Free agency starts / reported signings (merged)

[Surferdad]

So Saric finally joins the Warriors.

That does not disappoint me all that much.  Saric may bounce back, he is still young enough, but he has not really done much of anything for several injury riddled seasons.

I think a trade for a bench PF/C (with the TPE and picks) is the more likely avenue to fill this role at this point, although I would not be against bringing in Wood on a min contract.  He will probably end up in MIA or LAL though.  So be it.

We aren’t using the TPE and picks to get someone this year.  Not happening.  If a trade nets us another bench player, it will be because we traded Brogdon for two players.  We’re not going above the second apron.

We don’t need to use the full TPE. We could get someone for around $5 million then cut either Champagnie or Kornet. The net would be only adding about $3 million.  Not suggesting, we just add $6 million to the cap.

It is not likely. But this is something that can be worked out.

But that’s what the MLE is for, not the TPE.

If we use some or all of the MLE, we hard cap ourselves.  If we use the TPE, we are not hard capped.  Both are options.  I see a few options we could go after with the TPE that seem to me more likely than getting a useful bench PF at this point the the MLE:

Isaiah Stewart      $5.3M
Jalen Smith          $5.0M
Jaden McDaniels    $3.9M
Precious Achiuwa  $4.4M
Jon. Kuminga       $6.0M

Again, my idea is to trade for them using picks and the TPE, but also waive Champagnie or Kornet to stay at 14 roster spots and reduce the net impact to the cap.  To me, this is a perfectly viable option.  They probably won't do anything with it but to me, swapping Champagnie in particular for an actual useful PF, for the cost of some picks, would be a really good value transaction.

If I was Brad, I would see if Detroit would trade Stewart for Pritchard+a 2024 first. Then just look to add a 3rd string PG to replace him (and keep under the 2nd apron). Stewart would be a great fit here.

I like Vermont Green’s deal better because Pritchard is an ok 3rd guard. Really like the idea of Beef Stew on this team, with Jaden McD my 2nd choice from VG’s list of PFs.

[BitterJim]

So Saric finally joins the Warriors.

That does not disappoint me all that much.  Saric may bounce back, he is still young enough, but he has not really done much of anything for several injury riddled seasons.

I think a trade for a bench PF/C (with the TPE and picks) is the more likely avenue to fill this role at this point, although I would not be against bringing in Wood on a min contract.  He will probably end up in MIA or LAL though.  So be it.

We aren’t using the TPE and picks to get someone this year.  Not happening.  If a trade nets us another bench player, it will be because we traded Brogdon for two players.  We’re not going above the second apron.

We don’t need to use the full TPE. We could get someone for around $5 million then cut either Champagnie or Kornet. The net would be only adding about $3 million.  Not suggesting, we just add $6 million to the cap.

It is not likely. But this is something that can be worked out.

But that’s what the MLE is for, not the TPE.

If we use some or all of the MLE, we hard cap ourselves.  If we use the TPE, we are not hard capped.  Both are options.  I see a few options we could go after with the TPE that seem to me more likely than getting a useful bench PF at this point the the MLE:

Isaiah Stewart      $5.3M
Jalen Smith          $5.0M
Jaden McDaniels    $3.9M
Precious Achiuwa  $4.4M
Jon. Kuminga       $6.0M

Again, my idea is to trade for them using picks and the TPE, but also waive Champagnie or Kornet to stay at 14 roster spots and reduce the net impact to the cap.  To me, this is a perfectly viable option.  They probably won't do anything with it but to me, swapping Champagnie in particular for an actual useful PF, for the cost of some picks, would be a really good value transaction.

If I was Brad, I would see if Detroit would trade Stewart for Pritchard+a 2024 first. Then just look to add a 3rd string PG to replace him (and keep under the 2nd apron). Stewart would be a great fit here.

I like Vermont Green’s deal better because Pritchard is an ok 3rd guard. Really like the idea of Beef Stew on this team, with Jaden McD my 2nd choice from VG’s list of PFs.

It'd be very hard to keep a team like that under the 2nd apron, which seems like a non-starter for Brad. Pritchard making ~$4 million means he probably has to go to bring in salary above whatever our MLE max is

[Celtics2021]

Paul Reed signs a 3 year, $23 million offer sheet with Utah.  Years 2 and 3 guarantee if his team makes the conference semifinals this year.  So it likely won’t guarantee with Utah, but if Philly matches, they’re probably signing up for the full three years.

Also includes a no trade clause for first year. Ainge is a genius.

The no trade aspect is true for any RFA offer sheet that’s matched.  If we matched for Grant, it would have been the same thing.

Are you sure? I thought the matching team had to wait a year before they could trade to the team that made the offer, but were free to trade to anyone else after January 15.  That was the rule previously. I was not aware that the new CBA changed this rule.

I think they must have changed it in the new CBA if the Paul Reed trade restriction was accurately reported.  He’s not eligible for a no-trade clause otherwise.

[celticsclay]

Can we end the narrative that vet free agents won't sign with cold weather teams (Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee ) or teams with high tax rates (GSW, LAL) or teams that go seven deep (all of the above)?

