and a loss in Brady’s first game as a spectator. Hopefully a better start and a win next week, but I don’t have high expectations for this team.

[SparzWizard]

Sounds like the Patriots of 2022 again

[gouki88]

Sounds like the Patriots of 2022 again

Almost every single post in this thread says otherwise, the game was completely different as was the Patriots play, and we would have had a serious shot if Boutte kept his feet in.

What are you actually talking about? Did you watch the game? There are no similarities. I am so baffled at this post

[Neurotic Guy]

Sounds like the Patriots of 2022 again

Almost every single post in this thread says otherwise, the game was completely different as was the Patriots play, and we would have had a serious shot if Boutte kept his feet in.

What are you actually talking about? Did you watch the game? There are no similarities. I am so baffled at this post

This game was so not 2022.  They had an offensive game plan that they used throughout the game.... And it worked!  Mac did need to get the ball out quickly, but he did not spend the day on his butt or being chased.  The pocket held out as long as it needed to -- most of the time.  His throws were accurate - if a little soft at times.  He suffered from two bad sideline plays which would have made a huge difference, a few other drops, and a couple of bad early turnovers. 

Overall, an entertaining and pretty well-played game v. last year's SB loser.  I am really encouraged.

[Moranis]

Patriots showed some moxy and fight.  Surprised me quite a bit.  The possession after the fumble late in the game was very bad though and the sack in the last possession was also bad from a timing standpoint.  I think it threw them out of sync as the last plays of the game were not executed well.

[Vermont Green]

The Patriots held their own against what is expected to be one of the best teams in the league.  That is the good news.  The bad news was that they made a lot of mistakes.  Overall, I am more encouraged than not.

As I watched the Pats and some of the other games, it got me thinking about all the QB running you are seeing in the game.  I played linebacker in high school, at a not very high level of competition.  I mostly played outside LB, some middle LB.  On pass plays, I had coverage responsibilities (mostly covering the flats) but also if the QB scrambled in my direction, my assignment was to got get him.

These days, that LB role almost seems to have disappeared.  You have "edge rushers" and defensive linemen, and then everyone else drops back in coverage.  Now if the QB scrambles outside the pocket or up through the pocket, there is no one there.  Some times you hear talk of using a LB as a "spy" to stay with the QB if he runs but in practice, I don't think teams are doing this.

This is a long way of getting around to Mac Jones.  If most defenses are going to be designed to pass rush and cover down field, it is going to become more necessary for QBs to be able to run.  It is taking what the defense is giving you, in many cases.  Mac had 2 rushes for 15 yards.  Hurts had 9 rushes.  For contrast, Mahomes had 6 rushes, actually led the team in rushing.

I still want a "pass first" QB, for sure.  I think Mahomes is pass first, for example, but when it is there, he will tuck the ball and take off.  I am starting to wonder if Mac can be that type of QB.  Still pass first, but able to run to keep the defense honest, and if this is now necessary in today's game.

[Phantom255x]

The Patriots held their own against what is expected to be one of the best teams in the league.  That is the good news.  The bad news was that they made a lot of mistakes.  Overall, I am more encouraged than not.

As I watched the Pats and some of the other games, it got me thinking about all the QB running you are seeing in the game.  I played linebacker in high school, at a not very high level of competition.  I mostly played outside LB, some middle LB.  On pass plays, I had coverage responsibilities (mostly covering the flats) but also if the QB scrambled in my direction, my assignment was to got get him.

These days, that LB role almost seems to have disappeared.  You have "edge rushers" and defensive linemen, and then everyone else drops back in coverage.  Now if the QB scrambles outside the pocket or up through the pocket, there is no one there.  Some times you hear talk of using a LB as a "spy" to stay with the QB if he runs but in practice, I don't think teams are doing this.

This is a long way of getting around to Mac Jones.  If most defenses are going to be designed to pass rush and cover down field, it is going to become more necessary for QBs to be able to run.  It is taking what the defense is giving you, in many cases.  Mac had 2 rushes for 15 yards.  Hurts had 9 rushes.  For contrast, Mahomes had 6 rushes, actually led the team in rushing.

