2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP!

[Moranis]

Got some spacing for Roy. Drazen has the 3rd highest career 3pt%. His last season 22.3 ppg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 rpg, 52.9% from 2, 44.9% from 3, 87% from line (on 5.2 attempts). Such a pure shooter and scorer. Solid team player. Good fit for the team.

I hadn't thought much about this but how highly would he rate as a scorer in this league of ours under the current day rules? Would Drazen be a top 5 scorer in the league? Top 10?

He's gotta be up there. Somewhere pretty high. He'd be close to unguardable in today's league. His ability to stretch the court. He has enough handles to drive. No hand-checking. More air-space to attack than he had in the early 90s.

I personally had him as the highest rated SG in the entire draft because I do really think he is one of the best shooters ever (I think you could reasonably argue him against anyone that isn't Steph) and because I think his skill set would translate so well in this thing (like Carter was a better #1 option, but if Carter is your #1 here, I'm not sure your team is good enough - same with other SG's here). Had he not died, he was going to be a better Ray Allen.  Every year he got better and by leaps and bounds and was still on the up swing despite being older. I know that is part of the conundrum of him though, but even still he was a deadly shooter on a good volume for the era.  Perfect fit for this scenario and more specifically my team.

[gouki88]

Chicago: Probably the most balanced offensive firepower in the league thus far. Borderline unstoppable offensive grouping, led by the top individual offensive peak in the draft pool. I would probably like to see some high level defenders added to the group, as I think that is the only concern. Maybe a defensive big man to cover for the others. Not sure it matters too much with how many points that team will put up. The pairing of T-Mac & Thompson is nasty.

Utah: Grant Hill surrounded by the kind of players someone like Hill would thrive alongside. Parker is the ideal PG next to a point forward. Iso Joe is a favourite of mine, and I like the big man pairing. Skilled, long, powerful. The whole team is huge asides from Parker. 3PT shooting is probably the only worry, but there are lots of shooters that are available in the pool.

Memphis: This is a fun team with lots of offensive skill. Kemba-Carter-English-Aldridge are all huge + types in terms of offensive skill. Yao is also the most unique player in the draft pool. The perimeter defence might not be too consistent, but I think there are multiple ways to go from here. Continue collecting offensive monsters and just out-score everyone (against Chicago, that would be fun), or grab some defenders.

Denver: I'm intrigued to see where you go to round out your 5, noting Sikma is off the bench. I think KJ and Zo in the PnR would be lethal, let alone with Bernard King operating in that too. Jones is a very high level spacer on the perimeter. I think another floor spacer to allow KJ, Zo and Bernard King to work inside the arc would allow for a really tough look. A couple of shooting swings come to mind.

Toronto: Love the modern defence this team could provide. Switching everything on the perimeter whilst anchored by Gasol & Jones would allow for some great play. Penny is exceptional, and I think the trio of he, Westphal and English causes some serious problems. I have no difficulty envisioning Gasol shooting more 3s in an offence with this group around him.

OKC: Nasty, nasty team. Taking the 'surround Dwight with shooters' idea to an extreme and deadly extent. 2 incredible dunking athletes, 2 pure shooting snipers, and a great floor general who can do a bit of everything. The defence of Redd & Peja is average, but the defence of your other 3 ranges from strong to legendary. Love the balance of the team. Only potential issue would be the ball movement might get stifled.

LA Clippers: Probably the toughest defensive backcourt in the competition, alongside Ben Wallace. I like that you've gone and grabbed two shooters in Mullins & Schrempf. Detlef in particular allows for some real flexibility in the coming rounds, as you can play him off the bench with ease. I think big perimeter players might be an issue defensively, but there's a couple of wings (1 especially) who could help there.

Orlando: best team of all time.

Brooklyn: The Petrovic addition opens the team up a lot for me. I was wondering how you would balance the interior demolition crew you had thus far. Beyond that, some really high level offensive talent in your front court - only Roy's team could (IMO) withstand that defensively. Cheeks is an ideal low-ego defensive guard to keep it all running, as seen with his Philly teams. I would like another shooter, but the team is huge.

