Author Topic: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?  (Read 26689 times)

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Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #225 on: August 24, 2023, 04:37:23 PM »

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I think it’s much easier to justify for a fantasy draft than in real life.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #226 on: August 24, 2023, 04:46:59 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I think it’s much easier to justify for a fantasy draft than in real life.

I pretty much ignore off the court stuff in these drafts.  They really have no relevance on how I perceive someone's team.  Now I might not draft a guy based on principal but I'm not going to hold it against someone else.

Now, if there were on the court issues or locker room issues, that's a different story. If a guy was a malcontent, selfish, or a just a bad teammate, I'm not going to assume that assembling a team here will just wave that away. I will assume that they'd still be a malcontent, selfish, or bad teammate here.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #227 on: August 24, 2023, 05:37:45 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I think it’s much easier to justify for a fantasy draft than in real life.

I pretty much ignore off the court stuff in these drafts.  They really have no relevance on how I perceive someone's team.  Now I might not draft a guy based on principal but I'm not going to hold it against someone else.

Now, if there were on the court issues or locker room issues, that's a different story. If a guy was a malcontent, selfish, or a just a bad teammate, I'm not going to assume that assembling a team here will just wave that away. I will assume that they'd still be a malcontent, selfish, or bad teammate here.
Yeah, this is how I tend to approach it. However unpalatable, it is just a fantasy game here. If it seeps onto on-court friction (guys like Kobe - who I have still drafted!) it impacts my thinking, but generally not really.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #228 on: August 24, 2023, 05:43:45 PM »

Offline theswitch

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I think it’s much easier to justify for a fantasy draft than in real life.

I pretty much ignore off the court stuff in these drafts.  They really have no relevance on how I perceive someone's team.  Now I might not draft a guy based on principal but I'm not going to hold it against someone else.

Now, if there were on the court issues or locker room issues, that's a different story. If a guy was a malcontent, selfish, or a just a bad teammate, I'm not going to assume that assembling a team here will just wave that away. I will assume that they'd still be a malcontent, selfish, or bad teammate here.
Yeah, this is how I tend to approach it. However unpalatable, it is just a fantasy game here. If it seeps onto on-court friction (guys like Kobe - who I have still drafted!) it impacts my thinking, but generally not really.

It marginally impacted my drafting because I don't want to spend the emotional energy defending someone I don't even like in the first place. But only marginal, and not my evaluation of the other teams.
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #229 on: August 24, 2023, 07:07:25 PM »

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I came to the conclusion years ago that off court issues have no impact on my viewing except in very rare circumstances.  I pretty much realized that if I held people to my own standards, I wouldn't be able to watch sports, television, movies, listen to music, shop basically anywhere, etc.  People are flawed and imperfect so if you hold their beliefs, values, etc. against them, you would literally be able to do nothing.  There are certainly a few exceptions, but it is very limited, it is extreme, and it is clear the event or belief is real.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #230 on: August 24, 2023, 08:14:28 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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With guys like King, KJ, Thompson, etc., their legal / character troubles came well after the chosen seasons.

I might not draft a young Zach Randolph, as he was immature.  That immaturity affected him off the court.  A matured Randolph?  Great player.



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Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #231 on: August 24, 2023, 10:22:21 PM »

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Starters:
Dennis Johnson: Age 24, 1978-1979 season
-   3x NBA champion, 1979 Finals MVP, 5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, All-NBA Second Team, 6x All-Defensive First Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, HoF
Sidney Moncrief: Age 25, 1982-1983 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 4x All-NBA Second Team, 2x DPoY, 4x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defense Second Team, HoF
Chris Mullin: Age 25, 1988-1989 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, All-NBA Third Team, HoF
Detlef Schrempf: Age 32, 1994-1995 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2x 6th Man of the Year
Ben Wallace: Age 29, 2003-2004 season
-   NBA champion, 4x All-star, 3x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-NBA Third Team, 4x DPoY, 5x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 2x Rebounding leader, 2002 Blocks leader, HoF