I still want a "pass first" QB, for sure.  I think Mahomes is pass first, for example, but when it is there, he will tuck the ball and take off.  I am starting to wonder if Mac can be that type of QB.  Still pass first, but able to run to keep the defense honest, and if this is now necessary in today's game.

It's a fair question, but we also haven't seen a mobile QB win a SB yet either. Josh Allen, Hurts, Lamar,  Fields, even Cam Newton in the past. Newton and Hurts made the SB but didn't win it. Came close.

I still think come playoff time, you need a QB that can win you some games and put together some drives solely with his arm. Even the teams that do well running the ball and/or using their QB in runs tend to falter come postseason, Lamar Jackson is a prime example of this IMO. I'd also argue even in 2019, when the Titans were relying on RB Derrick Henry, it worked for the first two games but then once a team stopped Henry, Tannehill and the others had zero answers against KC.

Jalen Hurts, to his credit, made some great passes in the NFCCG and SB last season which seemed to have more of an impact in crucial situations than using just his legs.

I certainly agree the trend is going towards mobile QBs, but that doesn't mean passing QBs can't be effective anymore. Do we think Brock Purdy is elite? He's not a mobile QB either but the team around him is loaded and he can manage a game + make the passes.

[Vermont Green]

The Patriots held their own against what is expected to be one of the best teams in the league.  That is the good news.  The bad news was that they made a lot of mistakes.  Overall, I am more encouraged than not.

As I watched the Pats and some of the other games, it got me thinking about all the QB running you are seeing in the game.  I played linebacker in high school, at a not very high level of competition.  I mostly played outside LB, some middle LB.  On pass plays, I had coverage responsibilities (mostly covering the flats) but also if the QB scrambled in my direction, my assignment was to got get him.

These days, that LB role almost seems to have disappeared.  You have "edge rushers" and defensive linemen, and then everyone else drops back in coverage.  Now if the QB scrambles outside the pocket or up through the pocket, there is no one there.  Some times you hear talk of using a LB as a "spy" to stay with the QB if he runs but in practice, I don't think teams are doing this.

This is a long way of getting around to Mac Jones.  If most defenses are going to be designed to pass rush and cover down field, it is going to become more necessary for QBs to be able to run.  It is taking what the defense is giving you, in many cases.  Mac had 2 rushes for 15 yards.  Hurts had 9 rushes.  For contrast, Mahomes had 6 rushes, actually led the team in rushing.

I still want a "pass first" QB, for sure.  I think Mahomes is pass first, for example, but when it is there, he will tuck the ball and take off.  I am starting to wonder if Mac can be that type of QB.  Still pass first, but able to run to keep the defense honest, and if this is now necessary in today's game.

It's a fair question, but we also haven't seen a mobile QB win a SB yet either. Josh Allen, Hurts, Lamar,  Fields, even Cam Newton in the past. Newton and Hurts made the SB but didn't win it. Came close.

I still think come playoff time, you need a QB that can win you some games and put together some drives solely with his arm. Even the teams that do well running the ball and/or using their QB in runs tend to falter come postseason, Lamar Jackson is a prime example of this IMO. I'd also argue even in 2019, when the Titans were relying on RB Derrick Henry, it worked for the first two games but then once a team stopped Henry, Tannehill and the others had zero answers against KC.

Jalen Hurts, to his credit, made some great passes in the NFCCG and SB last season which seemed to have more of an impact in crucial situations than using just his legs.

I certainly agree the trend is going towards mobile QBs, but that doesn't mean passing QBs can't be effective anymore. Do we think Brock Purdy is elite? He's not a mobile QB either but the team around him is loaded and he can manage a game + make the passes.

What about Mahomes?  I agree that you don't necessarily need a "running" QB like Watson or Jackson but most of the better QBs these days can run when that is what the defense leaves exposed.  Certainly Mahomes can do that.  For his career, he has averaged about 4 runs per game.  About 5 yards per.  A little more in the playoffs.  You absolutely need the arm and the ability to read coverages first and foremost.

I thought Mac was pretty good yesterday is reading the pass rush and making pocket adjustments to buy a little more time and/or avoid a sack.  That ability is a must for any QB.  But guys like Mahomes and Hurts have the quickness and athleticism to get out of the pocket, run away from DL-men.  Most often, that results in a few more seconds to find an open receiver.  Sometimes though, that results in a wide open field and an opportunity to run.