Cleveland: As alluded to, I think the defence of this group is probably my favourite. Especially if they go Manu-Iggy-AK47-Brand-Mutombo. Who could score on that group? Spacing is probably my only real concern, but with that kind of physicality it might be a case of just building off that point of difference. The group has several of my favourites in AK47, Brand & Manu.

Sacramento: Really skilled team. Supremely so. Marion alongside Price is a great pairing, as Price is essentially proto-Nash to me. Surrounding that with skilled size in Vlade, shooting and scoring in Richmond, and all-round versatility in Lucas is really intriguing. Defensively strong too, especially in the frontcourt. Richmond, Marion & Lucas all have positional versatility too.

Washington: This team would be infuriating. Joakim & Sheed will lure the opposition into so many mistakes. Skilled size up front, elite shooter in Rice, defensive menace in Robertson and one of the most dazzling PGs running the floor in Hardaway. I think this team would probably be the best at embarrassing the opposition.

Love them all!

[gouki88]

Got some spacing for Roy. Drazen has the 3rd highest career 3pt%. His last season 22.3 ppg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 rpg, 52.9% from 2, 44.9% from 3, 87% from line (on 5.2 attempts). Such a pure shooter and scorer. Solid team player. Good fit for the team.

I hadn't thought much about this but how highly would he rate as a scorer in this league of ours under the current day rules? Would Drazen be a top 5 scorer in the league? Top 10?

He's gotta be up there. Somewhere pretty high. He'd be close to unguardable in today's league. His ability to stretch the court. He has enough handles to drive. No hand-checking. More air-space to attack than he had in the early 90s.

I personally had him as the highest rated SG in the entire draft because I do really think he is one of the best shooters ever (I think you could reasonably argue him against anyone that isn't Steph) and because I think his skill set would translate so well in this thing (like Carter was a better #1 option, but if Carter is your #1 here, I'm not sure your team is good enough - same with other SG's here). Had he not died, he was going to be a better Ray Allen.  Every year he got better and by leaps and bounds and was still on the up swing despite being older. I know that is part of the conundrum of him though, but even still he was a deadly shooter on a good volume for the era.  Perfect fit for this scenario and more specifically my team.

I love Petrovic, but how much better do you think he was going to get? He would have been 29 by the time his next season started, had he not died.

[smokeablount]

4 of 6 targets gone, with 7 picks until I’m next at 6.8.

Love my starters, but not sure my 6th man targets are going to work out.

[Who]

Figured Vlade would be a good counter to Lucas.  Trying to balance grittiness & finesse with the team I'm building.  Emphasis on ball movement too.

Like a budget Bill Walton. Recreating that dynamic. They were a great duo Walton and Lucas. Ying and yang. Worked so well together.

[Who]

Got some spacing for Roy. Drazen has the 3rd highest career 3pt%. His last season 22.3 ppg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 rpg, 52.9% from 2, 44.9% from 3, 87% from line (on 5.2 attempts). Such a pure shooter and scorer. Solid team player. Good fit for the team.

I hadn't thought much about this but how highly would he rate as a scorer in this league of ours under the current day rules? Would Drazen be a top 5 scorer in the league? Top 10?

He's gotta be up there. Somewhere pretty high. He'd be close to unguardable in today's league. His ability to stretch the court. He has enough handles to drive. No hand-checking. More air-space to attack than he had in the early 90s.

I personally had him as the highest rated SG in the entire draft because I do really think he is one of the best shooters ever (I think you could reasonably argue him against anyone that isn't Steph) and because I think his skill set would translate so well in this thing (like Carter was a better #1 option, but if Carter is your #1 here, I'm not sure your team is good enough - same with other SG's here). Had he not died, he was going to be a better Ray Allen.  Every year he got better and by leaps and bounds and was still on the up swing despite being older. I know that is part of the conundrum of him though, but even still he was a deadly shooter on a good volume for the era.  Perfect fit for this scenario and more specifically my team.