Bench:
Jo Jo White: Age 30, 1976-1977 season
-   2x NBA champion, 1976 Finals MVP, 7x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team, HoF
World B. Free: Age 26, 1979-1980 season
-   1980 All-star, All-NBA Second Team
Ron Artest: Age 24, 2003-2004 season
-   2010 NBA champion, 2004 All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2004 DPoY, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team
Tom Chambers: Age 29, 1988-1989 season
-   4x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team
Andrew Bynum: Age 24, 2011-2012 season
-   2x NBA champion, 2012 All-star, All-NBA Second Team

Deep Bench:
Buck Williams: Age 22, 1982-1983 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team,
Stephon Marbury: Age 27, 2004-2005 season
-   2x All-star, 2x All-NBA Third Team

Gonna leave this here for now. Hopefully I'll get the chance to elaborate a bit more, but just in case I don't.
2023 No Top 75 Fantasy Draft Los Angeles Clippers
PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #232 on: August 25, 2023, 09:31:12 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Starters:
Dennis Johnson: Age 24, 1978-1979 season
-   3x NBA champion, 1979 Finals MVP, 5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, All-NBA Second Team, 6x All-Defensive First Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, HoF
Sidney Moncrief: Age 25, 1982-1983 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 4x All-NBA Second Team, 2x DPoY, 4x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defense Second Team, HoF
Chris Mullin: Age 25, 1988-1989 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, All-NBA Third Team, HoF
Detlef Schrempf: Age 32, 1994-1995 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2x 6th Man of the Year
Ben Wallace: Age 29, 2003-2004 season
-   NBA champion, 4x All-star, 3x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-NBA Third Team, 4x DPoY, 5x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 2x Rebounding leader, 2002 Blocks leader, HoF

Bench:
Jo Jo White: Age 30, 1976-1977 season
-   2x NBA champion, 1976 Finals MVP, 7x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team, HoF
World B. Free: Age 26, 1979-1980 season
-   1980 All-star, All-NBA Second Team
Ron Artest: Age 24, 2003-2004 season
-   2010 NBA champion, 2004 All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2004 DPoY, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team
Tom Chambers: Age 29, 1988-1989 season
-   4x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team
Andrew Bynum: Age 24, 2011-2012 season
-   2x NBA champion, 2012 All-star, All-NBA Second Team

Deep Bench:
Buck Williams: Age 22, 1982-1983 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team,
Stephon Marbury: Age 27, 2004-2005 season
-   2x All-star, 2x All-NBA Third Team

Gonna leave this here for now. Hopefully I'll get the chance to elaborate a bit more, but just in case I don't.

Best defensive team.  Hands down.  Love the backcourt with Mullin.

Do you think you have enough offense to go toe to toe with some of the other teams in the league?  Or is the plan just to play 90s ball and muck it up?


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #233 on: August 25, 2023, 10:25:36 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Starters:
Dennis Johnson: Age 24, 1978-1979 season
-   3x NBA champion, 1979 Finals MVP, 5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, All-NBA Second Team, 6x All-Defensive First Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, HoF
Sidney Moncrief: Age 25, 1982-1983 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 4x All-NBA Second Team, 2x DPoY, 4x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defense Second Team, HoF
Chris Mullin: Age 25, 1988-1989 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, All-NBA Third Team, HoF
Detlef Schrempf: Age 32, 1994-1995 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2x 6th Man of the Year
Ben Wallace: Age 29, 2003-2004 season
-   NBA champion, 4x All-star, 3x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-NBA Third Team, 4x DPoY, 5x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 2x Rebounding leader, 2002 Blocks leader, HoF

Bench:
Jo Jo White: Age 30, 1976-1977 season
-   2x NBA champion, 1976 Finals MVP, 7x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team, HoF
World B. Free: Age 26, 1979-1980 season
-   1980 All-star, All-NBA Second Team
Ron Artest: Age 24, 2003-2004 season
-   2010 NBA champion, 2004 All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2004 DPoY, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team
Tom Chambers: Age 29, 1988-1989 season
-   4x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team
Andrew Bynum: Age 24, 2011-2012 season
-   2x NBA champion, 2012 All-star, All-NBA Second Team

Deep Bench:
Buck Williams: Age 22, 1982-1983 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team,
Stephon Marbury: Age 27, 2004-2005 season
-   2x All-star, 2x All-NBA Third Team

Gonna leave this here for now. Hopefully I'll get the chance to elaborate a bit more, but just in case I don't.