I think we end up with dumpster dives because that's Brad's approach.  When he does pursue free agents with a market for services, we usually lose out.  Maybe his pitch is bad, or guys don't trust inexperienced coaches.

I thought that narrative was pretty dead after the hayward, Horford and Walker signings. Who still says that?

[Roy H.]

Can we end the narrative that vet free agents won't sign with cold weather teams (Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee ) or teams with high tax rates (GSW, LAL) or teams that go seven deep (all of the above)?

I think we end up with dumpster dives because that's Brad's approach.  When he does pursue free agents with a market for services, we usually lose out.  Maybe his pitch is bad, or guys don't trust inexperienced coaches.

I thought that narrative was pretty dead after the hayward, Horford and Walker signings. Who still says that?

Read through the "does Brad suck at free agency" thread.  Lots and lots of narratives about how we're uniquely disadvantaged to compete for vets.  All the theories I mentioned have been argued.

[Surferdad]

So Saric finally joins the Warriors.

That does not disappoint me all that much.  Saric may bounce back, he is still young enough, but he has not really done much of anything for several injury riddled seasons.

I think a trade for a bench PF/C (with the TPE and picks) is the more likely avenue to fill this role at this point, although I would not be against bringing in Wood on a min contract.  He will probably end up in MIA or LAL though.  So be it.

We aren’t using the TPE and picks to get someone this year.  Not happening.  If a trade nets us another bench player, it will be because we traded Brogdon for two players.  We’re not going above the second apron.

We don’t need to use the full TPE. We could get someone for around $5 million then cut either Champagnie or Kornet. The net would be only adding about $3 million.  Not suggesting, we just add $6 million to the cap.

It is not likely. But this is something that can be worked out.

But that’s what the MLE is for, not the TPE.

If we use some or all of the MLE, we hard cap ourselves.  If we use the TPE, we are not hard capped.  Both are options.  I see a few options we could go after with the TPE that seem to me more likely than getting a useful bench PF at this point the the MLE:

Isaiah Stewart      $5.3M
Jalen Smith          $5.0M
Jaden McDaniels    $3.9M
Precious Achiuwa  $4.4M
Jon. Kuminga       $6.0M

Again, my idea is to trade for them using picks and the TPE, but also waive Champagnie or Kornet to stay at 14 roster spots and reduce the net impact to the cap.  To me, this is a perfectly viable option.  They probably won't do anything with it but to me, swapping Champagnie in particular for an actual useful PF, for the cost of some picks, would be a really good value transaction.

If I was Brad, I would see if Detroit would trade Stewart for Pritchard+a 2024 first. Then just look to add a 3rd string PG to replace him (and keep under the 2nd apron). Stewart would be a great fit here.

I like Vermont Green’s deal better because Pritchard is an ok 3rd guard. Really like the idea of Beef Stew on this team, with Jaden McD my 2nd choice from VG’s list of PFs.

It'd be very hard to keep a team like that under the 2nd apron, which seems like a non-starter for Brad. Pritchard making ~$4 million means he probably has to go to bring in salary above whatever our MLE max is

So TPEs are pretty useless for teams trying to save money.

[Kernewek]

Paul Reed signs a 3 year, $23 million offer sheet with Utah.  Years 2 and 3 guarantee if his team makes the conference semifinals this year.  So it likely won’t guarantee with Utah, but if Philly matches, they’re probably signing up for the full three years.

Also includes a no trade clause for first year. Ainge is a genius.

The no trade aspect is true for any RFA offer sheet that’s matched.  If we matched for Grant, it would have been the same thing.

Are you sure? I thought the matching team had to wait a year before they could trade to the team that made the offer, but were free to trade to anyone else after January 15.  That was the rule previously. I was not aware that the new CBA changed this rule.

I think they must have changed it in the new CBA if the Paul Reed trade restriction was accurately reported.  He’s not eligible for a no-trade clause otherwise.

You're both conflating it a bit, but the rule hasn't changed. if Philly matches the original offer Reed has an effective NTC for a year, and can't be traded to the Jazz at all. Per Larry Coon:

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

[Who]

Small trade woj reporting

The Atlanta Hawks are trading TyTy Washington, Usman Garuba,  Rudy Gay and a second-round pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Patty Mills, sources tell ESPN. Hawks save $4.5M in the deal.

Patty Mills on the move again. Exactly what Atlanta need. Another undersized PG.

They gave two young players and a 2nd round pick to get an old undersized PG that they don't need. Pure cap dump. Wasn't Ty Ty a 1st round pick? Huh, so was Garuba.

Meanwhile, how many players does OKC have now? I had them at 21 last time round if I remember correctly. So 23 now. Rudy Gay will surely get waived. I wonder what they will do with the other two. They do not have enough roster spaces for all these young end of bench guys.

[Who]

There is also an update on the Kuzma contract. It is not $102mil. It is $90mil guaranteed and $6mil in unlikely bonuses.

Reporting with @ShamsCharania via league sources: Kyle Kuzma's new contract is now official, and it is a straight four-year contract, with no team or player options, and it's worth a total of $90 million guaranteed, with $6 million of unlikely bonuses all tied to team performance

It is also a declining contract to maximize cap flexability in future years.