Yeah, Drazen had a lot of volume. It was just 20-22 foot jumpers instead of 23 foot jump shots. But he took a load of long jump shots. They would all be 3s nowadays. He would be one of the most prolific three point shooters in the league.

[gouki88]

I've got 2 picks in the 6th and 1 in the 7th. Hoping to get some players that will allow me some flexibility. I think I'm firm on Porter as a starter, at least at the moment, but could see a bigger wing in his place if needed and going with Dumars at the point.

I love the duo of Porter and Dumars for my grouping. DJ and Moncrief is the best defensive duo, but I think Porter & Dumars is 2nd. Both strong, good shooters. Porter in 90-91 was a genuine star.

[theswitch]

Some thoughts all the way around on a bunch of really well constructed teams:

Chicago: Man, the scoring on the wing is phenomenal. The rim is going to break with Griffin there too. Williams is going to have a field day. And then Lanier is really nice although the argument on his durability is a fair one at this point in his career. So maybe you need another big man / center to shore that up. I suppose defense on the wing is the biggest concern here, and a secondary concern that Thompson, McGrady, Griffin are all looking to score once they get the ball and Deron is a high usage / high assists point guard. So it'll be interesting to feel out how you make team offense work with so much individual talent. Which is of course there.

Utah: Love the fit up and down the roster. Iso Joe has a ballhog connotation but I always thought that was unfair -- he's a high assist rate guy who has shown he can play off others (like early in his career in Phoenix). It felt like he was forced into Iso Joe in Atlanta because that's what the team needed. I think he and Parker are fun complements to Grant Hill -- can run the show if you need it, but happy to play off. Bosh and Gilmore are nice complements too. A really strong roster that's effectively built around Hill...which was a gamble in taking him. It worked so far.

Memphis: The scoring, scoring, scoring. Really cool and fun. Kemba, Carter, English, Aldridge are going to all put up points without breaking a sweat, and then you still have Yao. Feels like the defense needs some help. I like Aldridge as a defender but the perimeter crew is going to be leaky at best, and it feels like you're relying on Yao to solve your problems if they get beaten. Plenty of time to find some balance, but that's where I'd look.

Denver: One of my favorites. So much fit up and down the roster and I'm curious to see which way you go at power forward. Jones helped bring it all together IMO with his perimeter defense, and Mourning is the rock in the middle. King and Johnson seem like luxury picks with that surrounding crew and they fit in nicely. Agree on the spacing probably but a really nice core.

Toronto: My team. I'm really happy with the passing and team orientation, and the team defense. I feel good defensively 1-5 and think they'll play the switching game really well. Hard to find a matchup to take advantage of. The passing coupled with the backcourt prowess gets me excited. In retrospect I probably reached on Gasol who may have been available later, and probably Jones too. I underestimated the amount of center talent in this draft and the dropoff between Gasol and guys who are still even there is substantial, but not crazy. Maybe I would've been better served taking a Kemp instead. Ah well. Still time to fill a few holes but overall happy.

Oklahoma City: Love this team as well. Shooters around Dwight and Kemp! Cool stuff. Maybe a couple concerns around wing defense but I think that's okay. The main question I have is on penetration -- feels like Chauncey has a lot of pressure to make things happen for Peja and Redd, and then for Kemp and Howard, because the big men aren't going to be creators for others and the shooters are capable drivers but that's not really their thing. It'd be fun to plug in a change of pace guy for when the offense stagnates. I could see a world where they just dump it to Dwight and everyone else stands around. But that's nitpicking, one of my top teams.

Los Angeles: I'm running out of steam typing all this! Killer defensive backcourt, Mullin is a great team glue piece. My opinion on this team depends a lot on the power forward position and how you fill it out. Maybe similar to my team. I think Schrempf gets beaten up quite a bit in this format, but he's a great sixth man. So TBD on how that comes together. The pieces are all there for this to be a contender.

Ah -- that took longer than I thought...I'm slow these days. I've got to run out the door but I'll think about the rest and post later on.