I really enjoy this team.  The defense-first philosophy is one I definitely appreciate.  I disagree with Dons that it's "hands down" the best -- Cleveland will give it competition there -- but it's easily top-2, and arguably #1.  DJ and Moncrief is the backcourt of nightmares for opposing guards. 

That said, you've got some unlikeable dudes.  Artest, Bynum, and Starbury.  None are starting.  Are these guys going to become "good soldiers" in this league?  Does chemistry matter?


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Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #234 on: August 25, 2023, 11:06:21 AM »

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Starters:
Dennis Johnson: Age 24, 1978-1979 season
-   3x NBA champion, 1979 Finals MVP, 5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, All-NBA Second Team, 6x All-Defensive First Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, HoF
Sidney Moncrief: Age 25, 1982-1983 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 4x All-NBA Second Team, 2x DPoY, 4x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defense Second Team, HoF
Chris Mullin: Age 25, 1988-1989 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, All-NBA Third Team, HoF
Detlef Schrempf: Age 32, 1994-1995 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2x 6th Man of the Year
Ben Wallace: Age 29, 2003-2004 season
-   NBA champion, 4x All-star, 3x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-NBA Third Team, 4x DPoY, 5x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 2x Rebounding leader, 2002 Blocks leader, HoF

Bench:
Jo Jo White: Age 30, 1976-1977 season
-   2x NBA champion, 1976 Finals MVP, 7x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team, HoF
World B. Free: Age 26, 1979-1980 season
-   1980 All-star, All-NBA Second Team
Ron Artest: Age 24, 2003-2004 season
-   2010 NBA champion, 2004 All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2004 DPoY, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team
Tom Chambers: Age 29, 1988-1989 season
-   4x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team
Andrew Bynum: Age 24, 2011-2012 season
-   2x NBA champion, 2012 All-star, All-NBA Second Team

Deep Bench:
Buck Williams: Age 22, 1982-1983 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team,
Stephon Marbury: Age 27, 2004-2005 season
-   2x All-star, 2x All-NBA Third Team

Gonna leave this here for now. Hopefully I'll get the chance to elaborate a bit more, but just in case I don't.

Best defensive team.  Hands down.  Love the backcourt with Mullin.

Do you think you have enough offense to go toe to toe with some of the other teams in the league?  Or is the plan just to play 90s ball and muck it up?
I think they have enough scoring 1 to 3, but I do worry a lot about that front court. Detlef and Ben may be the weakest front court and Chambers, Bynum, and Buck aren't exactly a whose who on the bench either.  And Ben played in an era where he had to face real size infrequently (Shaq, Dwight, and later DRob is about it).  I don't know how he'd hold up in this sort of thing.  Plus, Ben might be the worst offensive player in this. I had Ben on one of these and faced a lot of this criticism which I thought was fair.

I think perhaps going with Chambers instead of Detlef may provide more balance. His first 2 seasons in Phoenix he was basically at 26 and 27 a game on a team that was in the WCF both seasons.  I think he makes more sense for the scoring pop even though he wasn't the shooter Detlef was.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #235 on: August 25, 2023, 11:14:40 AM »

Offline theswitch

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Starters:
Dennis Johnson: Age 24, 1978-1979 season
-   3x NBA champion, 1979 Finals MVP, 5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, All-NBA Second Team, 6x All-Defensive First Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, HoF
Sidney Moncrief: Age 25, 1982-1983 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 4x All-NBA Second Team, 2x DPoY, 4x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defense Second Team, HoF
Chris Mullin: Age 25, 1988-1989 season
-   5x All-star, All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, All-NBA Third Team, HoF
Detlef Schrempf: Age 32, 1994-1995 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2x 6th Man of the Year
Ben Wallace: Age 29, 2003-2004 season
-   NBA champion, 4x All-star, 3x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-NBA Third Team, 4x DPoY, 5x All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 2x Rebounding leader, 2002 Blocks leader, HoF