Again, this is about how I am seeing defenses adjust to pass-friendly NFL of today.  You see 4 maybe 5 players rushing the passer and then everyone else is a DB or playing like a DB.  I think it is a conscience decision to protect against big pass plays while conceding that you are going to give up some QB runs sometimes.  Mac needs to be able to take that when that is what the defense is giving him.  I am not talking about designed QB runs (KC doesn't do any of that), just having enough athleticism to get out a run enough to keep the defense honest.

I see it as a need to have a minimum level of "avoid the sack" athletic ability as well as enough ability to tuck it in and run some number of times per game (don't know what that number is).  I am not talking about design QB runs or run options.  Mahomes is obviously the quintessential of the modern QB.  Russell Wilson was ahead of his time.  As I said, I think Mac was fine yesterday against what is supposed to be a good defense.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Small sample size, but the Pats do already seem better than last year.

The bad news, though, is that their next three games are vs. Dolphins, @Jets, @Cowboys.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

From Yardbarker:

Las Vegas signed WR Jakobi Meyers, a potential [Hunter Renfrow] replacement, to a three-year, $33M deal. He shined against Denver, hauling in nine receptions for a team-high 81 receiving yards and two TDs.

Sure would be nice to still have Meyers. The Pats FINALLY developed a receiver ... and then promptly let him go.

[green_bballers13]

From Yardbarker:

Las Vegas signed WR Jakobi Meyers, a potential [Hunter Renfrow] replacement, to a three-year, $33M deal. He shined against Denver, hauling in nine receptions for a team-high 81 receiving yards and two TDs.

Sure would be nice to still have Meyers. The Pats FINALLY developed a receiver ... and then promptly let him go.

Eh, I don't think they were going to pay their undrafted WR big money. Malcolm Butler won them a Super Bowl and they still didn't pay him.

That Vegas game didn't help Meyers. Maybe it was an inside job!

[Donoghus]

From Yardbarker:

Las Vegas signed WR Jakobi Meyers, a potential [Hunter Renfrow] replacement, to a three-year, $33M deal. He shined against Denver, hauling in nine receptions for a team-high 81 receiving yards and two TDs.

Sure would be nice to still have Meyers. The Pats FINALLY developed a receiver ... and then promptly let him go.

Eh, I don't think they were going to pay their undrafted WR big money. Malcolm Butler won them a Super Bowl and they still didn't pay him.

That Vegas game didn't help Meyers. Maybe it was an inside job!

I think they're gonna be alright at the WR position.  Bourne looks locked in and despite the miscues, I think you can see the potential in Boutte.  He's only a rookie but you can see some sparks there. Douglas too.  I think Juju will be big in some games and a total disappearing act in others. They're gonna rely a ton on Henry & Gesicki, to a lesser extent, which will help alleviate the WR concern. 

I really don't think the absence of Meyers will mean much in the long haul.  Certainly not paying him $11M a year.

The big thing is that the Pats have a much more competent offensive coordinator now.  The offense looks better.

[Moranis]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

[celticsclay]

I think the bad optics on Meyers are not that the Patriots didn't want to pay him, it is that they gave basically the same contract he got to JuJu who isn't any better and has no connection to New England.  If you had that money slotted for the position, then you keep the guy you have.  Especially when that guy performed at a similar level while catching balls from Mac Jones, behind a bad OL, and terrible offensive coaching and when the other guy was catching balls from Patrick Mahomes, behind a better OL, and stable coaching.

I agree, and I just don’t see the point of drafting WRs or signing undrafted WRs with the hope of developing them … and then, when they finally hit on one (amidst many busts), they just let him go. Like, what was the point of all that time developing the guy?

Sounds like we would have had to overpay him if he would have even come back at all. Let’s be honest living in Vegas at 25 is a lot more appealing than being in a New England winter. "It's hard to turn down Las Vegas," Meyers told longtime NFL reporter Josina Anderson. "When you look at their offense, when you look at their coaches. They wanted me, I wanted them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out with the Patriots. I put a lot of effort in my time there. I appreciate them, but God works in mysterious ways. I'm blessed."