[celticinorlando]

Now the work begins. Have a lot of targets that are waiting to be picked.

[smokeablount]

Going with 07-08 DWill that basically shot 50-40-80 with 19-10.5-3. And was a total stud in the playoffs.

Love the spacing and PnR game he provides. All my starters can score inside/out and all share the ball.

My other 4 starters all finished top 4 in MVP voting in the seasons I selected. I need to verify, but if you remove the non eligible players ahead of them, I believe I have 4 now league MVPs on my team.

In DWill, David Thompson, TMac, Blake and Lanier I believe I’ve got top 2 positional talent at both wing spots, and top 5 positional talent at the other starting spots. I really like my starters. Now I need to find complementary players to fill my reserve spots.

Still love OKC and Denver. Memphis still looks scary offensively, and those Utah starters look like a handful. Orlando too. Not a team I dislike here.

[Who]

I am watching a Suns Sonics game from 1994. Interesting little clip in an interview where Barkley talks about Shawn Kemp and how he (Barkley) is not as talented as Kemp. That he needs to use his "veteran tricks" to outplay him. To use his emotions against him. Barkley talked about how his emotions spur him on (in good times) but work against him when things are going badly. It is his job, Barkley's job, to try and use those emotions against Kemp.

As the commentator pointed after the clip, the game turned out exactly that way. Kemp dominated Q1 dunking over everyone, pulling down rebounds, blocking shots, getting the crowd into, spurring his teammates on as SEA built up a double digit lead. Then came the foul trouble early Q2 and Kemp got in a funk after sitting on the bench for awhile. Emotionally couldn't get back into the game. Got frustrated with subsequent foul. PHO worked their way back into the game and took the lead. Then built up a double digit lead of their own in Q3.

Interesting analysis by Sir Charles. Also interesting to hear him say he thought Kemp was more talented than him. I wonder if he just meant more physically talented than him but I don't think he did.

Update: Shawn Kemp comes back into the game in Q4. Throws down a great dunk, scores some, rebounds some, challenges some shots, gets everyone pumped up again and helps lead a huge Sonics Q4 run to lead them to the win. They were ahead 31-12 in Q4 scoring near the end. Kemp revived them from the dead. Meanwhile it was Barkley who lost his cool late on and Phoenix went without a FG for almost 6 minutes.

[Who]

One of the strange things with Schrempf's shooting I realized a few months ago when rewatching old Sonics games was how infrequently he shot three pointers.

I always thought of him as a sharp shooter. And he kinda was. He actually shot 42% from three over the final 6 and a bit years (only played final 26gms last year). But he did not have much volume.

I looked at the year he had in 1995 which was probably his best season. An All-Star season. 19ppg 6rpg 4apg 52% FG% 51% 84% FT% 64% TS%. Fantastic season. Schrempf shot about 2 threes a game that year. The league leader shot 600 threes that season. Schrempf only 180. Schrempf ranked 77th in the league in terms of total three point attempts.

Schrempf had a slow sorta set shot. He did not shoot 3s off of movement or off the dribble. He liked to be set and ready. A stand still shooter. That reduced his volume a lot.

He was a great shooter but he was more of a two point shooter. A short jump-shot in the 10-15 feet range and a midrange shooter 15-17 feet range. Those are the shots he would take off the dribble or contested types shots. He would shoot open or pump fake & one dribble in 18-22 foot long two point shots but rarely more complicated than that. If it was a more complicated move, he liked to be in closer.

When I was thinking about him entering the draft, I thought Schrempf would still be a lower volume but highly accurate three point shooter today. So 3-4 attempts per game (insead of his 2 in mid 90s) but not a medium volume (5-7 threes per game) or high volume (7-10 threes per game).

I don't consider Schrempf a shooter the same I do Peja or G Rice who can shoot off of movement. And some off of basic dribble movements. I consider Schrempf more of a 2 point guy. A guy who uses his 6-10 frame to get off good shots more in the post and midrange who can also step outside and knock open shots down at a high clip but low volume.

