2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP!

[theswitch]

The Raptors are going to punt on another traditional big man and take Marques Johnson. I'm running into a meeting so I don't have the time for a huge write-up but...Paul Westphal's All-NBA teammate was good at everything. Passing and leading an offense, low post efficiency from the wing position, a nice outside shot, absolutely excellent defense. He's simply great.

So that rounds out my first five. Penny - Westphal - Johnson - Jones - Gasol. We'll likely look for a little more beef up front at some point, but I like the offensive explosiveness of the backcourt, the passing 1-5, the range from everyone but Jones, and the extraordinary team defense of the 3-5 on top of above average play in the defensive backcourt. And good teammates all the way around.

[gouki88]

Iso Joe & Marques Johnson, great end to the round. Love both of these guys

[Who]

Almost forgot about this.

The Jazz select Joe Johnson

Yeah, I had Joe ranked as a starter. Or maybe 6th man. I had him starting at either SG or SF. So well rounded compared to many other SGs. He could defend, rebound, handle the ball, pass and score. He could score in the post, in the mirange, from the perimeter. Off ball. On ball. Total package.

He'll be a very good glue guy in this setup.


I don't think Joe gets enough credit. He got labelled with that iso-ball stuff and people started to overlook all the positive things he did do out there. He was a really tough cover. And he could've been much more efficient as a #2 or #3 option as he showed in Phoenix playing next to Nash (#4 option there).

[Who]

The Raptors are going to punt on another traditional big man and take Marques Johnson. I'm running into a meeting so I don't have the time for a huge write-up but...Paul Westphal's All-NBA teammate was good at everything. Passing and leading an offense, low post efficiency from the wing position, a nice outside shot, absolutely excellent defense. He's simply great.

So that rounds out my first five. Penny - Westphal - Johnson - Jones - Gasol. We'll likely look for a little more beef up front at some point, but I like the offensive explosiveness of the backcourt, the passing 1-5, the range from everyone but Jones, and the extraordinary team defense of the 3-5 on top of above average play in the defensive backcourt. And good teammates all the way around.

Marques Johnson is a candidate for the most well-rounded SF in this draft. He is a 7 or 8 out of 10 at every single skill you want your SF to have.

He can post. He can hit the midrange. The outside shot. He was very good in transition. He can move without the ball. He could play point forward. He had handles. He had passing ability. He was a strong defensive player. He was the best defender on that team until Moncrief came of age and even then he was the 2nd best defender. It is a shame he never got on an All-Defensive team. A strong rebounder to finish it all off.

The other candidates for most well-rounded SF would be McGrady and Grant Hill who both went in the top 5 of the draft. Sorry, top 2, they were the first and second picks overall. McGrady did not play consistent defense. Grant had a sketchy jump shot. Marques had no weaknesses.

Now maybe you want to tweak it because Grant was a 10 out of 10 type ball-handler and passer and you may still view him as the most well-rounded despite the weakness ... fair enough.

Either way, Marques is a candidate for most well rounded SF. I had 4th on my SF list overall behind the two players named above and Bernard King. I had Marques as a 2nd round pick.

I always feel like Marques was the Paul Pierce type player of his era. Extremely well rounded and just as good or almost as good as the top SFs of his era (minus Bird). As I said in the past, Marques was to Dr J what Pierce was to Kobe. Less fanfare but almost as good.

Top playoff performer as well. Some huge runs prior to Moncrief joining the team. More consistent than Moncrief in the post-season afterwards as well. Moncrief went missing in a few of those series in the early 80s. Yet, Marques is remembered so much differently than Moncrief. Not nearly the plaudits.

[Kernewek]

Almost forgot about this.

The Jazz select Joe Johnson

I nearly went this way with my pick - great call

[Who]

I was just listening to an interview today with Marques Johnson done by Kermit Washington. The guy that punched Rudy T back in the day. Yeah, he has a podcast. It is called the 20-20 podcast. He only has a small number of interviews. About 6-8 NBA guys interviewed. 2 with the agent David Falk. I have listened to a couple of them. Some good stories about the league in the early 80s. Kermit talks about the 80s more than the late 70s in his interviews that I have listened to so far.

They were telling some stories about the Clippers. They were both on the Clippers albeit at different times. They had some of the same teammates. They were also talking about some of the guys they competed against. Marques played SF primarily but also some PF early in his career and he said he switched to SG in a different interview at one point. Kermit played PF. So they competed against many of the same guys. And against each other.

Marques had a couple of Bernard King stories. One in college where King and some teammates were banging and hollering on the doors of the UCLA locker room talking about how they were going to kick their ass. Marques just turned to a teammate and said dunk-fest and they whipped them by 20pts. Typical NYC player behaviour. Loads of trash talk and intimidation. King was always at it and so too were most of the guys out of NYC. They always felt they could intimidate the west coast guys like Marques.

Another one was in the NBA against King when he was talking about how hard King worked for position in the post. It was exhausting. He said he'd just give him position some times and try to block it from there because it was too much effort to deny him the post. Exaggerating / joking I assume but good image of the work rate of King. Kermit Washington was a fan of King's too. They talked about his "game-face" that he was famous for. The intensity. How he wanted to fight you. Beat you. Great competitor. They had a lot of admiration for King.