Bench:
Jo Jo White: Age 30, 1976-1977 season
-   2x NBA champion, 1976 Finals MVP, 7x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team, HoF
World B. Free: Age 26, 1979-1980 season
-   1980 All-star, All-NBA Second Team
Ron Artest: Age 24, 2003-2004 season
-   2010 NBA champion, 2004 All-star, All-NBA Third Team, 2004 DPoY, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team
Tom Chambers: Age 29, 1988-1989 season
-   4x All-star, 2x All-NBA Second Team
Andrew Bynum: Age 24, 2011-2012 season
-   2x NBA champion, 2012 All-star, All-NBA Second Team

Deep Bench:
Buck Williams: Age 22, 1982-1983 season
-   3x All-star, All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team,
Stephon Marbury: Age 27, 2004-2005 season
-   2x All-star, 2x All-NBA Third Team

Gonna leave this here for now. Hopefully I'll get the chance to elaborate a bit more, but just in case I don't.

Best defensive team.  Hands down.  Love the backcourt with Mullin.

Do you think you have enough offense to go toe to toe with some of the other teams in the league?  Or is the plan just to play 90s ball and muck it up?
I think they have enough scoring 1 to 3, but I do worry a lot about that front court. Detlef and Ben may be the weakest front court and Chambers, Bynum, and Buck aren't exactly a whose who on the bench either.  And Ben played in an era where he had to face real size infrequently (Shaq, Dwight, and later DRob is about it).  I don't know how he'd hold up in this sort of thing.  Plus, Ben might be the worst offensive player in this. I had Ben on one of these and faced a lot of this criticism which I thought was fair.

I think perhaps going with Chambers instead of Detlef may provide more balance. His first 2 seasons in Phoenix he was basically at 26 and 27 a game on a team that was in the WCF both seasons.  I think he makes more sense for the scoring pop even though he wasn't the shooter Detlef was.

Yeah, I worry about Schrempf starting at the 4 in this exercise. I'm not too worried about Ben Wallace holding up -- I don't really see the plus-sized offensive talent in this league at the center position that is going to cause him any issues -- but I do see a bunch of guys at the 4 who are going to beat Detlef up. He's going to be hard to hide. Kemp, Jermaine, Gasol / Amare, Bosh, Rasheed, etc. etc...they'll pretty much all be tough matchups for him. There's a lot of power forward offensive talent in this league.

I like the Chambers idea, which will also help balance the offense and overcompensate for Wallace's deficiency in that area.
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #236 on: August 25, 2023, 12:07:20 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Ben played in an era where he had to face real size infrequently (Shaq, Dwight, and later DRob is about it).  I don't know how he'd hold up in this sort of thing.  Plus, Ben might be the worst offensive player in this.

I need to store this somewhere to use against you next time you select Big Ben in one of these things. ;)


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #237 on: August 25, 2023, 12:27:40 PM »

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2023 CS Historical Draft Write Up

or: why my team would eat another team for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.


TL;DR : Guys who can stay on the floor. A variety of scoring from every position, elite team and individual defence, High BBIQ end to end, and passionate players.

Generally speaking, I’ll be referring to some guy's other seasons as anecdotal evidence for how they could have performed on a different roster (like this one) - so if someone was on a fairly middling team and got swept in the first round of the playoffs by the eventual champions that given year, I don’t personally hold that against them too much.

The Starters, Part One.

~~Rasheed Wallace, 2000-20001: PF
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wallara01/gamelog/2001


Sheed is one-half of the engine that makes this machine run. He’s almost certainly one of the most skilled big man in this draft when you factor in both sides of the ball (if not the most), and since we’re evaluating how they’d perform in the modern game, one of the things that strikes me is that, watching it back now, 2000-01 Sheed looks a bit like Draymond Green… if Green had a jump shot, a post game, and three point range. When engaged, 2001 Sheed is more than capable of going up against the best bigs of the era (draft eligible or not) and he’s going toe-to-toe with them.

Another way to think about his game with regards to this draft: he’s a saner Kevin Garnett in terms of talent - we’re effectively trading KG’s ‘dawg’ for actual, proven three-point range. He’s got everything you’d want from a modern-day four (as well as a do-it-all-five in a pinch), elite team defence, and the ability to play 38 minutes+ per night.