[Moranis]

Got some spacing for Roy. Drazen has the 3rd highest career 3pt%. His last season 22.3 ppg, 3.5 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 rpg, 52.9% from 2, 44.9% from 3, 87% from line (on 5.2 attempts). Such a pure shooter and scorer. Solid team player. Good fit for the team.

I hadn't thought much about this but how highly would he rate as a scorer in this league of ours under the current day rules? Would Drazen be a top 5 scorer in the league? Top 10?

He's gotta be up there. Somewhere pretty high. He'd be close to unguardable in today's league. His ability to stretch the court. He has enough handles to drive. No hand-checking. More air-space to attack than he had in the early 90s.

I personally had him as the highest rated SG in the entire draft because I do really think he is one of the best shooters ever (I think you could reasonably argue him against anyone that isn't Steph) and because I think his skill set would translate so well in this thing (like Carter was a better #1 option, but if Carter is your #1 here, I'm not sure your team is good enough - same with other SG's here). Had he not died, he was going to be a better Ray Allen.  Every year he got better and by leaps and bounds and was still on the up swing despite being older. I know that is part of the conundrum of him though, but even still he was a deadly shooter on a good volume for the era.  Perfect fit for this scenario and more specifically my team.

I love Petrovic, but how much better do you think he was going to get? He would have been 29 by the time his next season started, had he not died.

He only played in the league 4 years and had made leaps in each year.  I think he would have topped 25 ppg and would have improved his passing and rebounding.  His passing, in particular, he was improving a lot every season.  I think he'd have gotten up into the 5 apg range, which would have just opened up the shooting even more.  I mean he was a MVP in Europe and was one of the first Euros to come over.  There was an adjustment period, but in Jersey he really started to click.  It is all subjective obviously since he died, but I think he would have been a better version of Ray Allen even if just for a couple of seasons before he got too old.

[RPGenerate]

One of the strange things with Schrempf's shooting I realized a few months ago when rewatching old Sonics games was how infrequently he shot three pointers.

I always thought of him as a sharp shooter. And he kinda was. He actually shot 42% from three over the final 6 and a bit years (only played final 26gms last year). But he did not have much volume.

I looked at the year he had in 1995 which was probably his best season. An All-Star season. 19ppg 6rpg 4apg 52% FG% 51% 84% FT% 64% TS%. Fantastic season. Schrempf shot about 2 threes a game that year. The league leader shot 600 threes that season. Schrempf only 180. Schrempf ranked 77th in the league in terms of total three point attempts.

Schrempf had a slow sorta set shot. He did not shoot 3s off of movement or off the dribble. He liked to be set and ready. A stand still shooter. That reduced his volume a lot.

He was a great shooter but he was more of a two point shooter. A short jump-shot in the 10-15 feet range and a midrange shooter 15-17 feet range. Those are the shots he would take off the dribble or contested types shots. He would shoot open or pump fake & one dribble in 18-22 foot long two point shots but rarely more complicated than that. If it was a more complicated move, he liked to be in closer.

When I was thinking about him entering the draft, I thought Schrempf would still be a lower volume but highly accurate three point shooter today. So 3-4 attempts per game (insead of his 2 in mid 90s) but not a medium volume (5-7 threes per game) or high volume (7-10 threes per game).

I don't consider Schrempf a shooter the same I do Peja or G Rice who can shoot off of movement. And some off of basic dribble movements. I consider Schrempf more of a 2 point guy. A guy who uses his 6-10 frame to get off good shots more in the post and midrange who can also step outside and knock open shots down at a high clip but low volume.

That's fair. I think he's more the type to use his three point shot to open up his game and force people to guard him behind the three point line, but not as one of his main weapons. I'll have to think about how I'll use him, whether as the starting big man or as a sort of super 6th man.

[Who]

Is Sheed the 3rd best PF in the league?

This is considering Pau at center and Amare at PF for that Nets team. I have C Webb #1 Kemp #2 Sheed #3. Tempted by LMA and Blake to round out the top 5.