Reporting with @ShamsCharania, via league sources: The new deal also includes a 15% trade bonus, and the guaranteed salaries descend year to year. The salaries below are rounded:
2023-24: $25.6 million
2024-25: $23.5 million
2025-26: $21.5 million
2026-27: $19.4 million

I'd still only value Kuzma around the MLE. So still a bad contract in my book but not as bad as we first thought.

[celticinorlando]

John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

[Celtics2021]

John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

[Vermont Green]

So Saric finally joins the Warriors.

That does not disappoint me all that much.  Saric may bounce back, he is still young enough, but he has not really done much of anything for several injury riddled seasons.

I think a trade for a bench PF/C (with the TPE and picks) is the more likely avenue to fill this role at this point, although I would not be against bringing in Wood on a min contract.  He will probably end up in MIA or LAL though.  So be it.

We aren’t using the TPE and picks to get someone this year.  Not happening.  If a trade nets us another bench player, it will be because we traded Brogdon for two players.  We’re not going above the second apron.

We don’t need to use the full TPE. We could get someone for around $5 million then cut either Champagnie or Kornet. The net would be only adding about $3 million.  Not suggesting, we just add $6 million to the cap.

It is not likely. But this is something that can be worked out.

But that’s what the MLE is for, not the TPE.

If we use some or all of the MLE, we hard cap ourselves.  If we use the TPE, we are not hard capped.  Both are options.  I see a few options we could go after with the TPE that seem to me more likely than getting a useful bench PF at this point the the MLE:

Isaiah Stewart      $5.3M
Jalen Smith          $5.0M
Jaden McDaniels    $3.9M
Precious Achiuwa  $4.4M
Jon. Kuminga       $6.0M

Again, my idea is to trade for them using picks and the TPE, but also waive Champagnie or Kornet to stay at 14 roster spots and reduce the net impact to the cap.  To me, this is a perfectly viable option.  They probably won't do anything with it but to me, swapping Champagnie in particular for an actual useful PF, for the cost of some picks, would be a really good value transaction.

If I was Brad, I would see if Detroit would trade Stewart for Pritchard+a 2024 first. Then just look to add a 3rd string PG to replace him (and keep under the 2nd apron). Stewart would be a great fit here.

I like Vermont Green’s deal better because Pritchard is an ok 3rd guard. Really like the idea of Beef Stew on this team, with Jaden McD my 2nd choice from VG’s list of PFs.

It'd be very hard to keep a team like that under the 2nd apron, which seems like a non-starter for Brad. Pritchard making ~$4 million means he probably has to go to bring in salary above whatever our MLE max is

I don't think that is necessarily true although I will admit that the exact figures are hard to confirm.  The consensus of the experts on here is that based on our current 14 signed players, two of which are non-guaranteed, we have between $3M and $4M of room before we get to the second apron.  Again, I admit that I don't know the exact value.  So if we waive Champagnie or Kornet, that fees up $2.0M to $2.5M more or in the range of $5M-$6m.  That space can be used either with a MLE signing (which would hard cap us) or could be used by trading using the TPE (which would not hard cap us).  Trading Pritchard ($4M) and replacing him with a vet min contract is another way to free up additional salary in the event that we hard cap ourselves by using the MLE or if we decide not to exceed the second apron.

So I believe that a trade, using a portion of the TPE, along with waiving Champagnie and/or Kornet would work and allow us to stay under the second apron.  But keep in mind that if we don't use the MLE, we are not forced to stay under the second apron.  There is an unresolved debate as to whether or not there is a benefit to the Celtics to stay under this.  And even if we are over it to start the season, salary can be manipulated during the season to get back under before the end of the season.

There have been several posts that attempt to break down how much of the $5M MLE we could use and stay within the hard cap limitation.  If we can do something with the MLE, then we could also do something with the TPE, but again, using some or all of the TPE does not hard cap us.  The Celtics can choose to stay under the second apron, but would not be forced to.  The MLE options are very limited at this point. Considering using the TPE opens up more options, and in my mind, some better ones.  If you want to trade Pritchard too, that is fine, I would prefer to try and keep Pritchard, and I would prefer not to be hard capped.

[radiohead]

John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

He could be a nice end of the bench piece? Specially if JD doesn’t show much in the summer league.

[ChillyWilly]

John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

He could be a nice end of the bench piece? Specially if JD doesn’t show much in the summer league.

He is 1000% washed

[Vermont Green]

John wall working out for teams in Vegas.

I wonder if the Celtics have any interest

I’m sure they’ll go to a workout, but I don’t think they’ll go beyond that.

Brad Steven's track record is that he tends not to go for these over the hill veteran types.  There will be many that no doubt will advocate for him and then complain if he ends up signing in MIA or something.  I can't imagine he would be any help at all to the Celtics.  But brace yourself for the "it was dumb to sign Banton, we could have had Wall"; "Brad is horrible at FA"; "the Celtics are cheap and don't care about winning"; posts starting soon and continuing through the season.