Witness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDT9ahSLEk

You need someone to drop 40+ points? Sheed can do that.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200102200POR.html

You need someone to pull down 15+ boards? Sheed can do that:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101010POR.html

You need someone to respond in the face of adversity and step up when the referees are obviously in the bag for the opposition? Sheed can do that:


You want a guy who can give you 100 threes and 100 blocks per season? You want Rasheed Wallace.


Now, some people will say “well, your best player isn’t A SUPER MASSIVE ALPHA BASKETBALL GUY. He hasn’t got the undeniable urge to go up against the other team and jump on them until they’re in tiny little pieces and jump on them again.” Again: Kevin Garnett syndrome.

That’s true.  But that makes him a much better teammate, insofar as it comes to being positioned to help his teammates shine. Consider: Because he’s not the guy with the burning need to score an arbitrary number of points per game, or pull down every single board, or dominate the ball, he’s much more malleable offensively, and a great fit next to the aggressive scoring I’ve got from my guard positions.


~~ Tim Hardaway, 1990-1991, PG

Let’s address the most significant point right at the top: Tim Hardaway crossed up everybody. Payton? Crossed. Stockton? Crossed. Jordan? Crossed. If you wound up guarding him, Tim Hardaway crossed you up.

And if Sheed’s problem is that he didn’t have a burning desire to be ‘the guy’ Hardaway more than makes up for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezs0Ra3uUcw

2.6 steals per game, 23-4-10, 38% from deep with 3:1 Assist to turnover ratio whilst playing over 40MPG for more than half the season.

And we know his game would translate into different eras and different stages of athleticism, because he was still playing at a high level on massive minutes on a very successful Miami Heat team when he was on the wrong side of 30 . TMC Hardaway translates better to the modern game, but in a possible post-season, when the games get slower, there’s no doubt he’d be able to thrive.

~~Joakim Noah, 2013-2014, C


If we think about our defensive-minded frontcourt that needs to be in the position to make the right pass on offence, set great screens for our ball handlers, and get points on the board if we need to, it would be foolish to go with someone who isn’t Joakim Noah. Probably the best defensive center of his era, the anchor of those Bulls teams, and another iron man when it comes to minutes played (and before Thibs ground him into dust). But he’s also a singular player, and this description of him from this season really sums it up:

Quote
One of the great things about watching Joakim Noah is that he is totally a new breed of player. That's rare in the NBA; most stars are, at the very least, homages to legends gone by. Kevin Durant is a smoother Larry Bird, or a longer George Gervin, or something in between. LeBron James is an explosive, strong Magic Johnson. Stephen Curry is Steve Nash with a selfish streak. Chris Paul is Isiah Thomas.

Noah is ... Ben Wallace with guard skills? That doesn't make sense, because part of what made Ben Wallace Ben Wallace was that he had no skills. None that weren't related to rotating and rebounding, at least. Tim Duncan with fast-twitch muscles and a Chardonnay buzz? That's not quite right -- the results may match that definition, but the style isn't remotely close. And that's the whole thing with Noah: the style he plays in no way matches his production. He plays like an erratic Bond villain, yet he puts up Duncanian lines. On Monday, he finished with 13 points, 11 rebounds, four assists, two steals and a block.

Noah's wild man energy makes him one of the league's most valuable defenders. The work he and Butler did to aggravate LeBron was mesmerizing. Noah is really the perfect on-court embodiment of Tom Thibodeau -- as close to the defensive mania of Kevin Garnett as we've seen. (Is that the right comp for Noah -- Weird Garnett? Hmm.) Over the past two years, JoNo has added a great deal of skill to the package of energy and smarts. He's always known his way around the court, but he's now crisp. He flails into mystifyingly solid screens. He puts his head down, gets his limbs cranking in a fashion reminiscent of QWOP and somehow ends up with a textbook layup. He watches the lane with that crazed look, wiry arms holding the ball high... and he hits the cutter like a prime Divac.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/7/4307964/joakim-noah-bulls-vs-heat-2013-unique


12.6-11.3-5.4.  73% from the line with that incredibly awful free throw form.  You can't look away. Monster on defense. Noah makes the game of basketball look like a Hieronymus Bosch painting, and I'm here for it. So are you.