Kermit also talked about Marques and said he thought Marques was the best SF in the league after Doc started to get old. I presume this was around 1983 or so.

Must have forgotten Bird ... anyway.


Kermit is good to listen to. Nice calm voice. Thoughtful. In a different interview, at least I think it was a different interview, he talked about making the All-Star team one year but knowing he wasn't really an All-Star. He was having a good year filling in for an injured Mo Lucas in Portland at PF but knew he'd have to move aside once Lucas returned from injury.

He had a funny story about that as well. Coach Ramsay decided to bring Lucas off the bench when he returned. Mo Lucas did not like that. Lucas was an enforcer known for roughing up the opposing team. Instead, he started roughing up his own team in practices and knocking them around until he got back in the starting lineup. Kermit volunteered to step aside for Mo Lucas but he ended up back in the starting lineup when another one of their big men got injured. So he played next to Mo with Mo at center.

[Who]

Almost forgot about this.

The Jazz select Joe Johnson

I nearly went this way with my pick - great call

I was thinking about him too.

Prior to the draft, I was thinking about him even more as a SF than a SG. That big body of his at 240lbs. He can battle with the power SFs while still giving that high level three point shooting. Some secondary passing and handles. I really liked him at the three.

I liked JJ more as a glue guy SF than some of the defensive forwards and more than some of the offense-only SFs.

[smokeablount]

Lot of good rosters. Gouki, any chance we can get an update on the teams page after the 5th round to see teams potential starters?

[gouki88]

Lot of good rosters. Gouki, any chance we can get an update on the teams page after the 5th round to see teams potential starters?

Planning on doing do during my lunch break!

[theswitch]

Who is doing my work for me on Marques! Love it.

I thought this Sports Quarterly's Basketball Special article from 1979-80 was interesting. Written by one of the OG sports journos, Frank Litsky.

“Let’s say you’re starting an expansion franchise,” he said. You can pick any five players. Who would they be?” The question isn’t easy, and the answer isn’t easy. Do you pick an all-star team? Do you favor youth over experience? Do you look for team players or individual stars?

The voters seemed to agree that the most important qualities should be youth, defensive ability, and box-office attraction. They also wanted players who would complement one another.

The front-court players who received the most votes were Bill Walton, the new center of the San Diego Clippers; Moses Malone of the Houston Rockets; Marques Johnson of the Milwaukee Bucks; and [redacted player]. The backcourt favorites were Dennis Johnson of the Seattle SuperSonics; Paul Westphal of the Suns; George Gervin of the San Antonio Spurs; and [redacted] of the Kansas City Kings.

Johnson was picked as both power forward and small forward, and his 13 votes were the most received by anyone. Walton and Dennis Johnson were next with 12 each, and [redacted] had 10. In other words, the people who should know pro basketball the best say the most desirable superstar in the game is 23-year-old Marques Johnson.

I'm not sure yet I would take this risk in this league, but I've been wondering if you could get away with playing Marques at power forward and Bobby Jones at small forward when the matchups were more physical at the power forward position (not that Bobby couldn't bang). These snippets were interesting:

His upper body is muscular and strong. He has a 33 ½ -inch waist, but he requires size-35 trousers because his thighs are so large. He has long arms (his shirts have a 38-inch sleeve), and he has the grace, style, and smoothness of a little man. He is quick enough and strong enough to rebound with one hand when necessary.

Something like how PJ Tucker can be a problem defensively at the power forward spot too because he's just so hard to move off the spot. I probably wouldn't argue for it because it's too risky and frankly Bobby Jones can handle it anyways, but I like the option value of those thighs and his wingspan.

[smokeablount]

Lot of good rosters. Gouki, any chance we can get an update on the teams page after the 5th round to see teams potential starters?

Planning on doing do during my lunch break!

TP you’re the man!

[Who]

Lot of good rosters. Gouki, any chance we can get an update on the teams page after the 5th round to see teams potential starters?

Planning on doing do during my lunch break!

TP you’re the man!

Yes! Great job. Thank you very much Gouki.

[Who]

My favourite roster thus far is the one that stole the show in the 4th round picking up Bob Lanier and Blake Griffin adding them to two top picks early on with Tracy McGrady and David Thompson. That team is incredible.

I love B Griffin next to Lanier. A mobile athletic PF next to Lanier in the pivot. Two athletic wings. Impossible for the opposing team's defense to know where the attack is going to come from. Get all 3 of those guys moving off the ball off of Lanier's high post passing from the elbows. Beautiful.

[Moranis]

The problem with Lanier is he missed 20 games basically every eligible season except one when he was well past his prime.  He just couldn't stay on the court post-merger. 

[smokeablount]

quote author=Moranis link=topic=108284.msg3182167#msg3182167 date=1691456915]
The problem with Lanier is he missed 20 games basically every eligible season except one when he was well past his prime.  He just couldn't stay on the court post-merger.
[/quote]

Don’t worry, he played in the playoffs the year I picked and put up 28-17-2-1-2 on 63% shooting. And played enough the next year to finish 10th in MVP voting.

Just some typical modern load management, all the way back in 76-77