~~Glen Rice, 1996-1997 SF.


Truth be told, this is one where the numbers could do all the talking. If we’re putting together a modern-day team with Roscoe, Noah, and Tim Bug, you need a sharpshooter on the perimeter who can chase guys through screens and keep defenders honest. Glen Rice is the best player available to fit that role.

And, yeah, given the draft format of course I’m going to pick the shortened three point line season where he shot 47% beyond the arc, I’m not that stupid - but that’s not the catch-all explainer people think it is, because:

G Money averaged 40% from deep for his career, and the league overall shot 36% from deep that season - so even with the shortened line he was still 11% over the average.

But even his insane deep shooting doesn’t do him justice: this isn’t a guy who sat in the corner waiting for his shots - he’s not Steve Kerr. Take a look at these highlights, and his 60% TS really starts to evolve. Rice was a pure scorer, period:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTPlvbTzuaw

In terms of fit, he’s obviously capable of being a championship-calibre player (2000 with Los Angeles), and even when he was lighting it up he’s still a pretty low-usage player (27% on the season selected, but his effectiveness doesn’t diminish with a smaller role as evidenced by his career.)

~~ Alvin Robinson, 1985-1986, SG

Most modern NBA teams rely on a lockdown wing defender and head-on-a-swivel defence from the bigs. Between Sheed and Noah, I’m not at all worried about our interior defense, so it’s time to look to the wings.

Consider this: the only reason the guy isn’t a hall-of-Famer is because he’s reputationally repugnant. Averaging 17-6-5 with 3.7 steals this season, he’s not much of a three-point shooter at this point in his career but that’s more or less the only knock on him you can have, especially since he clearly could shoot (almost 80% from the line, and over 50% from the field.

I am terrified that this novel is going to get 86'd by logging out, so I'm going to share this now. The bench writeup will be coming at some point? And hopefully it's a bit shorter - much more interested to hear what everyone else things.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #238 on: August 25, 2023, 12:34:17 PM »

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PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Gilbert Arenas / Jason Williams
SG: Alvin Robertson / Tony Allen
SF: Glen Rice / Mark Aguirre
PF: Rasheed Wallace / Carlos Boozer / Derrick Coleman
C: Joakim Noah / Arvydas Sabonis

Any thought to playing Rasheed at center and putting one of your prolific scoring PFs in the starting lineup?  Is yours the most emotionally explosive team in the league?

No qualms with Sheed as a do-it-all 5 (he was essentially this in Boston, albeit fairly past his prime), but I'm not in love with the idea of a Wallace-Boozer frontcourt. Chicago made Noah and Boozer work, of course, but I don't think there's enough overlap with Roscoe and Noah to make it work for long stretches.

My squad is probably the most likely to blow a Wednesday road trip game in February before the all-star break and slouch into the press conference going "both teams played hard my man." That's for sure. But we've got Big Sabonis for some perspective & levity (my team is also probably the most-smoke filled private flight, but that's a bit closer to call).
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #239 on: August 25, 2023, 01:53:50 PM »

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PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Gilbert Arenas / Jason Williams
SG: Alvin Robertson / Tony Allen
SF: Glen Rice / Mark Aguirre
PF: Rasheed Wallace / Carlos Boozer / Derrick Coleman
C: Joakim Noah / Arvydas Sabonis

Any thought to playing Rasheed at center and putting one of your prolific scoring PFs in the starting lineup?  Is yours the most emotionally explosive team in the league?

I am not sure how well Sheed could play the five in this league. He was more of a PF/SF in his early Portland years than a PF/C he was in his Detroit years. He was thinner. Not as strong physically. He could struggle with the more physical PFs in the league like Karl Malone. That is what Portland had Brian Grant for. To handle those sorts of guys. Sheed was a secondary defensive option on them.

I forget where exactly his body was in 2001. Somewhere between too small (POR early years late 90s) and fully developed heft (DET years, late POR years). So this idea is not that precise ... but my expectation is that Sheed could play part time center in this league. That he could work against certain matchups and not others. Therefore would be a bad full time option at starting center.